Lyman 358156 for 9mm

458winshooter · July 10, 2018, 11:17 AM

Has anyone ever tried or seen any load data for this combination of bullet and case. Since the 9mm is loaded up to 35,000 psi it would seem like a natural fit being that it is a gas checked design.Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

rodfac · July 10, 2018, 12:11 PM

I tried it many years ago, (circa 1973), sized 0.356" but the amount of springback in the gas check produced a bulge in the cases I was using. The combination of that springback (the check would not size down to 0.356",) & the internal taper of the 9mm case would not allow chambering in the Browning Hi-Power I was working with...an early '68 vintage gun.

Annealing the gas check would help as that eliminates most spring back, and a change in brass might help. Since then, I stick with Lyman's 356402 or Missouri Bullet Co's, 124 gr LSWC's with good results. Two of my Sigs (P226 Mk25 & M11A1) will consistently do sub-2" gps at 25yds, as will a newer vintage BHP with either of those two pills.

BTW, that 358156 gc or Mihec's clone of it, is my standard .38 Spl or .357 Magnum bullet. I feed a cpl Smith 637's, a Smith M36, two M19's and a M60, as well as three Ruger BH's. It's a hellofa bullet. Also very good in Marlin's 1894 .357 Carbine.

HTH's Rod

T. O'Heir · July 10, 2018, 12:18 PM

Bullet will be too long and is the wrong diameter for 9mm. No using .358" bullets in 9mm.

**Unclenick** · July 10, 2018, 12:27 PM

You can size a bullet down a couple of thousandths pretty easily, but sizing down too far tends to work against best accuracy because it can lead to asymmetric distortion of the shape. It just depends upon how true the bullet was to begin with and how perfectly you center it in the sizing die.

gwpercle · July 10, 2018, 02:00 PM

I have done it . Years ago . Sized .357 and shot in a WWII Walther P38 with a long throat, as compared to modern 9mm's with little or no throat.
The bullet is rather long and doesn't leave a lot of room for powder.
Notes show Red Dot , 700X and Bullseye were used . The 155 grain bullet is on the heavy side , don't try to push velocties . After a little fooling around I got a load that would feed fire and eject. Accuracy was fair
To be honest ....a 124 grain truncated cone cast bullet with a gas check has worked best.
The Mould came from NOE .
The 358156 can be made to work , just be mindful of the reduced powder space .
Gary

458winshooter · July 12, 2018, 12:47 PM

After posting I found some info on loading heavy bullets in the 9mm and alot of what has been said is true sizing down .001 or .002 I wouldn't think would matter if I left off the gas check, a lot of the heavier bullets are tappered or boattailed , but the 160 gr stuff being offered on the internet for 9mm is even longer than the 358156.Measuring the 358156 vs a 147 xtp and there isn't as much of a difference in length.There was also a load that I think fiocchi offered at one time that used a 158 swc in the 9mm but from what I can tell it was on par with a 38 spl namely 850 fps or so.

74A95 · July 12, 2018, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

Bullet will be too long and is the wrong diameter for 9mm. No using .358" bullets in 9mm.

Wrong as usual.

Fiocchi, IMI and PPU have 158 grain factory loads in the 9mm. Freedom Munitions loads 165 grain bullets in factory ammo.

Then there's this: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloadi...-in-9mm-luger/

.358 bullets are okay in the 9mm if they fit your chamber. As far as oversize bullets are concerned, Schuemann (barrel maker) recommends a jacketed bullet of .001 to .002 inches larger, and lead bullets .002 to .003 inches larger, for the best accuracy.

Jim Watson · July 12, 2018, 09:06 PM

I have READ of annealing gas checks. That might avoid spring-back that leaves them too large.

Paul B. · July 12, 2018, 09:58 PM

"Bullet will be too long and is the wrong diameter for 9mm. No using .358" bullets in 9mm.+

That bullet may or may not be too long. I haven't tried it. However you should slug the barrels of several makes of 9MM semi-autos. Ruger P-85/.3570", Taurus PT99/.3571)", and S&W 69.06, .3573" estimated. Five groove barrels are hard to measure without special tools. I size my 9MM bullets to .358". Results are better accuracy from all three guns and leading reduced to almost zero.

I learned that trick years ago when a buddy had a genuine 9MM Luger P08. Shooting cast gave dismal results and leading horrendous. He was sizing to the nominal .356". I slugged his barrel and bullets sized .3755" shot decent groups and leading greatly reduced in that gun. Bore was a bit on the rough side so could not totally reduce leading.

The only thing that needs to be checked is if the cartridges will chamber. A .358 bullet will make the neck of the case a bit on the fat side so making several dummy rounds and doing a plunk and feeding test with show if it will work in a specific firearm.
Paul B.

azjohn · July 13, 2018, 08:01 AM

I loaded and shot this bullet in my S&W 439. Shot as sized for 357. You always want lead bullets fatter than jacketed. Do the plunk test and try and keep the length as long as you can. I used a light charge of bullseye, somewhere around 3 grains or less if I remember right.
TO KNOW IS TO EXPERIENCE

David R · July 13, 2018, 10:37 AM

I have anealed 22 gas checks. Had a .228 boolit, could not get the checks on. Heated some in a coffee can. Worked great.

Boolits were left as cast and lubed with liquid alox. I shoot then in my 222/20 over under with 8 grains unique for about 1600 fps.

My new RO Champion has a huge lead. I can load 125 XTP (for 357) to 1.210". I even bought a 38 super magazine.

Will try some .358 SWC that are coated with the 38 super magazine.

David

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

July 10, 2018, 11:17 AM	#1
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	Lyman 358156 for 9mm Has anyone ever tried or seen any load data for this combination of bullet and case. Since the 9mm is loaded up to 35,000 psi it would seem like a natural fit being that it is a gas checked design.Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

July 10, 2018, 12:11 PM	#2
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,624	I tried it many years ago, (circa 1973), sized 0.356" but the amount of springback in the gas check produced a bulge in the cases I was using. The combination of that springback (the check would not size down to 0.356",) & the internal taper of the 9mm case would not allow chambering in the Browning Hi-Power I was working with...an early '68 vintage gun. Annealing the gas check would help as that eliminates most spring back, and a change in brass might help. Since then, I stick with Lyman's 356402 or Missouri Bullet Co's, 124 gr LSWC's with good results. Two of my Sigs (P226 Mk25 & M11A1) will consistently do sub-2" gps at 25yds, as will a newer vintage BHP with either of those two pills. BTW, that 358156 gc or Mihec's clone of it, is my standard .38 Spl or .357 Magnum bullet. I feed a cpl Smith 637's, a Smith M36, two M19's and a M60, as well as three Ruger BH's. It's a hellofa bullet. Also very good in Marlin's 1894 .357 Carbine. HTH's Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

July 10, 2018, 12:18 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Bullet will be too long and is the wrong diameter for 9mm. No using .358" bullets in 9mm. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 10, 2018, 12:27 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	You can size a bullet down a couple of thousandths pretty easily, but sizing down too far tends to work against best accuracy because it can lead to asymmetric distortion of the shape. It just depends upon how true the bullet was to begin with and how perfectly you center it in the sizing die. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 12, 2018, 12:47 PM	#6
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	9mm After posting I found some info on loading heavy bullets in the 9mm and alot of what has been said is true sizing down .001 or .002 I wouldn't think would matter if I left off the gas check, a lot of the heavier bullets are tappered or boattailed , but the 160 gr stuff being offered on the internet for 9mm is even longer than the 358156.Measuring the 358156 vs a 147 xtp and there isn't as much of a difference in length.There was also a load that I think fiocchi offered at one time that used a 158 swc in the 9mm but from what I can tell it was on par with a 38 spl namely 850 fps or so.

July 10, 2018, 02:00 PM	#5
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	I have done it . Years ago . Sized .357 and shot in a WWII Walther P38 with a long throat, as compared to modern 9mm's with little or no throat. The bullet is rather long and doesn't leave a lot of room for powder. Notes show Red Dot , 700X and Bullseye were used . The 155 grain bullet is on the heavy side , don't try to push velocties . After a little fooling around I got a load that would feed fire and eject. Accuracy was fair To be honest ....a 124 grain truncated cone cast bullet with a gas check has worked best. The Mould came from NOE . The 358156 can be made to work , just be mindful of the reduced powder space . Gary

July 12, 2018, 09:06 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I have READ of annealing gas checks. That might avoid spring-back that leaves them too large.

July 12, 2018, 09:58 PM	#9
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	"Bullet will be too long and is the wrong diameter for 9mm. No using .358" bullets in 9mm.+ That bullet may or may not be too long. I haven't tried it. However you should slug the barrels of several makes of 9MM semi-autos. Ruger P-85/.3570", Taurus PT99/.3571)", and S&W 69.06, .3573" estimated. Five groove barrels are hard to measure without special tools. I size my 9MM bullets to .358". Results are better accuracy from all three guns and leading reduced to almost zero. I learned that trick years ago when a buddy had a genuine 9MM Luger P08. Shooting cast gave dismal results and leading horrendous. He was sizing to the nominal .356". I slugged his barrel and bullets sized .3755" shot decent groups and leading greatly reduced in that gun. Bore was a bit on the rough side so could not totally reduce leading. The only thing that needs to be checked is if the cartridges will chamber. A .358 bullet will make the neck of the case a bit on the fat side so making several dummy rounds and doing a plunk and feeding test with show if it will work in a specific firearm. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

July 13, 2018, 08:01 AM	#10
azjohn Member Join Date: April 25, 2007 Location: Amado, Arizona Posts: 73	I loaded and shot this bullet in my S&W 439. Shot as sized for 357. You always want lead bullets fatter than jacketed. Do the plunk test and try and keep the length as long as you can. I used a light charge of bullseye, somewhere around 3 grains or less if I remember right. TO KNOW IS TO EXPERIENCE __________________ Not cool sunglasses for the AZ sun.

July 13, 2018, 10:37 AM	#11
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	I have anealed 22 gas checks. Had a .228 boolit, could not get the checks on. Heated some in a coffee can. Worked great. Boolits were left as cast and lubed with liquid alox. I shoot then in my 222/20 over under with 8 grains unique for about 1600 fps. My new RO Champion has a huge lead. I can load 125 XTP (for 357) to 1.210". I even bought a 38 super magazine. Will try some .358 SWC that are coated with the 38 super magazine. David Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk