Dragoon Question

Irishman · March 30, 2009, 11:25 PM

I've been a single action guy since I was a kid but only recently got into bp. I picked up a 51 navy (pietta) and have since pretty much gotten addicted to it.
Well now I'm hooked and am considering my second addition. I've settled on Ubert but can't decide between the 2nd model dragoon vs the Whittneyville version. I can't figure out what the difference is between these two models. Anyone know?

beyond that, how does the dragoon compare to the walker?

Thanks in advance. I was glad to happen apon this sight and have found it very useful with my new obsession

Fingers McGee · March 31, 2009, 12:39 AM

The Whitneyville Dragoon is basically a 1st Model Dragoon with the Walker grip and gripframe. 8 inch vs 9 inch barrel and the front mounted loading lever latch. They both have the round bolt cuts in the cylinder with no lead in.

The Second Model Dragoon has the square bolt cuts with the lead in cut which makes lock up timing more forgiving than the Walker, Whitneyville or 1st Model Dragoon.

Walker, Whitneyville, 1st Model and 2nd Model Dragoons all have the square back trigger guard

The 3rd Model is basically the same as the 2nd Model; but with the round trigger guard.

Cylinder lock up timing can be problematic with the round bolt cuts on the Walker, Whitneyville, and 1st Model Dragoon. If you are going to shoot it very much, the 2d Model or 3rd Model would be your best bet.

FM

Smokin_Gun · March 31, 2009, 12:59 AM

I would agree with almost all that you stated Fingers except I find the Grip better on the Walker and Whitneyville Dragoon and Lockup more positive and less damaging to a cylinder with the round bolt and cylinder slots than the thinner depth of the sharper walled and early striking squared bolt and rectangular cylinder slots of the 2nd and 3rd Models Dragoons. But I do like the 7 1/2" barrels of the Dragoons. I have the First model Colt 3rd Gen. of the new Style Dragoon that Colt made after the Whitneyville and if it were one of the other two late models I might gladly Trade it for the Whitneyville in a Uberti. Just my flavor/own liking of the Dragoons. I'd jus' as soon have one of each :O)

mykeal · March 31, 2009, 06:31 AM

Why only one of each?

AdmiralB · March 31, 2009, 07:05 AM

I think the Whitneyville has a 7.5" barrel, like the rest of the Dragoons.

It also has the Walker mainspring, which can be a pain to remove/install. I think the 1st model should also have that spring, but I'm pretty sure that in Ubertiworld, all of them except the Whitneyville have the later style.

Irishman · March 31, 2009, 09:20 AM

thank you guys. I do intend to shoot it quite a bit so the 2nd model seems like the better option for me then

madcratebuilder · March 31, 2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

thank you guys. I do intend to shoot it quite a bit so the 2nd model seems like the better option for me then

Do you prefer the square back trigger guard over the round guard?
I must be getting soft in my old age, I like a glove when shooting the square back guard. My 51 with a square back is uncomfortable to shoot with out glove.

Irishman · March 31, 2009, 10:25 AM

I do like the square back. that was why I was leaning that way over the 3rd model. I like the traditional look never thought about it being uncomfortable to shoot.

Noz · March 31, 2009, 11:01 AM

The square back trigger guard is a misery that Col Colt inflicted on many generations of shooters. I can't shoot one without bleeding.

Irishman · March 31, 2009, 11:25 AM

Well, y'all have given me something to think about

Fingers McGee · March 31, 2009, 11:39 AM

Quote AdmiralB

Quote:

I think the Whitneyville has a 7.5" barrel, like the rest of the Dragoons.

It also has the Walker mainspring, which can be a pain to remove/install. I think the 1st model should also have that spring, but I'm pretty sure that in Ubertiworld, all of them except the Whitneyville have the later style.

You're right about the barrel length. I don't know why I typed 8 instead of 7.5, CRS I guess.

The original Patterson, Walker, Whitneyville and 1st Model Dragoons all had V type mainsprings. 2nd Gen Colts, Uberti Walkers, and Patterson repos do; but can't speak to the Whitneyvilles or 1st Models. Have never had any of them. And you're right. They are a PITA to work with.

Quote MCB

Quote:

Do you prefer the square back trigger guard over the round guard?
I must be getting soft in my old age, I like a glove when shooting the square back guard. My 51 with a square back is uncomfortable to shoot with out glove.

Quote Irishman

Quote:

I do like the square back. that was why I was leaning that way over the 3rd model. I like the traditional look never thought about it being uncomfortable to shoot.

Quote Noz

Quote:

The square back trigger guard is a misery that Col Colt inflicted on many generations of shooters. I can't shoot one without bleeding.

Not all grip sizes or BS/TG styles fit everyone. I don't have any problem with the square back TG on the 2nd Gen '51 Navies; but the trumpet flare on the Pietta grips and the long skinny '60 grips just dont feel right to me.

FM

tdmoparguy · March 31, 2009, 09:59 PM

I have a 2nd Model Dragoon I'll sell you it's an uberti. It needs a little work though.

Irishman · March 31, 2009, 10:08 PM

I appreciate that but like I said I am just getting in to this. Don't know if I know enough to start working on them just yet.

Smokin_Gun · March 31, 2009, 10:14 PM

tdmoparguy, I'm plannin' on bein' outside of Clavin, OK on the 19th of April at the SSS Ranch off a I40 for a Buff Hunt... What's it need and what monitary value do you place on it?...last Q, what Rev would you wanna trade it for?

I do have these for sale...

tdmoparguy · April 1, 2009, 01:05 PM

I'll take some pics tonight. Do you know how far that is from Henryetta? What happen was it chain fired and hit the hole where the loading lever is. All it did was snap the screw in the loading lever. But everything still works i have shot the gun numerous times after and always clean after i shoot.

kirpi97 · April 1, 2009, 06:29 PM

The advice and information given already is wonderful. I cannot add anything except my preference. I too wanted a Dragoon and a Walker, but at the time could only afford one. After all my research, I settled on the Dragoon. I like both revolvers and you can't go wrong with either. But it came down to the loading arm. I am not into something flopping down when I shoot. So for what it is worth, I chose the Dragoon. It is a Colt 2nd generation. I am still waiting for it to arrive. So I haven't shot it yet to tell you about the bloody knuckle possibilities from the square trigger guard.

Irishman · April 1, 2009, 08:45 PM

that was my reasoning too. I figured the dragoon had all the design improvements over the walker but still had most of the heft that I like in the Walker

D.Delozier · April 1, 2009, 08:50 PM

I was the same way,wanted a walker but did'nt like the droping lever they are known for.So I bought a uberti 3rd mod. and to my dismay,the first time I shot it the lever fell! And fell almost every shot,but it was an easy fix on the dragoon.You just put a stiffer spring in the lever latch,Have'nt had a problem since.

Smokin_Gun · April 1, 2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

All it did was snap the screw in the loading lever.

I don't know where Henryetta is not familiar with Oklahoma...

A chainfire with a standard .44 comes out of the cylinder chamber at about 200 fps ... could bust a screw I suppose. But wouldn't endanger a foot with a boot on it or a hand for that matter.
Paintball guns can get crankin' up to 410 fps and them with draw blood...
Saw the pics if only the screw would not be too difficult to fix I would think.
It's jus' hard to sell one like that not all shooters are kitchen table gunsmiths...and most want to pay for one ready to shoot. So the right person and the right price or trade will be the good deal...for you and the buyer...

tdmoparguy · April 2, 2009, 12:35 AM

Sorry I put the Pics in the wrong place. Got my Dragoon threads mixed up. I got this map from the SSS Ranch website. Henryetta is north on 75 from Calvin and East on 40. I'd get closer but my 79 Ford F-350 4x4 consumes too many dinosaurs. Did the pics show you everything you needed to see I can take more. As far as a deal i like trades almost better than cash most of the time.

Smokin_Gun · April 2, 2009, 12:56 AM

Is that Herryetta or Henryetta? I see what looks like Herryetta there... map typo?

O enlarged the pic and it is definately Henryetta... sorry.

CaptainCrossman · April 3, 2009, 06:30 AM

OP- I'm pretty sure that the Walker is the most powerful BP pistol revolver ever made, i.e. it has the largest powder capacity, and was the "magnum" of its day.

The Dragoons were basically modified Walkers, designed to make the guns lighter/quicker/easier to point and shoot. A Dragoon is a Walker that was put on a diet.

There's no answer to your question- because the only "correct" answer for us BP addicts is- you have to buy all of them. Get the Walker, and 1st-2nd-3rd model Dragoons !

But if I had to choose just one, I'd get the Walker first. It's heavy though.

March 30, 2009, 11:25 PM	#1
Irishman Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Posts: 23	Dragoon Question I've been a single action guy since I was a kid but only recently got into bp. I picked up a 51 navy (pietta) and have since pretty much gotten addicted to it. Well now I'm hooked and am considering my second addition. I've settled on Ubert but can't decide between the 2nd model dragoon vs the Whittneyville version. I can't figure out what the difference is between these two models. Anyone know? beyond that, how does the dragoon compare to the walker? Thanks in advance. I was glad to happen apon this sight and have found it very useful with my new obsession

March 31, 2009, 12:39 AM	#2
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	The Whitneyville Dragoon is basically a 1st Model Dragoon with the Walker grip and gripframe. 8 inch vs 9 inch barrel and the front mounted loading lever latch. They both have the round bolt cuts in the cylinder with no lead in. The Second Model Dragoon has the square bolt cuts with the lead in cut which makes lock up timing more forgiving than the Walker, Whitneyville or 1st Model Dragoon. Walker, Whitneyville, 1st Model and 2nd Model Dragoons all have the square back trigger guard The 3rd Model is basically the same as the 2nd Model; but with the round trigger guard. Cylinder lock up timing can be problematic with the round bolt cuts on the Walker, Whitneyville, and 1st Model Dragoon. If you are going to shoot it very much, the 2d Model or 3rd Model would be your best bet. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

March 31, 2009, 12:59 AM	#3
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I would agree with almost all that you stated Fingers except I find the Grip better on the Walker and Whitneyville Dragoon and Lockup more positive and less damaging to a cylinder with the round bolt and cylinder slots than the thinner depth of the sharper walled and early striking squared bolt and rectangular cylinder slots of the 2nd and 3rd Models Dragoons. But I do like the 7 1/2" barrels of the Dragoons. I have the First model Colt 3rd Gen. of the new Style Dragoon that Colt made after the Whitneyville and if it were one of the other two late models I might gladly Trade it for the Whitneyville in a Uberti. Just my flavor/own liking of the Dragoons. I'd jus' as soon have one of each :O) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

March 31, 2009, 11:01 AM	#9
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Square back The square back trigger guard is a misery that Col Colt inflicted on many generations of shooters. I can't shoot one without bleeding.

March 31, 2009, 10:14 PM	#14
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	tdmoparguy, I'm plannin' on bein' outside of Clavin, OK on the 19th of April at the SSS Ranch off a I40 for a Buff Hunt... What's it need and what monitary value do you place on it?...last Q, what Rev would you wanna trade it for? I do have these for sale... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

March 31, 2009, 06:31 AM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Why only one of each?

March 31, 2009, 07:05 AM	#5
AdmiralB Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 88	I think the Whitneyville has a 7.5" barrel, like the rest of the Dragoons. It also has the Walker mainspring, which can be a pain to remove/install. I think the 1st model should also have that spring, but I'm pretty sure that in Ubertiworld, all of them except the Whitneyville have the later style.

March 31, 2009, 09:20 AM	#6
Irishman Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Posts: 23	thank you guys. I do intend to shoot it quite a bit so the 2nd model seems like the better option for me then

March 31, 2009, 10:25 AM	#8
Irishman Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Posts: 23	I do like the square back. that was why I was leaning that way over the 3rd model. I like the traditional look never thought about it being uncomfortable to shoot.

March 31, 2009, 11:25 AM	#10
Irishman Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Posts: 23	Well, y'all have given me something to think about

March 31, 2009, 09:59 PM	#12
tdmoparguy Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: Okmulgee,OK Posts: 70	I have a 2nd Model Dragoon I'll sell you it's an uberti. It needs a little work though.

March 31, 2009, 10:08 PM	#13
Irishman Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Posts: 23	I appreciate that but like I said I am just getting in to this. Don't know if I know enough to start working on them just yet.

April 1, 2009, 01:05 PM	#15
tdmoparguy Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: Okmulgee,OK Posts: 70	I'll take some pics tonight. Do you know how far that is from Henryetta? What happen was it chain fired and hit the hole where the loading lever is. All it did was snap the screw in the loading lever. But everything still works i have shot the gun numerous times after and always clean after i shoot.

April 1, 2009, 06:29 PM	#16
kirpi97 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 236	The advice and information given already is wonderful. I cannot add anything except my preference. I too wanted a Dragoon and a Walker, but at the time could only afford one. After all my research, I settled on the Dragoon. I like both revolvers and you can't go wrong with either. But it came down to the loading arm. I am not into something flopping down when I shoot. So for what it is worth, I chose the Dragoon. It is a Colt 2nd generation. I am still waiting for it to arrive. So I haven't shot it yet to tell you about the bloody knuckle possibilities from the square trigger guard. __________________ The parting shot... "Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson

April 1, 2009, 08:45 PM	#17
Irishman Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Posts: 23	that was my reasoning too. I figured the dragoon had all the design improvements over the walker but still had most of the heft that I like in the Walker

April 1, 2009, 08:50 PM	#18
D.Delozier Member Join Date: March 28, 2009 Location: S.C Posts: 35	I was the same way,wanted a walker but did'nt like the droping lever they are known for.So I bought a uberti 3rd mod. and to my dismay,the first time I shot it the lever fell! And fell almost every shot,but it was an easy fix on the dragoon.You just put a stiffer spring in the lever latch,Have'nt had a problem since.

April 2, 2009, 12:56 AM	#21
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Is that Herryetta or Henryetta? I see what looks like Herryetta there... map typo? O enlarged the pic and it is definately Henryetta... sorry. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

April 3, 2009, 06:30 AM	#22
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	OP- I'm pretty sure that the Walker is the most powerful BP pistol revolver ever made, i.e. it has the largest powder capacity, and was the "magnum" of its day. The Dragoons were basically modified Walkers, designed to make the guns lighter/quicker/easier to point and shoot. A Dragoon is a Walker that was put on a diet. There's no answer to your question- because the only "correct" answer for us BP addicts is- you have to buy all of them. Get the Walker, and 1st-2nd-3rd model Dragoons ! But if I had to choose just one, I'd get the Walker first. It's heavy though.