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March 8, 2018, 09:01 PM | #26 |
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Just wait if they get the " No Fly List" as prohibited persons it will get real fun. Even Ted Kennedy was on it for a while.
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March 8, 2018, 09:49 PM | #27 | |
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Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
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Recently, just had a guy who had a class A misdemeanor for violating a protective order (in which possession of firearms was forbidden), had two class C domestic violence misdemeanors, and had been documented abusing prescription drugs in over 100 police encounters. That's about three different ways this idiot should be a prohibited person but police not only did not prosecute but regularly ignored all of his disclosures about the firearms he owned. Somehow, he is still legal and NICS approved despite over 100 contacts in a few years, several of which are disqualifying as a single incident. |
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March 9, 2018, 12:11 AM | #28 |
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Haha well I don't mind being wrong but at least one of the things I was supposedly wrong about was quoted and re-explained making the same point I was trying to make ..
I said I don't think they try to prosecute the majority of the denials because so many of them are false, it would be a wild goose chase for the local authorities who (from what I read in papers occasionally) get notified and pick up the fraud cases.. I was quoted saying something along the lines of I was making an assumption those people were actually prohibited - that's my point most of them are not prohibited... Sooooo there are a few possibilities for why so few follow ups. #1 authorities know when a denial was correct or incorrect from the start, which would be very lame if that information was so readily available but a denial occurred and stood anyway #2 authorities do not know but do not bother to investigate most except the most severe and clear instances due to simple lack of resources #3 authorities do not know from the start but do not look into most cases because so often what's uncovered is the denial was incorrect and no crime occurred.. What I wonder is what happens in some of these states where reporting denials to the police is mandatory for the FFL - isn't PA like that? Thought I read anyone denied there automatically gets arrested practically before they leave the store. You would think such a quick follow up would not leave any time for confirmation and could produce a lot of bogus arrests. |
March 9, 2018, 07:22 AM | #29 | |||
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I suggest that requiring the purchaser to answer the questions on the form serves two purposes. If the purchaser is a recently prohibited person and the records accessed by the NICS aren't up-to-date, truthful answers on the form could prevent a prohibited person from buying a gun (assuming the FFL and/or the NICS reviews the answers on the form). Secondly, in a similar situation, untruthful answers on the form could serve to protect the FFL from being considered at fault from delivering a firearm to a prohibited person (assuming the FFL reviewed the answers on the form). Quote:
Of course gun dealers are not law enforcement officers. Just because a dealer is required to have the purchaser fill out a 4473 doesn't make him/her an LEO. Quote:
And I'm sure your middle school education was very good. |
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March 9, 2018, 07:57 AM | #30 |
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Riffraff, part of the disparity in reporting could be the state/federal split. The reports I’ve seen only track ATF investigations.
If for example Pennsylvania arrests people and charges them under state law, the federal report on ATF investigations would show that as a denial that ATF never even investigated. If no federal prosecutor gets involved then that investigation probably doesn’t get reported up in any way that is tracked. |
March 9, 2018, 08:44 AM | #31 | ||
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I've done very little criminal work, but my observation of most the people I have seen who have committed serious crimes is that they are acutely aware of the full measure of penalties they face at any given moment. They may not be smart, but they devote a large portion of their computational power to their sentencing.
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March 9, 2018, 09:13 AM | #32 | |
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March 9, 2018, 10:26 AM | #33 | |||||
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ATF makes arrests and pursues charges MUCH more often than "100 a year"......if the USAO will not accept that case for prosecution it disappears. Prosecution for a violation of Federal firearms law is most often an "add on" to other state law violations. As in the case of Bruce Abramski, when the state is having difficulty proving its case, they hand it off to the Feds to get a dirtbag off the streets. ATF statistics on "prosecutions for lying on a 4473" don't mention anything about state charges for felon in possession or any other of a host of state violations that will put the accused away for far longer than lying on the 4473. I want to see where he found this: "but even those with dangerous & serious criminal records typically escape actual prosecution". I have no doubt that while some do, it's been my experience that they don't. Quote:
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March 9, 2018, 10:37 AM | #34 | |||||||||
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Again, just like several other questions on the 4473, people don't actually read the question as its written, but how they want it to be written. Quote:
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Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
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March 9, 2018, 10:40 AM | #35 | ||
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And if you take the time to read the 4473 you'll note that 10a & 10b have limited choices and no option to "fill in the blank".
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Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
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March 9, 2018, 10:47 AM | #36 | ||
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As mentioned earlier, it seems safe to assume that the false denial rate is significant based on that report but even if we assume a 25% error rate, that’s a lot of legitimate denials not being investigated and I’m sure not seeing the local police pursuing that crime. Quote:
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March 9, 2018, 01:55 PM | #37 |
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