The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 23, 2023, 03:52 AM   #1
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 1,002
25-06 loads

I have been reloading for a while so I am not a newbie, I did just start reloading for the 25-06, I inherited a ruger 77 from my brother and some ammo he had reloaded for it so I was all set on that rifle, the ruger being a bit heavy but a real shooter I decided to get a lighter version so I found a used Winchester model 70 ultimate shadow, barrel is 2" shorter and lighter profile. I started with 117gr bullets, Hornady and sierra but couldnt get it to group well, tried to some 110 hornady ftx and its coming into it now, I have worked up to almost max load and Ive got about a 2" group. My question is and I think I read it somewhere on here before, does the 25-06 prefer a max load for best accuracy? Right now I am playing with bullet jump to try to get my groups smaller. Any other thoughts?
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 05:27 AM   #2
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,653
I don't know about preferring max load--like most cartridges probably depends on type of powder/primer/bullet combination.. I have a savage axis in 25-06 sporter barrel--funny enough I was just thinking about tryin it out since I haven't fired it in a very long time. I've had good results using IMR 4831 with 120 gr gamekings.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; April 23, 2023 at 05:36 AM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 06:26 AM   #3
Shadow9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,947
Whats the barrels twist rate?
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.
Shadow9mm is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 07:36 AM   #4
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 1,002
According to the specs its a 1in10
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 10:28 AM   #5
LeverGunFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 405
My Model 700 in 25-06 with 1 in 10 twist preferred shorter bullets; the Sierra 87 grain shot consistently better groups than the Sierra 117 grain boat tails. So getting better groups with the 110 grain FTX vs the 117 grain makes sense to me. The 25-06 would benefit from a quicker twist rate, but the practice back then was for longer twist rates for the 87 to 90 grain light varmint bullets.
__________________
Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition
LeverGunFan is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 11:04 AM   #6
ocharry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2006
Posts: 681
i know this aint the same ...but....

i have a savage 99 in 250AI...so it is stepping it out there...not quit as fast as the 25-06 but its over 3100fps...

the barrel has been swapped out to a douglas and it is a 1-10 twist...now this ol gal is a killing machine....but she dont care for the bullets in the 110 and heavier class...but oh how she loves them 100gr seirra soft point game king bullets and h4895

so yeah i would give the 90-100gr class bullets a try

ymmv
__________________
The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC
ocharry is online now  
Old April 23, 2023, 01:44 PM   #7
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,653
25-06 is a classic cartridge that has stood the test of time even though a slew of new sexy cartridges have appeared on the runways of fashion shows of Paris. I just noticed that sierra has discontinued it's 120 gr HPBT gameking--major bummer since I found it to be very accurate and one I'd confidently shoot larger game to a fair distance. Oh well.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 03:13 PM   #8
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,675
Quote:
does the 25-06 prefer a max load for best accuracy?
Every rifle is a law unto itself in this regard. Most guns usually turn in their best groups somewhere below max load levels, but there are guns that shoot their best at full max. Your gun is what it is, and there's no way to know what it does best without shooting and finding out.

What is your intended primary use for the rifle??

I grew up in the NE, where the .25-06 was the ultimate long range woodchuck gun. Buddy of mine got a Rem 700V and using the 87gr HPs over a case full of IMR 4350 regularly destroyed chucks out to 500yds.

OF course nobody carried those heavy barrel varmint rigs in the deer woods.

Moved out west and found out most used the .25-06 for antelope and deer, and while the 117/120gr slugs were everywhere, finding my favorite 87s on the shelf was nearly impossible. One box I did find turned out to be Hornady with a warning not to drive them over 3400fps, so I had to load DOWN to use them....
(yes, those were pre-internet days)

A light weight sporter class rifle that does 2" (or a bit less) is entirely adequate for deer class game. Despite the internet telling us everything shoots sub MOA, in the real world some rifles simply won't.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 04:28 PM   #9
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 1,002
44amp, I totally get what your saying and trust me, I do shoot my rifles, my ruger77 25-06 shoots under 1in groups and I know some rifles just won't, am I ok with a 2"group deer rifle, absolutely, will I try to get 1 in our of it, I'll surely try. That's the whole fun of reloading, right?
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old April 23, 2023, 09:20 PM   #10
joed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2014
Posts: 442
I've owned and shot a Rem 700 VS in 25-06 for 45 years. It is now on its second barrel and I've enjoyed this rifle every time I shoot it.

My observations have been that the .25-06 likes to be loaded near max for best performance and accuracy. If you're not near max load velocity will be close to a .257 Roberts. I always tried to stay with powders that pretty much filled the case and left little air space. When it comes to primers best have been Fed BR and Winchester.

Many prefer to use H4831 but my rifle preferred IMR4831 and IMR4350. For the last 15 years I've used a lot of RL19 with outstanding results. Like 44 AMP I've shot mostly bullets in the 85 to 90 gr weight class. For 117 bullets I would use RL22 and it has given me excellent results.
__________________
The 6 gun was once as common as the cellphone is today, and just as annoying when it went off in the theater.
joed is offline  
Old April 25, 2023, 07:57 AM   #11
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,653
If I rebarrel my old savage 25-06--which I bought used--I'd probably do it in 1:7 twist 25-06 AI; both newer powders and newer higher BC/SD bullets certainly put the base 30-06 well within its capabilities as a serious long range quarter bore shooter IMO.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old April 29, 2023, 02:28 AM   #12
WestDivide
Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 19
WHY

such a tight twist? While no empirical data, I'd think that at AI velocities, you'd run the risk of bullets coming apart, especially the little ones. Wouldn't 1:10 handle the biggest 25 cal bullets?

Although, my AI handles Speer 87 TNT's without breaking up. It has a 12 twist 26 inch tube. I chrono them at 3750-3775. I'm hoping the bbl will last through the box of 750 I got a couple years ago.

From what Ackley said about the 2506 AI, I'd do a 250AI the next time around, if there is one. I've rather gotten over my speed freaking and magnumitis, Probably gonna sell my 300 Win.

The 2506AI was/is a fun learning experience though. And, it does achieve good air time on the pds.

FWIW, -West out
WestDivide is offline  
Old April 29, 2023, 06:08 AM   #13
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,653
Quote:
such a tight twist? While no empirical data, I'd think that at AI velocities, you'd run the risk of bullets coming apart, especially the little ones. Wouldn't 1:10 handle the biggest 25 cal bullets?
Because of the newer heavier very high BC .257 bullets, almost all of which are beyond the former 1:10 twist tops of 120 gr. The basic design of the existing 25-06 chamber accommodates these newer bullets with no need for modification as far as I can tell. I don't care about varminting with the 25-06. I did a 25PRC but found it to be a real pain to make brass for and no dies are made for it either. Yes, adapting the 6.5 PRC dies with bushings works OK--but still a pain. Existing 25-06 is right there with everything you need for the new bullets except a faster twist.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; April 29, 2023 at 06:17 AM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old April 30, 2023, 04:18 AM   #14
Mike / Tx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2000
Posts: 2,101
I have both a standard chambered and the AI version. The standard one came into it own after about the 2nd year and working through several different 100gr bullets. I found that the Nosler BT and Partition both shot extremely well over both Hodgdon and IMR-4831. The issue I had was with drift at longer ranges. I bumped up to the 115gr Partition over RL22 and never looked back. This one will drive the 110gr Accubond or 115gr Partition into 1" or less out to as far as you can hold them together. The only bullet I had issues with was the 100gr Sierra. Just couldn't get them to group under 2-3" at best no matter what. I called Sierra and after about 15min on the phone with one of their tech's I loaded up 5 rounds with IMR-4350 and the group was a clover leaf ragged hole.

As mentioned on the heavier weight bullets, my AI was purpose built for reaching out and smacking feral hogs. It sports a 28" 1-8 Broughton 5C. It is fast enough to go up to a 135gr, but I prefer the 120's due to broader selection and the added velocity. It doesn't even square the primers off at 3300fps over Ramshot Magnum. It will get right up to 2950 with the longer heavier weights but if I'm gonna run them, I'd just as soon use the 270. Funny thing about the 120's, the discontinued Nosler Solid Base is the absolute most accurate, tied with it is the 120gr Rem CL, followed close by the Hornady 120gr HPBT.

Due to the difficulty in finding some powders I might suggest looking at Ramshot or Accurate. I've seen them listed more so than the others and from their 4350, 3100, Magpro, Big Game, and Magnum, they meter easy and produce accurate loads. I have never used mag primers in either rifle but do use the CCI BR2 in the AI loads. I just found it to be the most consistent with the load I settled on.
__________________
LAter,
Mike / TX
Mike / Tx is offline  
Old May 4, 2023, 04:13 PM   #15
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 1,002
I took the advice from a response here and I found some 100gr btsp speer bullets, loaded according to the manual " most accurate load, 35 thousands jump to the lands. Hopefully I got the picture to upload
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20230504_140637751.jpg (416.7 KB, 47 views)
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old May 5, 2023, 06:25 AM   #16
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,653
Nice shooting.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 5, 2023, 06:30 AM   #17
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 1,002
I have found that once you find the right load the shooting part just falls right into place
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Old May 5, 2023, 07:02 AM   #18
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,653
Quote:
I have found that once you find the right load the shooting part just falls right into place
It's nice when that happens, isn't it?
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 5, 2023, 07:08 AM   #19
NHSHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2012
Location: Concord NH
Posts: 1,002
You couldn't be more right, finally switching to 100 grain bullet and different powder did the trick probably to my 10th try but it finally worked out
NHSHOOTER is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10157 seconds with 11 queries