22-250 IS good for deer hunting!

[taylorce1]

Obviously trolling here in the original post however I'll play along for a little. I don't know for sure if the .22 caliber bullet is banned in 80% of the States but it is here in CO, the smallest bullet I can use is a 70 grain .243 caliber rifle that must produce 1000 ft-lbs @ 100 yards. If the .22 caliber center fire rifle is legal where you live and hunt then I have no problems with people using it for hunting.

The main problem with the .22-250 since that is the cartridge chosen in the OP is the twist rate. 1:14 or 1:12 may or may not stabalize a 60 grain bullet again since that is what the OP stated he is using. To me 60 grains is on the marginal end of a bullet that will hold together at the speeds that a .22-250 can push it. The only real choice for me if I had to use this caliber is the 60 grain Nosler Partition. If you are going to use a .22 a premium bullet is a must Barnes, Nosler, and Swift are three that come to mind that offer bullets capable of holding together for use on deer, heavy match grade bullets for me are not an option.

There is no doubt to me that a properly placed .22 center fire bullet will kill a deer or any other animal. However the bullet selection and twist rates for these cartridges make it a far from ideal selection for me. I'll leave the .22's for targets and varmints and take at least my .243 Win with 95-100 grain bullets for deer sized game.

[treefarmernc]

This post was not meant for trolling but only to educate any body else wondering about the capabilities of the cartridge. When searching TFL I saw the question of whether or not the 22-250 was adequate for deer and then the asker being bashed for even considering it. I do wish I had originally included a little more about proper bullet choices ( I may edit it in now) but my original thought was to get across that the cartridge has been used in a large scale for deer successfully without any problem.

[Fremmer]

What I have written is not merely an opinion that I have blindly come up with, but a collaboration of experiences of a very large group of hunters spanding all ages and levels of expertise. IT WAS A LAW that we could not use larger than .22 for deer hunting and not a choice therefore the conclusions were born out of necessity.

Yeah, and none of 'em wanted to tell you about those times they tracked for miles on end, or searched (but never found) their wounded deer.

Thanks for the education, though.

[Daryl]

Except for the following, I agree with you. I'd also keep shots a bit shy of 300 yards, but that's my opinion.

A 22-250 shot to the shoulder region will have the same effect as other calibers.

If the shoulder shot is stopping a 22-250, then this simply isn't true. A 270, 30-06, or 7mm mag will break the shoulder and keep going on through a deer in most cases.

I've shot the 22-250 quite a bit, and I know what it's capable of. I also know that my .243 shoots faster by several hundred fps with the same weight bullet, and I wouldn't use it with the same lightweight bullets generally found in .22 caliber.

Those 50-70 grain .22 caliber bullets are perfectly capable of taking deer with well places shots, but they won't do as well when bone is hit, and a little extra penetration is needed. Every caliber/cartridge has it's limitations, and each has different capabilities. As long as the shooter recognized and honors the limitations and capabilities of his/her chosen cartridge, then all should go well.

For me, I hunt a lot of open country with big canyons to shoot across at times, and I'll stick with the 7mm mag for those uses.

Daryl

[treefarmernc]

Tracking wounded deer has happened in the 22-250 camp but no more that in the 30-06 camp. It is simply not a problem, at least no more than with any other caliber. As I have already said, I have hunted with other calibers and along side other hunters and clubs using larger guns and then with my unusual situation of having to use .22 caliber in my home county has giving me more insight into this subject than most other people. Hunter error is what leads to that problem not it being a 22-250.

[taylorce1]

The .22-250 or any other .224 caliber center fire cartridge is marginal at best for deer sized game. Deer vary in body size by region what may work well for you in NC may not work in Northern parts of the United States and Canada, as well as out in the Mid West and Western United States for white tail deer. To make such a blanket statement as you did is just asking for an argument intentional or not. Before the laws changed in your county were pistol cartridge rifles and shotguns legal during your firearm season?

Bullet selection and shot placement are paramount regardless of what ever caliber rifle you choose. Again some of the bullets mentioned throughout this topic have either been the wrong construction or would fail to stabilize in the .22-250. And a bullet that will work in a .222 such as the 50 grain mentioned would more than likely fail in a .22-250 due to the velocity differences unless loaded down to a .222 Rem velocities.

There is just far less places to go wrong with larger calibers than there is in smaller ones as far as bullet selection is concerned. Especially when you use factory ammunition and most of them have the game use recommendations on the box. Plus the most common bullet found in .22 center fire cartridges is 55 grains and bullets for the .243 and larger calibers usually are found in 80 grains or heavier and tailored to the deer or elk hunter not the varmint hunter. When was the last time you walked in to your local big box store and found 53 gr Barnes TSX, 60 gr Nosler Partitions, or 75 gr Swift Scirocco loaded in .22 caliber cartridges for deer hunting?

Not one poster here has argued that it will not kill a deer, just that there are far better choices when it comes to deer hunting.

[treefarmernc]

Daryl, Again as I said in post #25 I was talking about the shoulder region or the kill zone, front part of the deer (chest, lung, and heart area). My 60gr SP usually will penetrate the shoulder, although I have seen evidence of the bullet “exploding” when hitting harder parts of the shoulder but there is sill more than enough penetration and/or damage to take the deer down on the spot. I have seen more of this when making spinal shots witch only adds to the effectiveness of shot. The shoulder shot has not been a problem. I personally try to put my shots just behind the shoulder or in the chest if possible but am still confident in taking a straight shoulder shot if needed.

[treefarmernc]

Before the laws changed in your county were pistol cartridge rifles and shotguns legal during your firearm season?

No, rifle could be used larger than .22 including pistol cartridges. Yes shot guns was and is still legal. The law even covered black powder season in witch we could use only black powder shotguns as the BP rifles are, of coarse, larger than.22 (stupid, yea I know). Let me add that I was not a supporter of the law.

Again some of the bullets mentioned throughout this topic have either been the wrong construction or would fail to stabilize in the .22-250. And a bullet that will work in a .222 such as the 50 grain mentioned would more than likely fail in a .22-250 due to the velocity differences unless loaded down to a .222 Rem velocities.

I have suggested the use of 55-70gr. I have 1-1.5” groups at 100yrds. And 2.5”-3” groups at 200 with my 55gr and 60gr soft points.

Not one poster here has argued that it will not kill a deer, just that there are far better choices when it comes to deer hunting.

And I have not once said that the 22-250 is the best or better than any other caliber, only that it can be and has been efficient at killing deer.

[davlandrum]

If legal where you are, go for it.

It is a legal deer round in Oregon, but I am not going to rush out and buy one for deer hunting...

[treefarmernc]

Past success with a 22-250 does not guarantee future success. Forward looking statements about what has worked in the past are certain to fail in the future. Statistical reversion to the mean is a natural law. I’m thinking, 'Dude, use a bigger gun

What works in the past or now will not work in the future is what I am taking from this???? What is going to change this? Will the deer start growing Kevlar hair or something? I am not talking about the economy here just the ability of a 22-250 to kill deer. This will not change. A bullet entering the body of a deer will always have the same effect.

There's a statistical axiom in medicine that says 50% of the people who fall from a height of 25' onto a hard surface will die. Adjust the height up or down and the percentages scale accordingly. It is the same for factors determining the suitability of hunting rounds. Excusing exceptions and considering the averages, a bigger round is better.

If I were kicking deer off a cliff I might give some credit to that statement. You are clearly missing the message of this post. I have had an extraordinary amount of experience with using the 22-250 for deer hunting and the simple fact is that the 22-250 is adequate to harvest deer with. I have not just shot a couple of deer successfully then called it a success. This conclusion is of sound evidence obtained over a long length of time and including a large number and varied group of test subjects (hunters and deer).

There is always the variables of life to contend with, As you stated earlier through the story of the deer that was able to run off after being shot in the heart, there is an uncontrollable element to the hunt as well as most things in life. When it comes to deer hunting however, using a 22-250 (properly equipped and deployed) plays no more part in increasing or provoking the variables than any other rifle.
Last, I would like to add that I have not said any thing against using larger calibers. I only point out the 22-250 being adequate for deer hunting.

[ZeroJunk]

If a man wants to hunt deer with a 22/250 he doesn't have to justify it to anybody but himself.

But, you are kidding yourself if you think that eventually if you shoot enough of them you won't lose one that you would have gotten with a 270 or 30/06, and you are kidding yourself if you think you won't eventually make a bad shot.

[flyguyskt]

i will say only this...i have killed dozens of antelope with the 22-250. but yes they are smaller than a deer... never lost one though and usually dead within 25yrds

[phil mcwilliam]

I once stalked within 50 yards of a water buffalo bull. Using a termite nest as a rest I shot the feeding buffalo behind the ear & it dropped like a sack of potatoes with a single 55grain bullet from my 22-250. While I wouldn't recommend the 22-250 as a buffalo rifle, I have also shot over a dozen fallow deer & 3 red deer with it, together with hundreds of pigs & goats. I have never lost a deer when hunting with the 22-250, although 2 deer were hit poorly & did need follow up shots. You will certainly get by with using a 22-250 on deer, but these days I prefer to use my 308. I find a 30 caliber rifle my prefered option for deer hunting, especially if a stag of a lifetime happens to show itself at 300 yards & there is a slight wind blowing.

[pilothunter]

If a man wants to hunt deer with a 22/250 he doesn't have to justify it to anybody but himself.

But, you are kidding yourself if you think that eventually if you shoot enough of them you won't lose one that you would have gotten with a 270 or 30/06, and you are kidding yourself if you think you won't eventually make a bad shot.

Well said.

[hogdogs]

I am not well versed enuff to take on the efficacy argument of a round based on various energy type measurements. Our smaller specimens of florida white tail are likely not much bigger than a good annie goat. I wouldn't choose anything under a .243 and only if I thought I had all escape trails predetermined for easier tracking. I prefer my minimums to be the .270 bolt gun and the .30-30 in lever for my close in shots. I just can't imagine me opting for a .22 class round for white tail.
Brent

[Daryl]

Treefarmernc,

I wasn't arguing the ability of the 22-250 to take deer in the hands of a competent shooter that knows his/her rifle's limitations.

I'm just saying the .22 caliber bullets aren't the same as bigger bullets, and they'll perform differently on game at times, depending on the shot.

I have a .17 Rem that I've no doubt is perfectly capable of taking deer with a well placed shot. I wouldn't use it on a shoulder shot, or a head shot, but through the neck or behind the shoulder would kill a deer without any trouble.

I know of one fella who's daughter killed a nice sized caribou bull with a .17 Rem, one shot did the trick.

Even so, most would agree that it's light for deer sized game, and I'm not planning on using it for that. It's intended for smaller predators like the coyote and bobcat, and that's what I use it for.

I've never had to track a deer yet that I shot with a rifle (archery hunting is a different story, of course). When I shoot, they generally drop in their tracks. Worste case, they drop within a few feet. I shoot them in the right place with a bullet that I know will do the job, and that from a cartridge that launches that bullet with sufficient speed and accuracy to do the job.

As long as the shooter knows his rifle/cartridge/load/bullet combination's abilities and limitations, can shoot it well, and knows where to place the bullet for a clean kill, then there should be no problem.

Daryl

[taylorce1]

I have suggested the use of 55-70gr. I have 1-1.5” groups at 100yrds. And 2.5”-3” groups at 200 with my 55gr and 60gr soft points.

Yes but only after the fact, your first post didn’t mention anything about bullet selection until other posters brought it up and you edited your OP later.

I have had an extraordinary amount of experience with using the 22-250 for deer hunting and the simple fact is that the 22-250 is adequate to harvest deer with.

Most of us who post here with regularity have an "extraordinary amount of experience" in one form or another with various calibers on a wider variety of game than just deer. I again say that what works for you isn’t what most of us consider adequate for deer sized game, will it work yes but it is far from a preferred cartridge.

Plus what kind of accuracy are you getting with 70 grain bullets you mentioned? An unaltered Remington M700 usually has a 1:14 twist rate and again usually will not stabilize a 70 grain bullet. I’m not saying there are not exceptions to the rule but a 70 grain .224 caliber are usually a little on the long side for such a slow twist. Granted I’ve never used a .22-250 rifle other than shooting a friends a few times. I was impressed with the accuracy and explosiveness of the bullet on prairie dogs and coyotes with bullets up to 55 grains which leads me to believe it, is far from a good choice for deer.

And of coarse I have missed, witch brings me to the only disadvantage of deer hunting with the 22-250. It does take less to deflect the bullet, such as twigs and stout weeds accounting for one of my misses ( I believe).

This is another statement that has me a little worried. Grass, weeds, and twigs all deflect even the heaviest bullets, there is no such thing as a “brush buster” cartridge. The amount of deflection is usually dependent on the distance from target that the deflection starts at. Plus are you 100% sure that your one "deflected bullet" or any other of your "misses" didn’t wound the deer? Little bullets tend to leave little blood to trail. My real problem with cartridges such as the .22-250 is either they work with dramatic results resulting in spectacular kills or they work very poorly sometimes resulting in a lengthy tracking process or lost animal.

Like other posters have said, if it is legal then no problem. However I will throw arguments out there against it. Especially to someone who might be reading this post and considering using the .22-250 for deer hunting, without weighing all the pros and cons.

[Kmar40]

It is NOT legal for deer hunting in about 80% of the US!

I've only lived in 5 states but it was legal in all five. I'm doubting your off the cuff stats.

[treefarmernc]

If a man wants to hunt deer with a 22/250 he doesn't have to justify it to anybody but himself.

But, you are kidding yourself if you think that eventually if you shoot enough of them you won't lose one that you would have gotten with a 270 or 30/06, and you are kidding yourself if you think you won't eventually make a bad shot.

How many people do you know who use a 22-250 for deer hunting on a regular basis? How many times have you taken deer with this cartridge? How much experience do you have with using this cartridge for deer? If you had read the first post, I admitted that I have made a bad shot. The shot was bad because I made it bad, would not had mattered if it was the 22-250 or 30-06. Are you ignorant enough to believe that larger calibers will keep you from making a bad shot? I hate to tell you but people make bad shots all the time with all calibers. I had to use this cartridge for nearly 20 years. A whole county of hunters had to use this caliber for more than 20 years. Hunters visiting from other counties and states came to hunt on our game lands with this cartridge. I did not support the law, but because of it I have more knowledge of the 22-250 as a deer rifle than most will have. This is my favorite rifle because of its versatility and is the one I choose when hunting open areas and fields. It IS a good deer rifle.

[Nnobby45]

Buy saying shoulder region I was referring to the front area or kill zone of the deer. And yes, the chance is there for the bullet to explode when hitting bone resulting in the same out come...dead deer.

Yes, no question. A bullet that disintegrates and doesn't penetrate into the vital organs will kill the deer-- eventually. Same result. Dead deer, but none of the suffering deers' meat will end up in the freezer.

The "kill zone" of the deer is the heart, lungs, and major vessel area of the deer. It's required that the bullet actually get there--not just hit the mark like it was a paper target. Again, there's a reason why small caliber CF's are outlawed in many states.


Yes, in skilled hands, the .223 or .22-250 can certainly kill deer. A skilled shooter with such a caliber is more effective than an unskilled one with a heavier caliber. But everyone thinks they're capable of "placing the bullet" perfectly to circumnavigate the caliber's lack of penetration and light bullet. It's always the other guys who don't hit the deer right.


If your patience and marksmanship skills are up to the task, then you're likely the exception to those who wound deer that would have been humanely killed with an adequate caliber.

[ZeroJunk]

Are you ignorant enough to believe that larger calibers will keep you from making a bad shot?

Where did that come from?

I have no doubt that you are smarter than the collective intelligence from decades of sportsman whose general consensus is that the 22 caliber centerfires are not the best choice for deer.

[ChiefMuzz]

It IS a good deer rifle.

is quite different from

The purpose of this thread is to inform you that the 22-250 WILL kill deer the same as most popular deer calibers with has been proven here with normal healthy sized whitetail deer.

I think you are seriously confusing the ability of the 22-250 to kill deer with it being a good dear gun. You seem to be quite stubborn on pushing the idea on everyone that the 22-250 is as good as other rifles. Anecdotal evidence presented as such really means little. Yes the 22-250 can kill deer. So can a knife, car, and poison dart. Just because something can kill a deer does not make it a good instrument to kill. You may have years and years of experience in making efficient kills with your rifle and bullet combination. However that does not mean a 22-250 is a good deer rifle. I personally have hunted with a .243 for over 12 years as my exclusive deer rifle. I loved it. I never had a deer run more than 35 yards after I hit it and most chest shots made the contents unrecognizable when I opened the deer up. However I spent alot of time practicing with my rifle and knew what shots I could and couldn't take. I hit deer out to 275 yards and even threaded a few needles through brush. Does this make the .243 a good deer rifle, no, but it worked for me. If you want to post and support the idea that the 22-250 is adequate for killing deer, then please do, but be aware that it is not the same as a 30-06 or 270 in terms of efficiency and power. Simple mathematics will tell you that. Also be aware that someone who is new to deer hunting might not be able to differentiate the truth from your idea of how well a 22-250 can kill a deer. A good deer rifle is one that you've practiced with and can efficiently kill a deer with and that might be different for everyone.

[MLeake]

Odd, it's pretty standard in the southeast. I have several friends who swear by it. For some of the smaller deer in the southeast, a .270 or .30-06 can result in a lot of bloodshot meat.

[treefarmernc]

Yes, no question. A bullet that disintegrates and doesn't penetrate into the vital organs will kill the deer-- eventually. Same result. Dead deer, but none of the suffering deers' meat will end up in the freezer.

When a 22-250 bullet strikes the shoulder bone, the force of the blow (explosion) is driven into the chest cavity, causing sever damage to internal organs. As I have said before I hunted in an area in which everybody hunted with these types of rifles and I have seen first hand what kind of damage is done from these kinds of shots.

I have no doubt that you are smarter than the collective intelligence from decades of sportsman whose general consensus is that the 22 caliber centerfires are not the best choice for deer.

I am not saying that I am smarter than the collective. I am only defending the experience that I and the others in our unique situation have gained; witch is a situation most others have not experienced. We have used (Successfully) .223, 22-250, and 220 swift for deer hunting, while most others only know them as varmint rounds.

I think you are seriously confusing the ability of the 22-250 to kill deer with it being a good dear gun. You seem to be quite stubborn on pushing the idea on everyone that the 22-250 is as good as other rifles.

I define a good deer gun as one that efficiently kills deer. The 22-250 is efficient at killing deer; the 30-06 is also efficient at killing deer. In that respect the 22-250 is the same. The 30-06 will make a bigger whole and destroy the organs more but not to the effect of discrediting the 22-250 as an efficient deer killer which is what I have been trying to get across. IF I was to claim the 22-250 was just as good as larger calibers in every way then I would be able to use it for elk or moose hunting which is obviously not correct. I do not claim that the 22-250 is equal to the ballistics of the 30-06 (or other larger calibers) but only can kill deer as reliably,especially the weight range I have mentioned before, up to 220lbs.

[flyboy14]

55 grain hornady ILSP, pushed by a load of varget. Killed a lot of deer with it. If you don't like it, don't try it. Legal here, and legal in Nebraska. 223 is legal here.