Savage Enfield or Not ?

Whoddi · December 30, 2013, 05:37 PM

Greeting. I am hoping one of you experts can clarify an Issue. Are there any Savage Enfields that do not have the S stamped before the NO4 MKI* ? I have what appears to be a Savage that belongs to my uncle. I have attached pictures of my Uncles and mine for comparison. My uncles doesn't appear to be scrubbed or if so they done a damn fine job.

Any assistance/comments appreciated.

If you notice the one with the missing S looks like a sketchy stamp job. Also on the receiver just before the US PROPERTY there appears to be an oval with an arrow inside of it. There is a small 27 stamped on the stock as well just below the pistol grip portion of the stock.

Thanks in Advance

Tim

Tidewater_Kid · December 30, 2013, 06:58 PM

Just my opinion, but I believe it to be of Savage manufacture. I own a Savage made in 1941 and the S mark is marked by the model number. The fact that this one is marked on the wrist, would indicate that it is of Savage heritage.

TK

xring3 · December 30, 2013, 08:43 PM

I agree with Tidewater

James K · December 30, 2013, 10:00 PM

That serial number is Savage; the C stands for Chicopee (Savage was located at Chicopee Falls, MA).

Jim

tahunua001 · December 30, 2013, 10:02 PM

well I can think of two ways to check. is it a true MK1*? the * indicates the slitted bolt face removal rather than springloaded release at the rear. if its in the front then it's a MK1* and either has to be longbranch or savage.

longbranches are so marked so the savage would be the only real option.

gyvel · December 31, 2013, 12:56 AM

As Jim K said, it's a Savage. The "C" does, in fact, refer to the location of the Savage plant, Chicopee Falls. The squared "S" is also a Savage marking.

You actual production number is 449,736.

wogpotter · December 31, 2013, 08:22 AM

Look at the shape of the receiver where the left side wall transitions to the "flat" just at the woodwork junction.
If the transition is a diagonal flat its not a Savage as they had a different profile at that point using a small diameter radius.

Whoddi · December 31, 2013, 11:51 PM

I think I understand where you are talking about so I compared it to my actual savage and it looks identical. There is a small diameter radius present. The rest of the weapon has the S in various spots. On the right side of the receiver just below the sight there is the smallest import mark I have ever seen. It is 1/4"X3/8" and says

Made is USA
Cal 303
Colswan VT Or CDI Swan VT (really hard to tell)

Thank you for all your input it is appreciated.

While I am at it my Savage does not have a year stamped can you tell by serial#? It is 70C9831 and only has a B stamped below it nothing else.

Regards
Tim

Whoddi · January 1, 2014, 02:05 PM

Also he is looking to sell and was wondering what an approx. value would be. It does have a Bushnell Stalker scope with a B Square Mount. I am just looking for a starting point he can go with. I bought mine for $295 a few years back and it is in good shape. His rifle is in just as good shape. Bolt S# matches rifle, Mag has no S# stamped.

I realize there are many variables when it comes to value but I don't want him to get screwed as he is in need of the money. I would buy it but I already bought his Quality Hardware M1 Carbine

. I have attached a picture of the rifle and one stamp found on the stock.

Thanks in advance.

Tim

tahunua001 · January 1, 2014, 03:21 PM

if that mount is drilled and tapped into place which it looks like it is, then it's a $125 rifle. if it is reversable probably $200 even.

wogpotter · January 1, 2014, 04:47 PM

B-Square is NDNT so it won't effect value much. If he has the original rear-sight, pivot pin & pivot pin cross pin (so it can be returned 100% to MilSpec, then that would add $50~75 to the asking price.

Savages are not "rare", or "collectable". In fact they were far & away the most common of the No4Mk1*'s made. Savage made more No4 Mk1*'s than all other factories combined.

If it had been a No4 Mk1 (no *) then it is rarer as they didn't make that many before switching over.

I'd not go a pile of money just because the B-Square is ok, but not great & likewise the Bushnell. I'd guess, not having seen it, or checked anything on it about $350 in today's whacky marketplace.

RC20 · January 2, 2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

I think I understand where you are talking about so I compared it to my actual savage and it looks identical. There is a small diameter radius present. The rest of the weapon has the S in various spots. On the right side of the receiver just below the sight there is the smallest import mark I have ever seen. It is 1/4"X3/8" and says

Made is USA
Cal 303
Colswan VT Or CDI Swan VT (really hard to tell)

Thank you for all your input it is appreciated.

That mark is CDI for Classic Distributors Inc Swan Vermont. Reputable importers and they put the tiniest and be legal mark on the guns they could.

Whoddi · January 2, 2014, 06:01 PM

Thank you all for the reply's. Some outstanding information.

No there was no drilling involved, however I do not believe he has the original sight.

Tim

wogpotter · January 3, 2014, 08:31 AM

OK no biggie if you're looking for a scoped shooter, but it might effect value by $25~50 if he doesn't.
Incidentally the B-Square sight allows the use of the original sight's battle sight so it may be in there under the mount & rings.

gyvel · January 4, 2014, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Savages are not "rare", or "collectable". In fact they were far & away the most common of the No4Mk1*'s made. Savage made more No4 Mk1*'s than all other factories combined.

While close to 1,500,000 Savage No. 4s were produced, many, sadly, are at the bottom of the Atlantic.

So, I have to disagree with your statement; Savages are very collectible and tend to bring more $$ than the multitude of British produced guns. Long Branch guns tend to bring in the second highest $$, at least here in the U.S.

tahunua001 · January 4, 2014, 12:58 PM

at least for my geographic area I have to agree with gyvel. my brother and I were lucky enough to find a honeyhole of old C&Rs. most were in a big stack of parts. I found myself a complete and numbers matching savage. my brother found a barreled long branch action. he built himself a sporterized model with a ramline stock, basically from scratch and I almost succeeded in doing the same with a T receiver.

i normally see at least 2 enfields in any gun shop I go into and there are at least half to a full dozen at any given gun show I go to. I have yet to lay eyes on another T, Savage, or Longbranch.

wogpotter · January 4, 2014, 02:26 PM

Maybe its geographical. Round here I'd say the ratio was close to 2 Savages for one of anything else. The vast majority of them having been in South African service as well.

gyvel · January 5, 2014, 03:02 AM

I've only ever had one South African gun with the 'U" mark in my collection and that was a Fazakerly gun.

December 30, 2013, 10:02 PM	#5
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	well I can think of two ways to check. is it a true MK1? the indicates the slitted bolt face removal rather than springloaded release at the rear. if its in the front then it's a MK1* and either has to be longbranch or savage. longbranches are so marked so the savage would be the only real option. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

December 31, 2013, 08:22 AM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Look at the shape of the receiver where the left side wall transitions to the "flat" just at the woodwork junction. If the transition is a diagonal flat its not a Savage as they had a different profile at that point using a small diameter radius. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 1, 2014, 03:21 PM	#10
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	if that mount is drilled and tapped into place which it looks like it is, then it's a $125 rifle. if it is reversable probably $200 even. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

January 1, 2014, 04:47 PM	#11
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	B-Square is NDNT so it won't effect value much. If he has the original rear-sight, pivot pin & pivot pin cross pin (so it can be returned 100% to MilSpec, then that would add $50~75 to the asking price. Savages are not "rare", or "collectable". In fact they were far & away the most common of the No4Mk1's made. Savage made more No4 Mk1's than all other factories combined. If it had been a No4 Mk1 (no *) then it is rarer as they didn't make that many before switching over. I'd not go a pile of money just because the B-Square is ok, but not great & likewise the Bushnell. I'd guess, not having seen it, or checked anything on it about $350 in today's whacky marketplace. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 3, 2014, 08:31 AM	#14
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	OK no biggie if you're looking for a scoped shooter, but it might effect value by $25~50 if he doesn't. Incidentally the B-Square sight allows the use of the original sight's battle sight so it may be in there under the mount & rings. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

December 30, 2013, 06:58 PM	#2
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Just my opinion, but I believe it to be of Savage manufacture. I own a Savage made in 1941 and the S mark is marked by the model number. The fact that this one is marked on the wrist, would indicate that it is of Savage heritage. TK

December 30, 2013, 08:43 PM	#3
xring3 Member Join Date: March 6, 2008 Location: northwest Oklahoma Posts: 28	I agree with Tidewater

December 30, 2013, 10:00 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That serial number is Savage; the C stands for Chicopee (Savage was located at Chicopee Falls, MA). Jim

December 31, 2013, 12:56 AM	#6
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	As Jim K said, it's a Savage. The "C" does, in fact, refer to the location of the Savage plant, Chicopee Falls. The squared "S" is also a Savage marking. You actual production number is 449,736.

December 31, 2013, 11:51 PM	#8
Whoddi Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 4	I think I understand where you are talking about so I compared it to my actual savage and it looks identical. There is a small diameter radius present. The rest of the weapon has the S in various spots. On the right side of the receiver just below the sight there is the smallest import mark I have ever seen. It is 1/4"X3/8" and says Made is USA Cal 303 Colswan VT Or CDI Swan VT (really hard to tell) Thank you for all your input it is appreciated. While I am at it my Savage does not have a year stamped can you tell by serial#? It is 70C9831 and only has a B stamped below it nothing else. Regards Tim

January 2, 2014, 06:01 PM	#13
Whoddi Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2013 Location: Michigan Posts: 4	Thank you all for the reply's. Some outstanding information. No there was no drilling involved, however I do not believe he has the original sight. Tim

January 4, 2014, 12:58 PM	#16
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	at least for my geographic area I have to agree with gyvel. my brother and I were lucky enough to find a honeyhole of old C&Rs. most were in a big stack of parts. I found myself a complete and numbers matching savage. my brother found a barreled long branch action. he built himself a sporterized model with a ramline stock, basically from scratch and I almost succeeded in doing the same with a T receiver. i normally see at least 2 enfields in any gun shop I go into and there are at least half to a full dozen at any given gun show I go to. I have yet to lay eyes on another T, Savage, or Longbranch. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

January 4, 2014, 02:26 PM	#17
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Maybe its geographical. Round here I'd say the ratio was close to 2 Savages for one of anything else. The vast majority of them having been in South African service as well. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 5, 2014, 03:02 AM	#18
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I've only ever had one South African gun with the 'U" mark in my collection and that was a Fazakerly gun.