my Arisaka ... help me

[F. Guffey]

Just fire a 6.5mm Jap round in your rifle , tied to a tire with a string if that would make you feel safe , and compare the fired case to an unfired round . If they are close to being the same you are good to go . If the fired case has the shoulder moved way forward , your rifle has been rechambered , but other than fire forming the case you will not have hurt anything .

I have a chamber reamer that cuts the Japanese 6.5mm 50 to 6.5mm 257 Roberts, there is no down side to that one.

Vents, When I test fire a Japanese rifle I cover the receiver with a white town. THE REASON? Low Pressure, when the barrel is shot out the rifle will not produce enough pressure to seal the chamber around the case. When that happens soot escapes out the vent holes. When I check the towel I expect to see soot that escaped from the smoke holes.

If the fired case has the shoulder moved way forward

The shoulder of the case did not move, I understand; it is a mind boggling thing. If the shoulder moved forward when fired the rear of the case would have been blown off as in case head separation.

F. Guffey


F. Guffey

[ernie8]

How does the towel trick work if you use .263 dia 139 grain bullet , small size case ammo in an early Type-38 with a .270 groove barrel . Even if the barrel is not shot out , you will get blow by . But you probably did not know the Type-38 is found with two different barrel sizes . I do not know what kind of cases you are using , but when I fire lets say a .308 win in a 30/06 chamber , the shoulder of the fired case is then mush farther up the case body then it was and the neck is much shorter . And the case head is still there . I once moved the shoulder back about 3/8 inch on some 303 cases so I could put two short bullets in the neck . They fired , reformed , I pushed the shoulder back again and fired them several more times . The shoulders had no problem moving back and forth and the head stayed on .

[ernie8]

The down side to rechambering the rifle in the photo is you will cut the value in half , and make it so you have to handload for it , not just buy ammo .

[F. Guffey]

How does the towel trick work if you use .263 dia 139 grain bullet , small size case ammo in an early Type-38 with a .270 groove barrel .

At one time the ammo cost more than the rifle. What to do? I chambered the rifle to 6.5mm/257 Roberts. I understand that is a lot to keep up with but we have reloaders that have to have everything new that comes out in the form of new chambers. In my opinion nothing perked-up the 6.5mm50 like chambering it to 6.5mm Roberts. And then there are dies, I have Herter die sets, C&H die sets from El Monte, California and RCBS dies.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

I fire lets say a .308 win in a 30/06 chamber , the shoulder of the fired case is then mush farther up the case body then it was and the neck is much shorter . And the case head is still there . I once moved the shoulder back about 3/8 inch on some 303 cases so I could put two short bullets in the neck . They fired , reformed , I pushed the shoulder back again and fired them several more times . The shoulders had no problem moving back and forth and the head stayed on .

"the fired case is then 'mush?' farther up the case body and the neck is much shorter"

I have said there are a lot reloaders do not know and or understand what happens when it comes to the sequences of events between pulling the trigger and the bullet getting out of the barrel.

Every thing you have posted reinforces my belief. When the 308 W is fired in the 30/06 chamber the case does not move, the shoulder does not move and the neck of the case becomes part of case body with a hint of a shoulder.

And then there is the 303: The 303 head spaces on the rim of the case. What does that mean when you shorten the case .375"? It means you are firing cases with very short necks. And then there is the shoulder of the case, when the case has a rim the shoulder does not move, the case expands and forms to the chamber. What does that mean? It means the shoulder you finished with is not the came shoulder you started with.

What does all of this mean? It means someone is going to say it is all semantics and you will not have learned anything.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

plus: When the 308 W is fired in a 30/06 chamber the 308W head spaces on the shoulder/case body juncture of the 308 W case. The diameter of the case body/shoulder juncture is .014" larger in diameter than the 30/06 chamber at that point, meaning? The shooter has to size the 308 W case with the bolt when chambering,

I suggest the reloader measure before and again after, ME? I measured the diameter of the 308 W case first and then checked the diameter of the 30/06 chamber.

I could say something like "You will not believe how many smiths and reloaders tried to go from a 308W chamber to a 30/06 chamber". Anyhow, I know 6 of them, I was set up at the local gun show when a man walked up with a problem with his Mauser. He said ever time he fired it the cases were ejected with a ridge around the fired case. I told him his rifle was a 308W/7.62 NATO and then someone chambered it to a 30/06, problem! The 30/06 chamber reamer will not clean up a 308 W chamber. I offered to clean up his chamber with a 30/06 Ackley improved reamer. A 308W barrel would cost more than his rifle was worth, I offered him one of 38 8MM57 Mauser barrels I have I also offered to chamber it to 8MM06.

F. Guffey

[ernie8]

You do not appear to understand anything I have said . The .303 cases I made had extra long necks . The mush was a mis-type of much . I never said anything about rechambering a .308 to 30/06 . When the 308 is fire-formed in the 30/06 chamber , if the shoulder does not move way up the case where the neck was , what is that shoulder looking thing on the case . So you told some guy with only 18 Mausers not to shoot some of them for no reason . I have over 1000 and all of mine fire fine . As a custom gun maker who makes bench rest rifles and custom rifles in wildcats , I have never used any gauges for chambering . I can do it with measurements , and always hit within .0005 of where I want to be . It seems like you waste a lot of extra time doing things that mean nothing . But you are very funny , My friends and I are really having fun with you comments .

[F. Guffey]

When the 308 is fire-formed in the 30/06 chamber , if the shoulder does not move way up the case where the neck was , what is that shoulder looking thing on the case

ernie8, I will type slower: The 308W is too large in diameter to chamber in a 30/06 chamber meaning the 308 W case has to be sized when chambered by the bolt. The case can not move forward, we have had members claim they were shooting at competitions when they chambered 308 W in a 30/06 chamber. Most of them claimed the 30/06 chamber handled the 308 W ammo like 'driving a doll buggy'. They also claimed accuracy was not that bad and they did not know how many they shot before they realized the problem.

You should know and you should understand what would have happened if the case head left the bolt face when fired. And you should understand the difference in length between the 308W case and the 30/06. to understand the difference in length is to understand what happened to the 308 W shoulder.

I understand this stuff is beyond your comprehension, the 308 W shoulder did not move, it became part of the case body, I understand it is a mind bobbling thing but there was not enough of the case neck left to form a shoulder.

I said the cases were ejected with the hint of a shoulder.

F. Guffey

[Bohb]

greetings all. i know its hard to believe, but i HAVE been trying all this time to find ammo for my gun. heck, at this point i would have been happy to have found even a single round for sale.

after numerous gun dealers, websites, and gun shows im happy to announce that by the end of this week, i have one box of 20 rounds ( that i paid WAY to much for ) . the only question i have for anyone reading this with some knowledge of Arisakas is: i could only locate some ammo with a 120 grain count (6.5x50 SP 2500fps) . how should i expect this round to perform?

my first shot i will be using the "string and tire" method, while hiding behind a tree. im VERY excited to finally, finally be able to shoot this gun. i will let everyone know how it goes. tbanks again for all your help!

[44 AMP]

i could only locate some ammo with a 120 grain count (6.5x50 SP 2500fps) . how should i expect this round to perform?

I would expect it to fire and deliver the approximate velocity advertised. Everything beyond that is going to be determined by the relationship between your specific rifle (especially barrel) and the ammo used.

The Japanese military load was a 139gr bullet at approx. 2500fps.

There have never been any commercial sporting rifles chambered for this round. Cartridge dimensions mean brass is not easily or readily made from any of the more common rounds.

Norma used to make some in small quantities, but with the current situation (covid, etc) I have no idea if any is available. (and, it was never cheap, even before the ammo price panic...)

I will suggest you wrap (loosely) the action with paper, when you fire that first round via a string from a safe distance. IF any gas comes out, the paper will show you about where it came from.

Bore size on the guns is known to vary and some "standard' 6.5mm slugs may be undersize for the bore you have. IF so, you could get gas " blow by" the bullet and some of that gas can escape the action in the direction of the shooter. Even after testing, ALWAYS wear good shooting glasses when firing one. ALWAYS!!

Good Luck!
Be SAFE!!