Working on a jap type 38 - Page 2

F. Guffey · March 17, 2015, 08:41 AM

Quote:

As I said, I test the Japanese rifle by covering the receiver with a white towel. If after firing I find two black stains on the towel I chamber it to 257 Roberts/6.5mm50.

"If after firing I find two black stains on the towel I chamber it to 257 Roberts/6.5mm50" And no one wonders why. If the towel is stained black the barrel is shot out, when fired there is not enough pressure to seal the chamber with the case.

F. Guffey

Gunplummer · March 17, 2015, 04:47 PM

There is really no mistaking a Type 30 for a Type 38 or 99. The difference is pretty obvious. The ejector area is way different than the T-38. Anyway, the chance of someone picking one up at a yard sale are pretty slim. The T-44 is marked as such and the receivers are identical to a T-38 except for the markings. Off and on both rifles were experimented with, but still retained the basic blow holes for each and the ejector systems also.

James K · March 17, 2015, 08:01 PM

"The difference is pretty obvious."

Sure is. My point was that there are Japanese rifles that don't fit neatly into the Type 38/Type 99 slots.

Jim

F. Guffey · March 18, 2015, 08:10 AM

And about the time someone has seen it all a 7mm57 Type 38 shows up.

F. Guffey

James K · March 18, 2015, 08:42 PM

Interesting. If it is original, any chance of pictures?

Jim

Gunplummer · March 20, 2015, 10:52 AM

Mexican contract rifles with the Mexican stamp on the receivers. Only about half were delivered and then Mexico ran out of money.

broknwheel · May 22, 2015, 02:05 AM

I just picked up a 38 sporter, a gunsmith said he though the work was done in the 50's. I have to say it is one of the best jobs I have seen. I will post some pictures when I finish with the scope I am putting on. Every body knows how difficult it is to mount, I am working with a side mount so I can leave the peep site as it was done.Looking forward to nice new scope, to try some long distance shooting with a hot 257 Roberts.

Blindstitch · May 22, 2015, 04:25 AM

Congratulations.

I have a scoped t38 and I've been thinking about picking up another. My only dislike is I wish it took a round that was findable at a big box store. But reloading has gave me great results.

James K · May 22, 2015, 01:48 PM

"if the receiver is the strongest in the world I should be able to chamber one to 8mm Remington mag. "

I don't think the magazine could be opened far enough, but as far as strength goes, why wouldn't one be able to rebarrel or rebore (not rechamber) an Arisaka to 8mm Rem Mag?

Jim

Gunplummer · May 22, 2015, 10:05 PM

The Arisaka action was never touted as "The strongest action in the world". It was tested along with other WWII military issue rifles and was found to be the strongest in the group. Some rifles were awaiting future testing. I would be curious to see how the Russian bolt action stacked up against other rifles. Anything that looks as though it should be bolted to a tractor has to be tough.

I have rebarreled, recut chambers, cut+welded and made a lot of parts for Arisakas. For years I collected them. The T-38 is a somewhat stronger design, but I would not hesitate to rebarrel either a T-38 or a T-99 to 8mm Rem magnum. In my collection, I had a fine example of an Arisaka reworked by the US Military to 30-06, and it was marked as such. An endmill had been run down through the back of the receiver ring putting a notch in the back of both the upper and lower receiver locking lugs. It was a pretty hefty cut so that a 30-06 cartridge could be loaded down through the top. The whole gun was some weird green (parkerized?) color. Guffy is just miffed because the '03 Sprungfield was voted "The most likely to scar your face" rifle.

James K · May 22, 2015, 11:13 PM

Those Type 99's converted to .30-'06 were reportedly issued by the U.S. to South Korean reserves and militia forces during the Korean War. The ammunition was issued in M1903 clips, which worked fine.

I never fired one of those, but I have fired gunsmith-converted Type 99's (often called the ".30 caliber Jap" by U.S. troops), and in spite of the .003 oversize barrels, they shot quite well. (The Type 38 was called the ".25 caliber Jap".)

Jim

Gunplummer · May 22, 2015, 11:23 PM

I never bothered with bayonets, but that one had the matching serial # bayonet and was marked ROK, (Republic of Korea) so I kept it with the rifle. It has been a while since I sold out, but if I remember correctly the left side of the receiver ring was stamped US CAL .30 This was a serious stamp and probably was done with a punch press. These guns had recut chambers and were not rebarreled. So much for not using 30-06 brass to make 7.7 brass. I never fired it, but did have a civilian convert I picked up and it did not shoot to well. Maybe you have seen the T-99's converted to .300 Savage at shows and yard sales. I had bought one once for parts and ended up using it to hunt deer. @ 100 yards with factory Remington ammo it was unbelievably accurate. I also had one recut to .308 and that shot lousy. Hit or miss on the conversions I guess. I still have one I converted to 7.62x39 and I have taken head shots on deer with that one, it so accurate. The weird thing is, I tried a couple different bullets in .311 diameter and the 150 grain .308 diameter Remingtons shoot the best. Go figure.

gyvel · May 23, 2015, 02:47 AM

Quote:

If it was full military then I wouldnt touch it but its been shortened and put in a sporter stock. Sadly it still has the mum

If that's the case, and the receiver hasn't been modified in any way, you could always "restore" it. Barrels, stocks and hardware frequently show up on eBay and other sources.

Just a thought...

James K · May 23, 2015, 06:00 PM

The Japanese probably got Metford rifling and the 7.7 caliber from the .303 British, since Japan and Britain were close allies until the militarists came into control in Japan and took the path that led to WWII. There were three different 7.7 cartridges. The 7.7 rimless was used in the Type 99 rifle; the 7.7 semi-rimmed was used in the feed-strips of the Hotchkiss type heavy machinegun; the 7.7 rimmed was the .303 British, used in the Imperial Navy's license-built Lewis guns. The latter were used in flexible aircraft mounts and also as ground guns by the Navy landing teams (called "Jap Marines" by our troops).

The three types of 7.7 are not interchangeable.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · May 23, 2015, 07:44 PM

Carbide drill bit should do the trick.

Forging a bolt handle is a matter of getting it hot enough and then bending it. We hammered ours down and swept it back.

mwells72774 · May 24, 2015, 11:20 AM

Did some trading and got it tapped and bolt bent. Not the most comfy but it'll wotk. Looks pretty slick now. Havent had a range day yet. Too wet outside

F. Guffey · May 24, 2015, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Guffy is just miffed because the '03 Sprungfield was voted "The most likely to scar your face" rifle.

Thank you fellow members for including me. I am the one that accused Springfield working with WWHUA, 'WORKING WHILE HEAD UP DONKEY'. They could not figure how to build the 30/40 Crag with 2 lugs so they built it with one and then decided it did not need two. They built 800,000 +rifles a few rifles and could not trace a failure to a single event, cause or person. And Hatcher said, he did not say or suggest someone should have a clue, the outside diameter of the 03 is the same outside diameter as the small ring Mauser, but, the small ring Mauser had a small diameter shank/barrel. The Springfield 03 has a large diameter shank. Meaning the 03 has a thinner front receiver than the Mauser small ring receiver.

Then there was the short buggy ride from Springfield down to New Haven. John Browning spent a lot of time at the patent office, there he found nickel steel. He refused to release the Model 94 Winchester in 1894 because of smokeless powder. He added nickel steel to some parts of the M94. The Model 94 was released for sale in 1895.

The model P1914 and M 1917 were built with nickel steel. Springfield did not discover nickel steel until the 1920s.

I have Japanese rifles. I should say most of them became receivers as in actions with bolts and parts. There is something no one talks about when making observations about the receivers. A conditioned response on the Internet is "Strongest receiver in the world", in the real world I always respond with: "Forget the receiver, give me the cases that did not blow up because the cases that did not blow up have to be the strongest cases in the world".

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · May 24, 2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Carbide drill bit should do the trick.

There is another way, an old way.

F. Guffey

Gunplummer · May 24, 2015, 03:56 PM

I have never used a carbide drill to drill scope base holes in an Arisaka receiver. The receiver is not case hardened, it is medium hard all the way through. You do not need a carbide drill to "Spot" through an outer case hardened shell. Patience is needed in both the drilling and tapping when you work with hardened steels. You need to slow down a little. "High Speed Steel" does not mean run the drill as fast as you can. There are other rifles that I believe are made of the same material and heat treated to about the same level. Exceptionally strong does not mean exceptionally hard.

polyphemus · May 24, 2015, 04:24 PM

Quote:

If it was full military then I wouldnt touch it

Why would that be? I have been following this thread because I just happen to own one of those flower and all in excellent military condition came down from a tree with a five round clip on Bouganville,the Solomons.
Granted I am not a rifle guy but it don't look to me like a particularly ingenious
or exceptional firearm just a military weapon this is why I wondered why you would not touch it, as far as can tell it has little intrinsec value.

James K · May 24, 2015, 08:38 PM

I always liked the Arisaka not because of its supposed strength, but because of its ingenious safety system and the resulting simplicity of its bolt. Its bolt has the fewest parts of any bolt in the world and is the easiest to disassemble for cleaning. The safety is perhaps the easiest to work, also.

Jim

mwells72774 · May 24, 2015, 10:19 PM

I agree james k. With the scope mounted its easy to out the safety.

Gunplummer · May 25, 2015, 11:58 AM

Finally, people that have actually used them to hunt with. I have used all kinds of military bolt actions to hunt with and it is the lightest, easiest rifle to put a scope on and still use the original safety. The only exception I see is the French MAS 36. Ariasaka safeties are really quick to use once you get used to them. I still take other guns into the woods, but my Arisakas are my "Go to" rifles.

James K · May 25, 2015, 09:21 PM

The MAS 36 doesn't have a safety, unless it is one of those put on by the importer. I should have said that the Arisaka has the simplest bolt in the world that includes a safety.

Jim

Gunplummer · May 26, 2015, 02:00 AM

Can't get easier than none! I actually did see a guy with one during deer season once, and the bolt was closed. I dunno, maybe there was none in the chamber. The Carcano isn't too bad, but it sucks to mount the scope.

May 22, 2015, 02:05 AM	#32
broknwheel Junior Member Join Date: May 20, 2015 Location: Huntington Beach Ca. Posts: 3	scope mount arisaka 38 I just picked up a 38 sporter, a gunsmith said he though the work was done in the 50's. I have to say it is one of the best jobs I have seen. I will post some pictures when I finish with the scope I am putting on. Every body knows how difficult it is to mount, I am working with a side mount so I can leave the peep site as it was done.Looking forward to nice new scope, to try some long distance shooting with a hot 257 Roberts.

May 22, 2015, 11:13 PM	#36
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Those Type 99's converted to .30-'06 were reportedly issued by the U.S. to South Korean reserves and militia forces during the Korean War. The ammunition was issued in M1903 clips, which worked fine. I never fired one of those, but I have fired gunsmith-converted Type 99's (often called the ".30 caliber Jap" by U.S. troops), and in spite of the .003 oversize barrels, they shot quite well. (The Type 38 was called the ".25 caliber Jap".) Jim Last edited by James K; May 22, 2015 at 11:18 PM.

May 22, 2015, 11:23 PM	#37
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I never bothered with bayonets, but that one had the matching serial # bayonet and was marked ROK, (Republic of Korea) so I kept it with the rifle. It has been a while since I sold out, but if I remember correctly the left side of the receiver ring was stamped US CAL .30 This was a serious stamp and probably was done with a punch press. These guns had recut chambers and were not rebarreled. So much for not using 30-06 brass to make 7.7 brass. I never fired it, but did have a civilian convert I picked up and it did not shoot to well. Maybe you have seen the T-99's converted to .300 Savage at shows and yard sales. I had bought one once for parts and ended up using it to hunt deer. @ 100 yards with factory Remington ammo it was unbelievably accurate. I also had one recut to .308 and that shot lousy. Hit or miss on the conversions I guess. I still have one I converted to 7.62x39 and I have taken head shots on deer with that one, it so accurate. The weird thing is, I tried a couple different bullets in .311 diameter and the 150 grain .308 diameter Remingtons shoot the best. Go figure. Last edited by Gunplummer; May 22, 2015 at 11:40 PM.

May 23, 2015, 07:44 PM	#40
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Carbide drill bit should do the trick. Forging a bolt handle is a matter of getting it hot enough and then bending it. We hammered ours down and swept it back. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 17, 2015, 04:47 PM	#27
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	There is really no mistaking a Type 30 for a Type 38 or 99. The difference is pretty obvious. The ejector area is way different than the T-38. Anyway, the chance of someone picking one up at a yard sale are pretty slim. The T-44 is marked as such and the receivers are identical to a T-38 except for the markings. Off and on both rifles were experimented with, but still retained the basic blow holes for each and the ejector systems also.

March 17, 2015, 08:01 PM	#28
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"The difference is pretty obvious." Sure is. My point was that there are Japanese rifles that don't fit neatly into the Type 38/Type 99 slots. Jim

March 18, 2015, 08:10 AM	#29
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	And about the time someone has seen it all a 7mm57 Type 38 shows up. F. Guffey

March 18, 2015, 08:42 PM	#30
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Interesting. If it is original, any chance of pictures? Jim

March 20, 2015, 10:52 AM	#31
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Mexican contract rifles with the Mexican stamp on the receivers. Only about half were delivered and then Mexico ran out of money.

May 22, 2015, 04:25 AM	#33
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	Congratulations. I have a scoped t38 and I've been thinking about picking up another. My only dislike is I wish it took a round that was findable at a big box store. But reloading has gave me great results.

May 22, 2015, 01:48 PM	#34
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"if the receiver is the strongest in the world I should be able to chamber one to 8mm Remington mag. " I don't think the magazine could be opened far enough, but as far as strength goes, why wouldn't one be able to rebarrel or rebore (not rechamber) an Arisaka to 8mm Rem Mag? Jim

May 22, 2015, 10:05 PM	#35
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	The Arisaka action was never touted as "The strongest action in the world". It was tested along with other WWII military issue rifles and was found to be the strongest in the group. Some rifles were awaiting future testing. I would be curious to see how the Russian bolt action stacked up against other rifles. Anything that looks as though it should be bolted to a tractor has to be tough. I have rebarreled, recut chambers, cut+welded and made a lot of parts for Arisakas. For years I collected them. The T-38 is a somewhat stronger design, but I would not hesitate to rebarrel either a T-38 or a T-99 to 8mm Rem magnum. In my collection, I had a fine example of an Arisaka reworked by the US Military to 30-06, and it was marked as such. An endmill had been run down through the back of the receiver ring putting a notch in the back of both the upper and lower receiver locking lugs. It was a pretty hefty cut so that a 30-06 cartridge could be loaded down through the top. The whole gun was some weird green (parkerized?) color. Guffy is just miffed because the '03 Sprungfield was voted "The most likely to scar your face" rifle.

May 23, 2015, 06:00 PM	#39
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The Japanese probably got Metford rifling and the 7.7 caliber from the .303 British, since Japan and Britain were close allies until the militarists came into control in Japan and took the path that led to WWII. There were three different 7.7 cartridges. The 7.7 rimless was used in the Type 99 rifle; the 7.7 semi-rimmed was used in the feed-strips of the Hotchkiss type heavy machinegun; the 7.7 rimmed was the .303 British, used in the Imperial Navy's license-built Lewis guns. The latter were used in flexible aircraft mounts and also as ground guns by the Navy landing teams (called "Jap Marines" by our troops). The three types of 7.7 are not interchangeable. Jim

May 24, 2015, 11:20 AM	#41
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	Did some trading and got it tapped and bolt bent. Not the most comfy but it'll wotk. Looks pretty slick now. Havent had a range day yet. Too wet outside

May 24, 2015, 03:56 PM	#44
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I have never used a carbide drill to drill scope base holes in an Arisaka receiver. The receiver is not case hardened, it is medium hard all the way through. You do not need a carbide drill to "Spot" through an outer case hardened shell. Patience is needed in both the drilling and tapping when you work with hardened steels. You need to slow down a little. "High Speed Steel" does not mean run the drill as fast as you can. There are other rifles that I believe are made of the same material and heat treated to about the same level. Exceptionally strong does not mean exceptionally hard.

May 24, 2015, 08:38 PM	#46
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I always liked the Arisaka not because of its supposed strength, but because of its ingenious safety system and the resulting simplicity of its bolt. Its bolt has the fewest parts of any bolt in the world and is the easiest to disassemble for cleaning. The safety is perhaps the easiest to work, also. Jim

May 24, 2015, 10:19 PM	#47
mwells72774 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 325	I agree james k. With the scope mounted its easy to out the safety.

May 25, 2015, 11:58 AM	#48
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Finally, people that have actually used them to hunt with. I have used all kinds of military bolt actions to hunt with and it is the lightest, easiest rifle to put a scope on and still use the original safety. The only exception I see is the French MAS 36. Ariasaka safeties are really quick to use once you get used to them. I still take other guns into the woods, but my Arisakas are my "Go to" rifles.

May 25, 2015, 09:21 PM	#49
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The MAS 36 doesn't have a safety, unless it is one of those put on by the importer. I should have said that the Arisaka has the simplest bolt in the world that includes a safety. Jim

May 26, 2015, 02:00 AM	#50
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Can't get easier than none! I actually did see a guy with one during deer season once, and the bolt was closed. I dunno, maybe there was none in the chamber. The Carcano isn't too bad, but it sucks to mount the scope.