The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 14, 2019, 11:55 AM   #1
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,739
Dial Indicator uses while reloading

What uses have you found for a dial indicator in reloading? I have found I can use it to find bullet and neck runout while reloading.

I also just found I can measure neck thickness using it in my K&M neck turning tool.

I’m looking for a setup to measure looseness in case gage (base to datum) and primer seating depth.
Nathan is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 01:11 PM   #2
LineStretcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 589
A machinist square and a feeler gauge will help you with the primer seating depth.
A dial caliper will let you measure the OD of the case and the ID of the gauge. Don't get the digital ones, they are too easy to make errors with.
LineStretcher is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 01:22 PM   #3
higgite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 778
Quote:
A dial caliper will let you measure the OD of the case and the ID of the gauge. Don't get the digital ones, they are too easy to make errors with.
How so?
higgite is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 02:18 PM   #4
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,939
There shouldn't be any use or need for a dial indicator. A dial indicator won't measure the thickness of anything. They're used to check flatness and roundness of machined parts mostly.
There's no need to measure looseness in case gauges or primer depth either. Knowing either really won't tell you anything.
Primers are seated until the ram won't go in anymore. There is no adjusting primer depth.
Case gauges are usually 'Go' or 'No-Go' for checking a tolerance. They don't tell you much that's useful either.
"...Don't get the digital ones..." A digital Vernier is far easier to read. They are not easier to make errors using either. A square only tells you if something is square.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 03:08 PM   #5
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,083
If one wanted to make a concintricity gauge instead of buy one, a dial indicator would come in handy. That is the only use I can think of in the realm of reloading where they could come in handy. They also come in handy when rebuilding differentials, should you ever have the need to do so.

I will second that a digital caliper is no less accurate than a dial caliper of similar quality. The accuracy of a caliper is made in how the slide interacts with the wheel that actually measures the results of slide movement, and the internals of how that wheel measures. The dial versus digital is just how this information is displayed.
__________________
Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946
5whiskey is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 07:09 PM   #6
Gary Wells
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2009
Posts: 180
1000 y/d B/R shooting, huh?
Gary Wells is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 08:24 PM   #7
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 3,041
You can make precision adjustments to any die with one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssw-AbNH7N4
jmorris is offline  
Old January 14, 2019, 08:41 PM   #8
LineStretcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2018
Posts: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by higgite View Post
How so?
The digital gauges are too sensitive and you can easily be off by .001 or more with just a little pressure. A dial caliper positively stops. Ask any machinist worth his salt and he'll tell you the same thing. I have a Starret digital and dial and trust the dial a lot more.
LineStretcher is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 12:16 AM   #9
higgite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by LineStretcher
The digital gauges are too sensitive and you can easily be off by .001 or more with just a little pressure. A dial caliper positively stops. Ask any machinist worth his salt and he'll tell you the same thing. I have a Starret digital and dial and trust the dial a lot more.
I respectfully disagree that digital calipers are too sensitive... when used correctly. It doesn't take pressure on an item to measure it accurately. I've compared my digital with my dial calipers and they are consistently within .0005" of each other. I really don't see a need to be more accurate than that for reloading. ymmv
higgite is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 03:36 AM   #10
cptjack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2014
Posts: 211
the Rcbs dial indicator has a post that goes in neck ,turn against the dial and you read if case neck is of different thickness
cptjack is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 09:44 AM   #11
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
The digital gauges are too sensitive and you can easily be off by .001 or more with just a little pressure. A dial caliper positively stops. Ask any machinist worth his salt and he'll tell you the same thing.
Ask any machinist what tool to use for precision measuments and it he’s “worth his salt” he won’t recommend a caliper. A micrometer is the proper tool at that point.

You can use any caliper against standards and learn how to use them properly but they are no substitute for better measuring tools.
jmorris is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 11:17 AM   #12
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
Quote:
I’m looking for a setup to measure looseness in case gage (base to datum) and primer seating depth.
Reloaders do not want to exceed their ability to do' and or understand.

Not me: In the big inning Wilson suggested using a straight edge and then? they described the straight edge as a pocket rule. I suggested the straight edge' could be a flat surface. I also suggested using a feeler gage with the straight edge to determine case head protrusion on the case gage and! I made tools that incorporated the use of a dial indicator when determining case head protrusion with a flat surface.

Years ago I made a tool that measured the length of a case from the shoulder of the case to the head of the case as fast as picking up the tool and setting it down. I could say "as fast as a reloader can etc.." but there is a problem with getting reloaders to back away from the keyboard.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 11:35 AM   #13
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
and then I made a tool for sorting cases by length from the end of the neck to the case head. With training a reloader could sort cases by length as fast as they could pick up a case and set it down.

And then there are dial indicators that measure .0001", I purchased a Pratt and Whitney gage that did some serious measuring, .000005" was as low as it would go and the highest it would go did nothing for me so I removed the electronics and then added a dial indicator. I have 80+ dial indicators, some go below .0001" I do not need an indicator that is that accurate but I have them JIC (just in case).

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 12:09 PM   #14
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 7,582
Concentricity of bullets

Quote:
There shouldn't be any use or need for a dial indicator.
Understand that I am not a reloader but would say that some folks will disagree with this statement. …..

Quote:
If one wanted to make a concentricity gauge instead of buy one, a dial indicator would come in handy
This is just one example of their use. A friend of mine is into competition shooting and he uses a stand with dial indicator, to measure the concentricity of rifle bullets. They actually make such a tool/stand. ….

Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 02:04 PM   #15
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
Quote:
Understand that I am not a reloader but would say that some folks will disagree with this statement. …..
Back when reloaders were getting all giggly about Larry and his digital head space gage none of them knew his digital head space gage was a dial indicator stand according to all precision instrument manufacturers.

No reloaders understood ever time someone mentioned head space gage he got top billing from google. And then there was that thing about the three legged milk stool; the few that understood got a giggle about that one; I believe the few was a total of two.

If a reloader falls for that one about the case having head space they will fall for anything.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 02:28 PM   #16
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 3,041
You can buy indicators that are more than accurate enough for any reloading. Components just are not consistent enough to need .00002” resolution. For lots of reloading tasks .001 is good enough sometimes we may want to get to the tenth but that’s still pretty far away.

jmorris is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 05:33 PM   #17
higgite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2010
Posts: 778
jmorris, thanks! That's just the thing I've been looking for to verify that my range fodder pistol rounds with mixed brass and plated bullets are consistently concentric to .00002" TIR! No more flyers for me!
higgite is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 05:56 PM   #18
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
https://picclick.ca/Out-of-Stock-90-...482982091.html

I doubt anyone is going to order 4 of those. If I replaced my comparator indicators the cost for each one would be $700.00 and then I have 3 cheaper ones that are made in Germany that would be close to $350.00 each.

Back to what could be done with a dial indicator. I understand reloaders are afraid to loosen the lock nut, some claim they use shims. Reloaders do not believe the die can be measured with a height gage and or a dial caliper. A reloader could measure the height of the die above the press with a dial indicator when adapted to an adapter.

For me it has always been very simple, simple as in the die is solid meaning if the die is raised the top of the die goes up 'at the top' above the press and it goes up above the ram the same amount. And, it is a mind boggling thing; both measurements are measured in thousandths. The boggling thing? Reloaders have from the big inning insist on measuring the turn of the die in degrees and converting degrees into thousandths.

So if I choose to lower the die I can lower the die in thousandths with a depth micrometer, height gage or a dial caliper.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 06:48 PM   #19
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Back to what could be done with a dial indicator. I understand reloaders are afraid to loosen the lock nut, some claim they use shims. Reloaders do not believe the die can be measured with a height gage and or a dial caliper. A reloader could measure the height of the die above the press with a dial indicator when adapted to an adapter.

For me it has always been very simple, simple as in the die is solid meaning if the die is raised the top of the die goes up 'at the top' above the press and it goes up above the ram the same amount. And, it is a mind boggling thing; both measurements are measured in thousandths. The boggling thing? Reloaders have from the big inning insist on measuring the turn of the die in degrees and converting degrees into thousandths.

So if I choose to lower the die I can lower the die in thousandths with a depth micrometer, height gage or a dial caliper.
That is exactly what I posted in #7.
jmorris is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 07:06 PM   #20
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
Quote:
That is exactly what I posted in #7.
I understand how desperate some reloaders are for attention but this is not the first, second, third, fourth and even the fifth time it has been suggested. I do not remember you getting involved when it was suggested reloaders use pasties marked off in degrees with and or without an index.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 07:26 PM   #21
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
These magnetic bases will not work on a wood, plastic or non ferrous surfaces.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 07:30 PM   #22
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
and then there are micro adjusters on powder measures. All of my powder measures are micro adjust because I can measure adjuster protrusion with a depth micrometer, dial caliper etc. and with a dial indicator with an adapter kit.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 07:34 PM   #23
hounddawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Posts: 2,396
tip of my index finger makes a great primer depth micrometer for double checking, I use a bench mounted primer and tend to seat hard but I always check
__________________
“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek
hounddawg is offline  
Old January 15, 2019, 07:57 PM   #24
jmorris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
These magnetic bases will not work on a wood, plastic or non ferrous surfaces.
I don’t think any magnetic bases will work on wood, plastic or non ferrous surfaces, unless they are both flat and the base is heavy.
jmorris is offline  
Old January 24, 2019, 01:37 PM   #25
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,940
Quote:
I don’t think any magnetic bases will work on wood, plastic or non ferrous surfaces, unless they are both flat and the base is heavy.
I can remember when reloaders got all giggly about the digital head space gage. To me the digital head space gage was a dial indicator stand. I remember posting links for dial indicator stands for half the price and I think it is necessary to distinguish the difference between a dial indicator stand and a stand with a magnetic base. 10 stands with magnetic bases for $200.00

Most of my stands weigh 100 pounds plus, most of my stands are the base. And then there is the layout/ set up table, it is steel and is marked out with a grid.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08849 seconds with 8 queries