Rifle match - Would I be laughed at?

OnTheFly · June 17, 2008, 10:32 AM

I'm hoping to buy an AR-15 soon. My son and I were going to build it. I planned to get a free float handguard and HBAR. However, there were going to be several "tactical" aspects to the rifle such as 16" barrel, flattop, and collapsible stock. I don't plan on being super competitive. Just looking to meet some fellow shooters and have some fun. Will I get strange looks and be shunned from the group by bringing such a rifle to a match?

Fly

Glenn E. Meyer · June 17, 2008, 10:33 AM

What kind of match? We do carbine matches here and that would be fine.

It wouldn't go over at the checkers match.

OnTheFly · June 17, 2008, 12:57 PM

Ok...let me demonstrate how much of a newb I am.

Quote:

What kind of match? We do carbine matches here and that would be fine.

It wouldn't go over at the checkers match.

I have NO clue. I've shot just one match because an avid match shooter invited me. His friend loaned me a Garand. It was fun, but I doubt I will be able to commit the time and finances like my friend does. So I was looking at a happy medium...if that even exists. We shot out to 200 yards because the 300 yard targets were the wrong ones.

Fly

langenc · June 17, 2008, 02:36 PM

Shoot whatever you got.

Any fool that laughs at you wasnt a friend anyway. If someone laughs they probably are jealous.

Casimer · June 17, 2008, 03:23 PM

If you were using a sling and shooting from positions (i.e. prone, sitting/kneeling, and standing), then it was probably a High Power match.

No one's going to shun you for the set-up you've described - but they'll probably advise you to go w/ a longer barrel if you're going to be shooting that far.

paul s · June 18, 2008, 11:11 AM

No one will laugh at you, but you will find out how useless a carbine is.

OnTheFly · June 18, 2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

If you were using a sling and shooting from positions (i.e. prone, sitting/kneeling, and standing), then it was probably a High Power match.

Yes...you are right. It was a high power match. A friend of a friend loaned me his Garand.

Fly

T. O'Heir · June 18, 2008, 08:48 PM

"...wasnt a friend anyway..." Not much of a sportsman either. There's competitive shooting of some type for every firearm out there. Short barreled AR's are seen at a lot of 3 gun shoots, et al. Find the type you like.

WeedWacker · June 19, 2008, 02:20 AM

http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Rifle_Kits_20_s/58.htm
http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Rifle_Kits_16_s/57.htm

Kits for carbine and 20" full sized M16. You can customize them and they ship to you disassembled and you can pick foregrip, upper, barrel, lower receiver, feedramps, etc., etc., and it is more affordable than buying strictly brand name i.e. DPMS or Bushmaster or Rock River Arms (Rock River Arms, BTW, I have heard glowing reviews about on affordability and performance)

Click on the link and rifle you want to make then it lets you accessorize

Edit: You will probably have to get a lower if you get one of the above. Says it's not included anyway.

EditII: Here's what I have picked out.
# 16 LW Rifle Kit -Barrel: DTI 16" 1x9 Light Weight Barrel
# 16 Rifle Kit -Handguards:YHM 4 Rail Light Weight Free Float Tube
# Rifle Kit -BC:Standard Bolt & Carrier
# Rifle Kit -Buttstock:M4 Buttstock - Black
# Rifle Kit -Carrying Handle: Detachable Carrying Handle (Flat Top's ONLY)
# Rifle Kit -Flash Hiders:3 Prong Flash Hider
# Rifle Kit -Gas Blocks:YHM Specter Gas Block
# Rifle Kit -Grips:Ergo Grip - Ambi
# Rifle Kit -Lower Parts:Standard Lower Parts
# Rifle Kit -T Handle:Standard Charging Handle
# Rifle Kit -Uppers:Flat Top Upper with M4 Feed Ramps

Also picked were EoTech 512 Holo sight and Harris LM Non swivel bipod. Total with UPS 3 day: $1,189.48

MythBuster · June 29, 2008, 05:12 PM

If you are going to shoot NRA service rifle matches your AR has to be NRA service rifle legal.

The carbine you are wanting to build will not be NRA legal as a service rifle.

It must have a 20 inch barrel and fixed stock. It has to be the same in outward appearance as the M-16 a2.

OnTheFly · June 29, 2008, 09:03 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I'm torn on what to do with such limited funds. My friend would really like me to get the 20" match rifle, but then I thought a 16" carbine with adjustable stock would be easier for my kids (12 & 14 years old) to shoot.

I will likely go with the carbine since a real match rifle will be quite a bit more pricey. I’ve thought about buying two lowers right now so that I will already own the “firearm” should another AWB come along. Hopefully I would be grand fathered in.

As far as Del-Ton.com...I found out about that site some time ago and have played around with designing my very own ar15 LATE into the night. I dream, but the funds are slow in coming.

Fly

lmccrock · June 30, 2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

It must have a 20 inch barrel and fixed stock. It has to be the same in outward appearance as the M-16 a2.

I think they now allow flat top uppers in service rifle, but the carry handle must be attached. Also, the matches I shot had both Service and Match Rifle categories, and a 16" barrel would put you in Match rifle, but you compete against the space guns and bolt actions, so 16" is a competitive disadvantage. However, you WILL learn how to shoot. 200-300 yards, should be ok.

My suggestion would be to get a stock 20", correct for service rifle, but without the upgrades. It is cheaper in the long run to get the match trigger and sights and barrel up front (do not pay for parts twice), but it is interesting to see how much your scores improve as you upgrade. The kids should learn to shoot the full size rifle if you want to shoot the matches. And the kids will grow up (so they say

).

Lee

Tim R · June 30, 2008, 01:48 PM

For the kids you might try swapping out the A-2 stock for a A-1 stock. The A-1 stock is shorter. A-1 stocks can be had for little $ at most surplus outlets. It's not really a quick change but isn't hard either.

skinewmexico · June 30, 2008, 06:32 PM

I thought since the M4 was now an issue weapon, it was legal in High Power.

Casimer · July 1, 2008, 12:47 PM

I wouldn't buy a new match grade AR until you're confident that you're going to pursue the sport. In the interim, check out the buy/sell section at nationalmatch.us. You can often find a 2nd hand upper w/ some life left in it for a good price.

lmccrock · July 1, 2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

I thought since the M4 was now an issue weapon, it was legal in High Power.

It is legal, just not for "service rifle". Heck, a 1903 or 1917 are not "service rifles". Fine for match rifle.

Lee

30Cal · July 1, 2008, 02:54 PM

Built what you want. If it's got iron sights, you can shoot it at your local match. I doubt they'll laugh, but you'll probably get a little good-natured ribbing from time to time if you keep going.

T. O'Heir · July 6, 2008, 02:29 AM

"...easier for my kids..." Likely won't matter. Use to command a CF Army Cadet Corps. 13 to 18 year old teenagers, at the time. Most of 'em had no trouble shooting an FN C1A1 or a No.4 Lee-Enfield. Even the small statured teenage girls. Had a 5 foot nothing girl who could shoot circles around most of the 6' plus guys with either. A regular stocked AR will do nicely.
"...an issue weapon..." That doesn't mean anything to the target shooting rule makers. They're not bound by what the military does.

Jim Morrison · July 7, 2008, 11:30 AM

What I would suggest you get is a generic match grade AR by what ever the manufacture.

I use a Bushmaster XM15 E2s Model. It came complete, No messing around. Unpacked it, followed the break in procedures, started shooting local matches.

If you start shooting matches on a regular bases, you will end up getting a match grade anyway.

We've two rifle groups in our club. One is by the Book and the other kind of makes up the rules as needed. Each group shoots once a month and about 60% of the total, shoots in both matches.

You can checkout it out at the web page - jmorrisngooglepages.com/

Jim

Scorch · July 8, 2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Also picked were EoTech 512 Holo sight and Harris LM Non swivel bipod. Total with UPS 3 day: $1,189.48

From RRA site

Quote:

AR1280X Standard A2
Please allow four to eight weeks for delivery, six to eight weeks with chrome lined barrel.
$970.00

Not too sure whether you save a bunch of money by building it yourself or not. BTW, the match could also have been a CMP match, and lots of us shoot ARs on the line.

OnTheFly · July 8, 2008, 01:06 PM

Yes...some were shooting M1s and others AR15s.

Fly

Threefeathers · July 8, 2008, 10:20 PM

I'd laugh with you as we pull targets in the pits and our son's beat the heck out of us.

David Hineline · July 8, 2008, 10:47 PM

Clubs in Weeping Water and the ENGC club east of Louisville, NE both shoot action rifle matches which your rifle would be made for. If any interest in blach things that go boom, I reccomend this event.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/ffs.pdf

OnTheFly · July 8, 2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hineline

If any interest in blach things that go boom, I reccomend this event.

That's AWESOME! I'll have to check it out.

Thanks,
Fly

cracked butt · July 14, 2008, 03:12 PM

A carbine won't qualify as a Service rifle, but it will qualify as a match rifle. It won't be competitive in either class anyway unless you are extraordinarily good but noone is starting out anyway. Buy/build what you want, take to some matches and have fun (I can pretty much guarantee that you will). If you decide down the road to dedicate yourself to the sport buy a dedicated rifle then.

Noone is going to laugh at you, everyone started out at the bottom with less than ideal equipment at some point in time. If anything, you'll probably get insistant offers from other shooters to use their spotting scope and mat on sight and also help with your positions and sling if you asked.

June 17, 2008, 10:32 AM	#1
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	Rifle match - Would I be laughed at? I'm hoping to buy an AR-15 soon. My son and I were going to build it. I planned to get a free float handguard and HBAR. However, there were going to be several "tactical" aspects to the rifle such as 16" barrel, flattop, and collapsible stock. I don't plan on being super competitive. Just looking to meet some fellow shooters and have some fun. Will I get strange looks and be shunned from the group by bringing such a rifle to a match? Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang...

June 17, 2008, 10:33 AM	#2
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	What kind of match? We do carbine matches here and that would be fine. It wouldn't go over at the checkers match. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

June 18, 2008, 08:48 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...wasnt a friend anyway..." Not much of a sportsman either. There's competitive shooting of some type for every firearm out there. Short barreled AR's are seen at a lot of 3 gun shoots, et al. Find the type you like. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 19, 2008, 02:20 AM	#9
WeedWacker Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin Posts: 1,591	http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Rifle_Kits_20_s/58.htm http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Rifle_Kits_16_s/57.htm Kits for carbine and 20" full sized M16. You can customize them and they ship to you disassembled and you can pick foregrip, upper, barrel, lower receiver, feedramps, etc., etc., and it is more affordable than buying strictly brand name i.e. DPMS or Bushmaster or Rock River Arms (Rock River Arms, BTW, I have heard glowing reviews about on affordability and performance) Click on the link and rifle you want to make then it lets you accessorize Edit: You will probably have to get a lower if you get one of the above. Says it's not included anyway. EditII: Here's what I have picked out. # 16 LW Rifle Kit -Barrel: DTI 16" 1x9 Light Weight Barrel # 16 Rifle Kit -Handguards:YHM 4 Rail Light Weight Free Float Tube # Rifle Kit -BC:Standard Bolt & Carrier # Rifle Kit -Buttstock:M4 Buttstock - Black # Rifle Kit -Carrying Handle: Detachable Carrying Handle (Flat Top's ONLY) # Rifle Kit -Flash Hiders:3 Prong Flash Hider # Rifle Kit -Gas Blocks:YHM Specter Gas Block # Rifle Kit -Grips:Ergo Grip - Ambi # Rifle Kit -Lower Parts:Standard Lower Parts # Rifle Kit -T Handle:Standard Charging Handle # Rifle Kit -Uppers:Flat Top Upper with M4 Feed Ramps Also picked were EoTech 512 Holo sight and Harris LM Non swivel bipod. Total with UPS 3 day: $1,189.48 __________________ - Jon Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation. 9mm vs .45 ACP? The answer is .429

June 29, 2008, 09:03 PM	#11
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	Thanks for the info guys. I'm torn on what to do with such limited funds. My friend would really like me to get the 20" match rifle, but then I thought a 16" carbine with adjustable stock would be easier for my kids (12 & 14 years old) to shoot. I will likely go with the carbine since a real match rifle will be quite a bit more pricey. I’ve thought about buying two lowers right now so that I will already own the “firearm” should another AWB come along. Hopefully I would be grand fathered in. As far as Del-Ton.com...I found out about that site some time ago and have played around with designing my very own ar15 LATE into the night. I dream, but the funds are slow in coming. Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang...

June 17, 2008, 02:36 PM	#4
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Shoot whatever you got. Any fool that laughs at you wasnt a friend anyway. If someone laughs they probably are jealous.

June 17, 2008, 03:23 PM	#5
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	If you were using a sling and shooting from positions (i.e. prone, sitting/kneeling, and standing), then it was probably a High Power match. No one's going to shun you for the set-up you've described - but they'll probably advise you to go w/ a longer barrel if you're going to be shooting that far.

June 18, 2008, 11:11 AM	#6
paul s Member Join Date: August 17, 2004 Location: Mid TN. Posts: 28	No one will laugh at you, but you will find out how useless a carbine is.

June 29, 2008, 05:12 PM	#10
MythBuster Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2007 Posts: 629	If you are going to shoot NRA service rifle matches your AR has to be NRA service rifle legal. The carbine you are wanting to build will not be NRA legal as a service rifle. It must have a 20 inch barrel and fixed stock. It has to be the same in outward appearance as the M-16 a2.

June 30, 2008, 01:48 PM	#13
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	For the kids you might try swapping out the A-2 stock for a A-1 stock. The A-1 stock is shorter. A-1 stocks can be had for little $ at most surplus outlets. It's not really a quick change but isn't hard either. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

June 30, 2008, 06:32 PM	#14
skinewmexico Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2007 Posts: 227	I thought since the M4 was now an issue weapon, it was legal in High Power.

July 1, 2008, 12:47 PM	#15
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	I wouldn't buy a new match grade AR until you're confident that you're going to pursue the sport. In the interim, check out the buy/sell section at nationalmatch.us. You can often find a 2nd hand upper w/ some life left in it for a good price.

July 1, 2008, 02:54 PM	#17
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	Built what you want. If it's got iron sights, you can shoot it at your local match. I doubt they'll laugh, but you'll probably get a little good-natured ribbing from time to time if you keep going.

July 6, 2008, 02:29 AM	#18
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...easier for my kids..." Likely won't matter. Use to command a CF Army Cadet Corps. 13 to 18 year old teenagers, at the time. Most of 'em had no trouble shooting an FN C1A1 or a No.4 Lee-Enfield. Even the small statured teenage girls. Had a 5 foot nothing girl who could shoot circles around most of the 6' plus guys with either. A regular stocked AR will do nicely. "...an issue weapon..." That doesn't mean anything to the target shooting rule makers. They're not bound by what the military does. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 7, 2008, 11:30 AM	#19
Jim Morrison Junior Member Join Date: July 6, 2008 Posts: 1	match grade AR What I would suggest you get is a generic match grade AR by what ever the manufacture. I use a Bushmaster XM15 E2s Model. It came complete, No messing around. Unpacked it, followed the break in procedures, started shooting local matches. If you start shooting matches on a regular bases, you will end up getting a match grade anyway. We've two rifle groups in our club. One is by the Book and the other kind of makes up the rules as needed. Each group shoots once a month and about 60% of the total, shoots in both matches. You can checkout it out at the web page - jmorrisngooglepages.com/ Jim

July 8, 2008, 01:06 PM	#21
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	Yes...some were shooting M1s and others AR15s. Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang...

July 8, 2008, 10:20 PM	#22
Threefeathers Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Location: AZ Posts: 392	I'd laugh with you as we pull targets in the pits and our son's beat the heck out of us.

July 8, 2008, 10:47 PM	#23
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Fellow Nebraskan Clubs in Weeping Water and the ENGC club east of Louisville, NE both shoot action rifle matches which your rifle would be made for. If any interest in blach things that go boom, I reccomend this event. http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/ffs.pdf

July 14, 2008, 03:12 PM	#25
cracked butt Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2001 Location: southeastern wisconsin Posts: 537	A carbine won't qualify as a Service rifle, but it will qualify as a match rifle. It won't be competitive in either class anyway unless you are extraordinarily good but noone is starting out anyway. Buy/build what you want, take to some matches and have fun (I can pretty much guarantee that you will). If you decide down the road to dedicate yourself to the sport buy a dedicated rifle then. Noone is going to laugh at you, everyone started out at the bottom with less than ideal equipment at some point in time. If anything, you'll probably get insistant offers from other shooters to use their spotting scope and mat on sight and also help with your positions and sling if you asked.