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Old February 17, 2018, 10:43 AM   #26
3Crows
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So then, what would be a good 1800 fps gas checked HCL FP load or data source?

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Old February 19, 2018, 11:43 AM   #27
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The Lyman Reloading Handbook has some info on that powder for 30-30. I am sorry, I do not put loads on the internet. Too easy for a finger slip to give someone a bad load. Do get the manual.
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Old February 19, 2018, 11:56 AM   #28
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"A 1200 to 1600 fps 170 grain cast load from a 30-30, what can you do with that?"

Oh don't worry "that" will put down a deer or any other critter you might shoot. The trick is, with any rifle, Hit The Target! That requires that you be familiar with the gun and ammo and know how to shoot! My point is Learn to Shoot!
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Old February 19, 2018, 08:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamaica View Post
The Lyman Reloading Handbook has some info on that powder for 30-30. I am sorry, I do not put loads on the internet. Too easy for a finger slip to give someone a bad load. Do get the manual.
I have the Lyman manual, thank you but I do not see any 2000 fps plus cast lead loads? I asked for an example load or the data source. You say it is the Lyman manual, perhaps mine is too old to have that. Here is some, Handloader Magazine, kinda old, so might work up and my fingers did not slip at all though maybe a little doing the Mac screenshot:

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...l63partial.pdf



I shoot quite well and can hit where I aim most times, of course most people can hit where they are aiming though where they are aiming might not be where they think they are aiming . I would not be generally one of them. I will stay with my opinion, the OP can decide for himself, if he is willing to give up 600 or more feet per second on his 30-30. I am sure for 50 yards or so a 170 grain at a muzzle velocity of 1600 fps will be useful, at 200 yards plus, not so much. You can say what you like but you are giving up a significant amount of velocity and energy with a 170 grain cast lead over a full power 160/170 grain jacketed load at 2200 to 2400 fps.

And that was the point I was making with the 45-70, nothing is lost there, what velocity is given up, if any, for cast lead is easy to gain back by throwing a heavier bullet. Maybe if there was a 200-230 grain cast lead that would cycle, is there for the 30-30, if so!

So I went looking. It does appear some folks are driving GC hard cast lead up to 2200 fps! Interesting. So that leaves only the Micro Groove rifling issue for Marlin shooters. Very interesting.

3C

Last edited by 3Crows; February 19, 2018 at 09:02 PM.
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Old February 25, 2018, 09:53 PM   #30
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.30-30 was the first centerfire I reloaded and IMR3031 was good but my Marlin liked Re11. That one isn’t available anymore. So I ended up rechambering to AI. My rifle prefers the Speer 130FP and 748 but others work well too. The whole project has stalled and I’ve lost interest. The grandkids live far away so my trigger time is shrinking. The end of life approaches too fast and I feel like I spent too much time working and not enough shooting.
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Old February 27, 2018, 05:17 PM   #31
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For 30-30 you might consider Unique, IMR 4227, IMR 4198
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Old February 28, 2018, 10:35 AM   #32
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cast 30-3-

Again, I am impressed with the information on this forum. I had to laugh when I found the 4064 powder listed as the accuracy load for several cast bullets. I am going to load up a half dozen and see how I like them. Since there is hardly any place on my property that I can see 100 yards, I have no need for HOT LOADS. The deer in my area are not noted for large size and the only other beast is a bear that sometimes wanders thru and damages a fruit tree or two. I am actually going to hunt with my 6.5 Jap, since it is scoped and my old eyes take too long to focus on iron sights, but the Winchester is fun to shoot. Thanks again for all of the info. ____Grant.
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Old March 5, 2018, 12:16 AM   #33
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I like 4198 for my cast 30-30 loads.
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Old March 5, 2018, 01:02 AM   #34
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use to reload 30-31. Didn't care for its sharp recoil.
On a tip I tried AA#2230 found it worked well for all bullets I reload_ jacketed_ Cast and paper/patched cast. Haven't found a equivalent or one better. Since 2230 is a ball powder not a stick powder so it measures well.
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Old April 19, 2018, 09:45 PM   #35
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Well I finally got around to shooting a few of my cast bullet loads. I used 34 gr of 4064 and 170 gr cast bullets from a Lee mold ( they came out at 163 gr) and all seemed normal other than a grey film on the hood of my truck. I was using the truck as a rest and the cast loads gave a gray powder/film each shot. I shot some factory jacketed rounds and they didnt leave the film. I am wondering if it is from the cast bullets with gas checks being driven too fast or does 4064 tend to be a dirty powder? I got the data from the third post on this thread so it was not some home brew idea. I shot a couple without gas checks and it didnt seem to make any difference. Any ideas??? Grant.
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Old April 19, 2018, 10:04 PM   #36
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I made a slight mistake in my prior comment. I do not use 2230 under paper patched cast. I do use a duplex loading for the P/p purpose. Surplus WC-860 and IMR 4227. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old April 20, 2018, 06:37 AM   #37
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The film is from burned bullet lube. It happens with cast lead.
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Old April 20, 2018, 09:56 AM   #38
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Thanks,M&P. I hadnt thought of that. The load seemed to shoot well with a little less recoil and noise than the factory rounds, so I will load up some more and see if they are reasonably accurate. This old Model 94 has a flip up tang sight which I dont like so I am going to put a Lyman on the receiver. I think things are going to work out well with learning to reload. Thanks All. ____Grant.
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Old October 11, 2018, 09:02 PM   #39
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Months later I am back. I want to note that I made a mistake when I said I used 34 grs of 4064. It was 24 grs of IMR 4064. I have another thread about a Savage 99 that missfired. I solved that problem but my reloads are all over the paper but factory ammo seems to shoot pretty well. My bullet casting didnt turn out too well so I bought Oregon Trails 165 gr hard cast bullets in .310. I also picked up a pound of 3031 at a gun show and I think I will load up a dozen with that powder and see if it is anymore accurate. My old #44 Lyman manual shows starting at 22 grs of 3031 with 173 gr gaschecks so I will use that as a starting point for the 165 gr hard cast bullet. Another experiment but a light load experiment. Grant
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Old October 11, 2018, 09:24 PM   #40
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I've have best accuracy with AA2230 and H322
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Old October 12, 2018, 12:00 AM   #41
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3031 is the only 30-30 powder with the load in its name. 30 to 31 grains.
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Old October 12, 2018, 05:49 AM   #42
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I'm running 16.5 gr of 2400 with the cast 170 gr rnfp gas checked. I'm at about 1640 fps from my Henry 30-30. Nice easy load that shoots about 2.5 moa at 100 yds with an optic and off a sturdy rest.
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Old October 12, 2018, 09:55 AM   #43
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Let us know how it turns out. It's hard to go wrong with IMR3031 in the .30-30, just don't overdrive those cast bullets. I'm assuming they are not gas checked.

If you are interested, I have a bit of load data from my Marlin 336 with 173grn cast and IMR3031, with chrono readings, if you want.
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Old October 12, 2018, 11:10 AM   #44
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The Oregon Trail bullets say you can load jacket speeds without leading. I am not the least bit interested in the hottest load out of a 100+ year old rifle. I think I will try several loads. A few more with the 4064 powder but run the bullets thru a .308 sizer. A few using 3031 with the bullets at .310 and a few sized to .308. I may be beating a dead horse with this old rifle since the factory loads group fine, but the primers backed out a little. That didnt happen with my lighter cast loads. I am afraid there is a headspace problem. I did a search on setting a barrel back on a Savage 1899 and it seems like buying a new gun would not cost a lot more. I like the old Savage so I will experiment a bit longer before I give up. ______Grant.
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Old October 12, 2018, 03:45 PM   #45
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Quote:
but run the bullets thru a .308 sizer.
My 100+ year old Marlin doesn't come in till the (cast) bullets get to .310"...

It absolutely loves Federal Blue Box 170gr, but I keep the full power jacketed rounds to a minimum...
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Old October 12, 2018, 04:23 PM   #46
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Ya, I wouldn't get too carried away sizing those cast bullets down... a cast bullet and a jacketed bullet act very different in the bore. As an experiment, sure, and I can see the utility of that. I would also abandon IMR4064 and just stick with IMR3031.

I run .309" bullets in both my 336 and Savage 99 (.308WIN) and they work pretty well, but I was prepared to go to .310" if I needed to.
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Old October 12, 2018, 05:22 PM   #47
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Your 34 gr powder charge (4064) is spot on. But~ since its a Compressed Powder Charge (and the only IMR load listed for IMR 4064 use w/170 gr. bullets)
Here's what I would do or suggest to another shooter.
1. Cut the powder measure back a little say {1 or 2 grain reduction} for a start point.

2. Shoot 2 shots to group.

3. Check the target every two shots. (Seeing a crummy grouping) increase the powder charge a 1/2 grain for the next 2 shots.
{Can require a further reduction: if the grouping worsens.}

4. (like what you see.) Fine tune that Charging in both direction {up & down} by 2/10th at a time.

5. No doubt you'll soon discover the rifles targeting sweet spot. i.e. tightest grouping.

6.Then it just a simple adjustment of the rear sight (up or down ~ or moving the rear sight to the direction you want the bullet to follow. Left or Right.

Otherwise. Wanting to shoot 165 gr High BHN cast lead. Not a big deal. Just follow the (above) directions as told. Keep in mind your 4064 powder is a Max loading. Better than 2100 fps achieved. Reducing that Powder Charge a little >won't hurt too.
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Old October 12, 2018, 07:01 PM   #48
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Everyone has a powder of choice, mine LVR works great for me my 30/30s love it !!!!
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Old October 13, 2018, 11:37 AM   #49
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Sure Shot, where do you see 34 grs of 4064 as a cast bullet load? I had previously posted 34 grs but I was incorrect. I am using 24 grs. In the second or third post on this thread there is a listing for 24 grs of 4064 and 165 gr cast bullet as an accuracy load. Yesterday I loaded up some variety. 24 grs of 4064 with bullets sized to 308. I already know that with 310s it is all over the paper. Some 3031 loads at 24 grs and 310 bullets, some 3031 loads with 308 bullets and some 3031 loads with 26 grs and 310 and also 26 grs with 308. I will get out in the next few days and see how it goes. I am doing this in a 1904 Savage 1899 but I will also try these in my sons Winchester 94. I am having fun. ____Grant.
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Old October 13, 2018, 05:14 PM   #50
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Cast in a 30-30 10 grains Unique
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