muzzle loader ? - Page 4

rebs · October 14, 2015, 06:06 AM

I seen there is a small screw or plug right under where the nipple it, should that be taken out to clean in there ?

mehavey · October 14, 2015, 06:11 AM

Yes... That's the cleanout screw and gives you a straight shot through
the flash channel and into the ignition chamber with a pipe cleaner.

Put a drop of BreakFree/Synthetic Motor oil in its threads after cleaning.

rebs · October 15, 2015, 06:34 PM

I cannot turn that small clean out screw ? How much trouble am I in not being able to get it out ?

Which ram rod do you guys recommend for a range rod, I have seen hollow and solid aluminum and fiberglass ?

Powder flask, which is preferred the brass or plastic polymer ?

FrontierGander · October 15, 2015, 07:02 PM

brass

Dont worry about the clean out screw, they are worthless and seize up all of the time. Just remove the nipple while you flush the barrel clean.

mehavey · October 15, 2015, 08:42 PM

SCREW:
The cleanout screw is neither worthless, nor does it bind up. It give you straight cleanout
access through the critical flash channel.

Oil the threads before shooting, clean/oil the threads after shooting (like everything else
on the rifle) and install finger (not gorilla) tight. It will last you a lifetime of shooting.
Now If someone ignored the screw, then soak inside and out with penetrating oil/Kroil
after each cleaning session and periodically try again.

FLASKS:
Any flask will do (I prefer traditional brass) to fill the powder measure, but use the
measure to fill the barrel (not the flask).

RODS:
Get/use a flexible fiberglass loading rod,
https://www.buffaloarms.com/Muzzlelo....aspx?CAT=5591
and a one-piece aluminum cleaning rod --
w/ an integral muzzle guide made specifically for muskets.
http://winchestersutler.com/ShotLoad.html#MCROD

FrontierGander · October 15, 2015, 09:03 PM

completely worthless! Ive never touched one in all the years of muzzleloading.

mehavey · October 15, 2015, 09:08 PM

Five rifles (those w/ cleanout screws) and counting. (Several others without)
Not one ever bound up, and all made cleaning a breeze.

If the OP can get his free'd up, he's ahead of the game from that point on.

maillemaker · October 15, 2015, 09:24 PM

I'd say you certainly *can* clean the fire channel without removing the screw, it's just easier if you do it.

Steve

Pahoo · October 16, 2015, 10:20 AM

Quote:

If the OP can get his free'd up, he's ahead of the game from that point on

The only channel screw I trust is the one that on a "new" rifle. For the most part, I wish they were not there and yes, I have broken enough of them to learn a lesson. The slotted heads are the worse. ......

Quote:

I'd say you certainly *can* clean the fire channel without removing the screw, it's just easier if you do it.

Totally agree and can be done very effectively once you get a technique that works for you. ....

Another thing to watch out for, is when the threads of the screw, come into contact with the threads of the nipple. ....

Be Safe !!!

rebs · October 16, 2015, 04:27 PM

How do you clean the fire channel without removing the screw ?

I found out today that all #11 nipples are not the same, they have different threads. I bought a T/C #11 today and when I got home to put it in found out its the wrong threads, I need a 6MMx75 for investarms.

How do you know when you need a new nipple ? Or do you change them after so many rounds etc ?

mehavey · October 16, 2015, 04:39 PM

Nipples generally need replacing for two reasons:

- The flash hole through the bottom grows in diameter to the point that ignition becomes unreliable.*
- The owner "dry fires" w/o a cap and gradually peens the nipple wider to where it's hard to seat a cap.

* Sometimes nippls are supplied in which the flash hole is wide open (as for re-enactors). But if it works, use it.
postscript: If you can, replace the #11 nipple with a musket nipple -- and use musket caps (heavy-duty ignition surety)

If you choose not to disassemble the rifle barrel each cleanining (I don't), the barrel's flash channel can be cleaned without removing the cleanout plug by putting one end of a foot-long piece of Tygon tubing tightly on the nipple, and the other end in a pot of hot soapy water. Using a tight patch, pump the soapy water back and forth through the nipple/flash channel and it'll be OK.**

**(Don't forget to then remove/clean/oil the nipple itself (etc) afterwards.)

maillemaker · October 16, 2015, 07:01 PM

Yup, like Mehavey, said, you can clean the barrel by flushing. I think mechanical cleaning is more sure, but I don't do a complete teardown every clean either.

Steve

Pahoo · October 16, 2015, 07:09 PM

Quote:

How do you clean the fire channel without removing the screw ?

I soak, flush and brush. .....

I use Q-tips, pipe cleaners and I have a small round brush that I can bend around corners. When you flush and pump a non-wooden rod in down the bore the vent in the nipple created a high pressure venturi and it does a pretty good job of flushing the channel. Also the channel hole, into the main channel is not as large as you might think. It too creates a venturi effect into the main powder chamber. ...

Once you have thoroughly cleaned this channel, from neglect a Pipe-Cleaner with some Ballistol or equal, will keep it so. ....

Quote:

How do you know when you need a new nipple ?

When it tells you, there is a problem starting. ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

rebs · October 16, 2015, 08:43 PM

I forgot to say in my last post. I bought some .010 patches and I was able to start the ball in the barrel with a hard push with my thumb then it pushed down quite nicely with the ramrod. Is that too easy and I should stay with the .015 patches ? I mean I really had to push with my thumb and with the ramrod it went all the way down just pushing it, I didn't have to tap it down.

mehavey · October 16, 2015, 09:47 PM

Try going back to the 15-thou patch.
It should take a light tap with a rawhide hammer/block of wood to get flush w/ the muzzle to start.
Then smack the short-starter with the palm of your hand to get it further down to the 4-5" point.
Finally short strokes with the ramrod to get it down to the powder.

Patched-ball should be "smoothly stiff" in seating.

BREAK BREAK: Have you tried Minieballs yet? They start freely, take no patch,
and go to the powder w/ easy ramrod strokes

FrontierGander · October 16, 2015, 11:37 PM

only your patch can tell you if its right or not.

I've had some that loaded like a mother and shot like crap.

Start with the .015" patch, shoot, check the recovered patch for rips or holes. If there are any, you need to go to a thicker patch.

darkgael · October 17, 2015, 04:23 AM

Rebs: Patch thickness is one of those elements of muzzleloading that is a continuing source of discussion (kinda like asking for a moose milk recipe).
Since you now have both 0.010 and 0.015 patches, you can try them both.
I have six 50 cal. guns - two rifles and four pistols - I use the thinner patch in all of them. They work for me. No burn through. Accurate.
Ymmv.

Pete

rebs · October 20, 2015, 07:20 AM

Thank you guys for all the help and information you have given me, I appreciate it

rebs · October 21, 2015, 07:42 PM

Another question, I bought a three pack of Lyman nipples #11 with the metric threads for my Italian made ML. When I put a cap on the nipple and shoot the gun the cap doesn't fire until I fire it the second time. If I put the cap on and push the hammer on it to kind of seat it then it fires on the first shot. Is this normal or did I get a defective nipple ? This did not happen with the old nipple.

Pahoo · October 21, 2015, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Is this normal

It is normal and if not, one could say that your caps are defective. This fit will change with time and going to a different cap. If you like, prefit the cap by pushing them down with your thumb. You could also dress up you cone and later complain cause your nipple are now loose. This is all part of this great adventure. ....

Be Safe !!!

Hellgate · October 21, 2015, 09:08 PM

Rebs,
Your nipple is too big for the caps you use. Try one of the other nipples from the 3 pack to see if the cap goes on easier. Often caps are inconsistent in their dimensions. You might also get a larger sized cap. If you are using a Remington#10 then try a CCI#11 (CCI#10s are way smaller than the Rem#10 or the CCI#11) or a Remington #11 cap.

What is happening is your cap is not seating all the way down onto the nipple. The first strike of the hammer is seating it down to where it is contacting the priming compound and the second strike is setting it off. Using the hammer to seat it shoves it down harder onto the nipple cone to seat it but you are risking an accidental discharge. If the range safety officer saw you doing that you'd get tossed out. Get bigger caps. Another option is the RWS#1075 which is close to the Rem#10 & CCI#11 in size.

rebs · October 22, 2015, 09:16 AM

I am using CCI #11 caps, next trip to the range I will try some Remington #11 caps that a friend gave me to try.

rebs · October 26, 2015, 05:03 PM

I bought a CVA brass powder flask with a 30 gr tube, the problem is it only dispenses 27 to 28 grains not the 30 it is supposed to. Is it defective or this just the way they are, not real accurate ?
Also seen a breech plug cleaning brush, it says it works better than a scraper. Do you guys use the brush, does it work better ?
Will a 50 cal bullet puller work in a 58 cal barrel ? It seems the screw is a little bit smaller and wouldn't expand the ball as much, true or false ?

I truly appreciate all you guys helping me out here. Hope I don't wear out my welcome with all my questions.

Hawg · October 26, 2015, 09:14 PM

Flask spouts aren't always the same and it depends on how much pressure you use when you cover the opening with your thumb. All I use to clean is a bore mop. The .50 puller may not be centered on the .58 ball when you thread it in.

Old Stony · October 27, 2015, 04:18 AM

Just purchased a Investarms .58 from a member on another forum. I wanted one for hunting purposes and .58's in other than musket form seem pretty hard to find. The Big Boar TC's are getting pretty pricey, and I really wanted something other than a Renegade.
I still have a good supply of round balls for it from previous encounters and it will see hunting experience in a couple weeks if all goes well with it.

October 15, 2015, 07:02 PM	#79
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	brass Dont worry about the clean out screw, they are worthless and seize up all of the time. Just remove the nipple while you flush the barrel clean. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 15, 2015, 08:42 PM	#80
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	SCREW: The cleanout screw is neither worthless, nor does it bind up. It give you straight cleanout access through the critical flash channel. Oil the threads before shooting, clean/oil the threads after shooting (like everything else on the rifle) and install finger (not gorilla) tight. It will last you a lifetime of shooting. Now If someone ignored the screw, then soak inside and out with penetrating oil/Kroil after each cleaning session and periodically try again. FLASKS: Any flask will do (I prefer traditional brass) to fill the powder measure, but use the measure to fill the barrel (not the flask). RODS: Get/use a flexible fiberglass loading rod, https://www.buffaloarms.com/Muzzlelo....aspx?CAT=5591 and a one-piece aluminum cleaning rod -- w/ an integral muzzle guide made specifically for muskets. http://winchestersutler.com/ShotLoad.html#MCROD Last edited by mehavey; October 15, 2015 at 09:06 PM.

October 15, 2015, 09:03 PM	#81
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	completely worthless! Ive never touched one in all the years of muzzleloading. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 16, 2015, 11:37 PM	#91
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	only your patch can tell you if its right or not. I've had some that loaded like a mother and shot like crap. Start with the .015" patch, shoot, check the recovered patch for rips or holes. If there are any, you need to go to a thicker patch. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

October 17, 2015, 04:23 AM	#92
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Patches Rebs: Patch thickness is one of those elements of muzzleloading that is a continuing source of discussion (kinda like asking for a moose milk recipe). Since you now have both 0.010 and 0.015 patches, you can try them both. I have six 50 cal. guns - two rifles and four pistols - I use the thinner patch in all of them. They work for me. No burn through. Accurate. Ymmv. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; October 17, 2015 at 05:06 AM.

October 14, 2015, 06:06 AM	#76
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I seen there is a small screw or plug right under where the nipple it, should that be taken out to clean in there ?

October 14, 2015, 06:11 AM	#77
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Yes... That's the cleanout screw and gives you a straight shot through the flash channel and into the ignition chamber with a pipe cleaner. Put a drop of BreakFree/Synthetic Motor oil in its threads after cleaning.

October 15, 2015, 06:34 PM	#78
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I cannot turn that small clean out screw ? How much trouble am I in not being able to get it out ? Which ram rod do you guys recommend for a range rod, I have seen hollow and solid aluminum and fiberglass ? Powder flask, which is preferred the brass or plastic polymer ?

October 15, 2015, 09:08 PM	#82
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Five rifles (those w/ cleanout screws) and counting. (Several others without) Not one ever bound up, and all made cleaning a breeze. If the OP can get his free'd up, he's ahead of the game from that point on.

October 15, 2015, 09:24 PM	#83
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I'd say you certainly can clean the fire channel without removing the screw, it's just easier if you do it. Steve

October 16, 2015, 04:27 PM	#85
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	How do you clean the fire channel without removing the screw ? I found out today that all #11 nipples are not the same, they have different threads. I bought a T/C #11 today and when I got home to put it in found out its the wrong threads, I need a 6MMx75 for investarms. How do you know when you need a new nipple ? Or do you change them after so many rounds etc ?

October 16, 2015, 04:39 PM	#86
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Nipples generally need replacing for two reasons: - The flash hole through the bottom grows in diameter to the point that ignition becomes unreliable.* - The owner "dry fires" w/o a cap and gradually peens the nipple wider to where it's hard to seat a cap. * Sometimes nippls are supplied in which the flash hole is wide open (as for re-enactors). But if it works, use it. postscript: If you can, replace the #11 nipple with a musket nipple -- and use musket caps (heavy-duty ignition surety) If you choose not to disassemble the rifle barrel each cleanining (I don't), the barrel's flash channel can be cleaned without removing the cleanout plug by putting one end of a foot-long piece of Tygon tubing tightly on the nipple, and the other end in a pot of hot soapy water. Using a tight patch, pump the soapy water back and forth through the nipple/flash channel and it'll be OK. (Don't forget to then remove/clean/oil the nipple itself (etc) afterwards.)

October 16, 2015, 07:01 PM	#87
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Yup, like Mehavey, said, you can clean the barrel by flushing. I think mechanical cleaning is more sure, but I don't do a complete teardown every clean either. Steve

October 16, 2015, 08:43 PM	#89
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I forgot to say in my last post. I bought some .010 patches and I was able to start the ball in the barrel with a hard push with my thumb then it pushed down quite nicely with the ramrod. Is that too easy and I should stay with the .015 patches ? I mean I really had to push with my thumb and with the ramrod it went all the way down just pushing it, I didn't have to tap it down.

October 16, 2015, 09:47 PM	#90
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Try going back to the 15-thou patch. It should take a light tap with a rawhide hammer/block of wood to get flush w/ the muzzle to start. Then smack the short-starter with the palm of your hand to get it further down to the 4-5" point. Finally short strokes with the ramrod to get it down to the powder. Patched-ball should be "smoothly stiff" in seating. BREAK BREAK: Have you tried Minieballs yet? They start freely, take no patch, and go to the powder w/ easy ramrod strokes

October 20, 2015, 07:20 AM	#93
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you guys for all the help and information you have given me, I appreciate it

October 21, 2015, 07:42 PM	#94
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Another question, I bought a three pack of Lyman nipples #11 with the metric threads for my Italian made ML. When I put a cap on the nipple and shoot the gun the cap doesn't fire until I fire it the second time. If I put the cap on and push the hammer on it to kind of seat it then it fires on the first shot. Is this normal or did I get a defective nipple ? This did not happen with the old nipple.

October 21, 2015, 09:08 PM	#96
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	Rebs, Your nipple is too big for the caps you use. Try one of the other nipples from the 3 pack to see if the cap goes on easier. Often caps are inconsistent in their dimensions. You might also get a larger sized cap. If you are using a Remington#10 then try a CCI#11 (CCI#10s are way smaller than the Rem#10 or the CCI#11) or a Remington #11 cap. What is happening is your cap is not seating all the way down onto the nipple. The first strike of the hammer is seating it down to where it is contacting the priming compound and the second strike is setting it off. Using the hammer to seat it shoves it down harder onto the nipple cone to seat it but you are risking an accidental discharge. If the range safety officer saw you doing that you'd get tossed out. Get bigger caps. Another option is the RWS#1075 which is close to the Rem#10 & CCI#11 in size. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

October 22, 2015, 09:16 AM	#97
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I am using CCI #11 caps, next trip to the range I will try some Remington #11 caps that a friend gave me to try.

October 26, 2015, 05:03 PM	#98
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I bought a CVA brass powder flask with a 30 gr tube, the problem is it only dispenses 27 to 28 grains not the 30 it is supposed to. Is it defective or this just the way they are, not real accurate ? Also seen a breech plug cleaning brush, it says it works better than a scraper. Do you guys use the brush, does it work better ? Will a 50 cal bullet puller work in a 58 cal barrel ? It seems the screw is a little bit smaller and wouldn't expand the ball as much, true or false ? I truly appreciate all you guys helping me out here. Hope I don't wear out my welcome with all my questions.

October 26, 2015, 09:14 PM	#99
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Flask spouts aren't always the same and it depends on how much pressure you use when you cover the opening with your thumb. All I use to clean is a bore mop. The .50 puller may not be centered on the .58 ball when you thread it in.

October 27, 2015, 04:18 AM	#100
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Just purchased a Investarms .58 from a member on another forum. I wanted one for hunting purposes and .58's in other than musket form seem pretty hard to find. The Big Boar TC's are getting pretty pricey, and I really wanted something other than a Renegade. I still have a good supply of round balls for it from previous encounters and it will see hunting experience in a couple weeks if all goes well with it.