The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 29, 2018, 02:28 PM   #1
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
Lee carbide factory crimp die 45acp

I'm not having a problem only want to improve . Giving you start to finish , size and deprime using RCBS Carbide sizing die ,wet tumble , Lyman M expanding die , prime , charge , seat using Hornady sleeved seating die and taper crimp using the RCBS Carbide Crimp die . Was reading about the Lee factory crimp die , what's your feelings on the Lee to replace the RCBS ?
cw308 is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 02:34 PM   #2
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,607
Not for 45 ACP.....at least for me, I wouldn't. You can easily remove the taper/flare with standard dies and won't have to spend money on something that is not needed.
Dufus is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 03:14 PM   #3
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,181
If you can make loads that cycle reliably with out using it then why add it.

I load 380 auto, 9mm and was loading 45acp while just using the standard Lee Carbide 3- die sets until I purchased a 45acp pistol with a very tight chamber. No matter what I did I could not get them to cycle reliably. Would get failure to go into battery and once had a jam that was very difficult to extract after a FTF.

Finally after many tries doing different things and directions from folks here and other forums I was finally convinced by a mod on the CZ forum to try the Lee FCD which finally solved the problem completely. So now all my 45's go thru the FCD.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 03:24 PM   #4
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Taxifornia
Posts: 4,825
Quote:
Was reading about the Lee factory crimp die , what's your feelings on the Lee to replace the RCBS ?
We all have our load technique. I use the Lee FCD for 45 ACP; but in addition to, rather than a replacement to my RCBS seat die.

For me, it's a three-step process (on a Dillon 550BL). I seat with an RCBS seat die; followed by another RCBS seat die to perform a sufficient crimp; followed by the Lee FCD to "re-crimp," as it were.

The FCD has a collar at its base that can "iron out" any case distortions that may occur - usually at the case mouth and/or bullet base. With most ammo going through the FDC there is no impingement with the collar, but some do (usually Federal brass, I've noticed) - maybe one in four. It tightens up the tolerances; and I would think that's a good thing.

Is it necessary? I don't know. But I like the idea of the finished ammo going through the collar as a final step to correct any O.D. anomalies.

I use the FCD for every caliber I load. They work even better with revolvers; applying the best roll crimp I've ever seen.

Quote:
If you can make loads that cycle reliably with out using it then why add it.
And then there's that ^ too. If what you're doing works, why mess with it? I like the Lee FCD; but others don't.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself.
Life Member, National Rifle Association
Nick_C_S is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 03:48 PM   #5
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 2,212
For me, if i already had the RCBS crimp die, i would not replace it.

I use a Lee 4 hole turret press with the Lee 4 die set. Would i replace the Lee FCD with something else, no.
Not as long as it's working for me.

Also note the crimp die isn't carbide, the sizing die is.
__________________
I am in earnest- I will not equivocate- I will not excuse-
I will not retreat a single inch- AND I WILL BE HEARD!
William Lloyd Garrison - The Liberator 1831
std7mag is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 03:50 PM   #6
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
The only die I would replace is the crimp die I crimp in a separate step so I would use the Lee factory crimp die to replace the RCBS crimp die . I have about 100 cases of MAXXTECH brass from a friend that doesn't reload , the brass is thicker then most , it doesn't seat fully in my Lyman case gage but does pass the plunk test and feeds fine in my 1911 wanted to give the Lee a try to see if it irons out the case to fit the gage .

PS
For 45acp the factory taper crimp die is carbide.

Last edited by cw308; December 29, 2018 at 06:04 PM.
cw308 is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 08:03 PM   #7
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,208
Why put training wheels on a bike that's not tipping over?
The carbide ring in the FCD die can only harm a good round by squeezing the bullet when there's no need to. The FCD will make a sloppy round chamber, but it will not heal whatever is ailing the round. If the bullet is tilted, the FCD does not straighten the bullet, it crushes the base. If you're using oversize lead bullets, it crushes the section of the bullet that is in the case. That doesn't help anything.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 08:19 PM   #8
snakeye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2013
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Why put training wheels on a bike that's not tipping over?
The carbide ring in the FCD die can only harm a good round by squeezing the bullet when there's no need to. The FCD will make a sloppy round chamber, but it will not heal whatever is ailing the round. If the bullet is tilted, the FCD does not straighten the bullet, it crushes the base. If you're using oversize lead bullets, it crushes the section of the bullet that is in the case. That doesn't help anything.
^^^^^
Some people live in a fantasy world
snakeye is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 09:06 PM   #9
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,083
I use the LFC die for every caliber I load. First started using one on .45acp. My M1911 has a very tight match chamber, barrel made by Kart. Without using the LFC die, I get an occasional failure to chamber. The LFC die "irons out" any bulges in the brass making feeding much better. Also, I use the LFC die out of necessity for a target pistol in .32 S&W wadcutter. Similar reason as the .45acp. If your pistol has a loose or generous chamber, you may not need the LFC die.

Last edited by Mike38; December 29, 2018 at 09:12 PM.
Mike38 is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 10:16 PM   #10
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
I have always received very good advice from everyone in this , I use to occasionally have a bulged case from not setting the bullet square on the flared case and thankfully from help from people on this forum told me about the Lyman M expander die , worked perfect also with the use of the Hornady Sleeved Seating Die my rounds are trouble free . This Lee Factory Crimp Die is something I see worth while to test , I'm using different brands of brass with the same bullet , a 230 gr FMJ from PrecisionDelta .. I'm ordering the die Monday and will let you know what I think . Thanks Again for your input . Nothing wrong with trying something .

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 10:40 PM   #11
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,607
Quote:
Nothing wrong with trying something .
You are 100% correct.

Just keep in mind that using mixed brass, the thickness at the mouth of the cases can and do vary somewhat. That will effect your results. I will add that I had problems a few years ago in this regard.

The most I had to worry about was some differences in Federal brass as they were so much thinner that the bullet had almost no hold.
Dufus is offline  
Old December 29, 2018, 11:10 PM   #12
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,181
I'm sure I could make one of these "Sloppy Round" chamber by sending this barrel out and having the chamber worked on but why? There is nothing wrong with the barrel. It fires new, never fired ammunition very well. It will chamber sized empty cases all day long. I've gone as far as loading plated bullets and then crimping them until there is a roll crimp produced and they still will not reliably chamber.

Now I know this die is doing something but exactly what it is I do not know as when I measure them I find no changes only that now they chamber every time in this pistol. These exact same loads when done with the seating/crimp die all chamber and function in every other gun I've tried them in.

So I will continue to use the FCD for the 45acp and not think twice. What I won't do is send out a gun for work that doesn't need it when I can fix the problem with a $25.00 die.

Not trying to convince anyone that they Need this tool only that it is there and has a place. No one is saying that if you don't like it or trust it that you need to use it.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old December 30, 2018, 08:13 AM   #13
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 2,212
CW308,
After you mentioned that the crimp die was carbide also, had me wondering.
Checked out Lee's website. You are quite correct.
Yet another thing in a long list that i thought i knew, but didn't.
Thanks!
__________________
I am in earnest- I will not equivocate- I will not excuse-
I will not retreat a single inch- AND I WILL BE HEARD!
William Lloyd Garrison - The Liberator 1831
std7mag is offline  
Old December 30, 2018, 09:54 AM   #14
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
7mag
No , you were right also , not all the FCD are carbide , I think only the pistil are carbide . I'll give it a try .Thanks for answering always good to talk gun stuff .Be Well.

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old December 30, 2018, 09:59 AM   #15
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
Dufus
If I come across a new tool that has something new to offer I'll give it a try , the MAXXTECH Brass is the thickest brass I ever came across , that's how I became interested in the FCD . Thanks Again .

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old December 30, 2018, 10:03 AM   #16
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
Kmw
If your chamber is tight this die as you saw will be the fix . Nothing wrong with trying it worked well for you . Be Well.

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old December 30, 2018, 03:09 PM   #17
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,181
Thanks Chris, Yes I did fight the recommendation to use the die but after a month of working on it I was at wits end and had to do something. This gun shoots superbly and there is nothing wrong with the gun and nothing wrong with my handloads. Combine the 2 together and then there is a problem. The Lee die fixed that. Exactly how it fixed it I cannot explain because I cannot find any altered measurements. I don't have a fixture and a dial indicator to measure runout.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old December 31, 2018, 07:53 PM   #18
zeke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 1999
Location: NW Wi
Posts: 797
Am using the LFC in 9mm, SW .40 and 45 acp. It can straighten out off kilter loads, sizes down further on the case base than the other unmodifed sizing dies owned and is less sensitive to case length. It will resize larger diameter lead bullets, like in the 45 LC and 44 special.

And they're inexpensive to try.

Never even knew RCBS had a factory carbide crimp die, but not paying attention as much as i used to.
zeke is offline  
Old January 1, 2019, 01:06 AM   #19
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 4,486
I use the Lee FCD with all my hand gun loads 9mm, 38/357 & 45acp . I loaded rifle for several years before I started loading handgun cartridges . The first one I tried was 45acp . I was told that mixed headstamps in 45 is no big deal so that's what I started with .

Since I had been loading rifle cartridges before that to a very high tolerance . I tried loading the 45acp the same way . One of the first things I noticed was how the thinker walled brass hung up in that collar of my FCD way more then the thin walled cases . Mixed brass also resulted in very inconsistent crimp tension . If I had the die set to to give a light to medium crimp on the thick walled cases , I could barely feel it crimp the thin walled cases . Of course the opposite as well if set to crimp the thin walled cases correct it really bit down on the thicker walled cases .

This was freaking me out . I was so used to loading perfect match grade rifle loads . The inconsistencies I was getting with the mixed 45 brass ad me pulling my hair out . I had to finally at least separate the brass by thick and thin walled cases and that just for the cases I don't have enough to separate by head stamp ( 500+ )

My point to that is 1) I think my 45acp FCD carbide ring is a tad small because my 9mm almost never even touch that ring and I've never had a 357 touch the ring . 2) If you're going to load some extra thick brass the Lee FCD should swage them down no problem . Keep in mind that it's possible to swage them down to much to where you compress the lead of the bullet which will stay that new diameter . While the case actually springs back a little resulting in less bullet hold then you had before running it through the crimp die .

What brand case are you talking about that are thinker ? I've found Win , Fed , CBC , Nosler to be on the thicker side and PMC , agillia , PPU to be on the thinner side . There's more on both ends but those seem to be the most noticeable to me when I'm loading them .
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive !

I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .
Metal god is offline  
Old January 1, 2019, 10:22 AM   #20
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
Metal god
First , Happy & Healthy New Year to you and your family . We went down that same road , I to mainly reloaded for Precision rifle shooting so when I started with 45 ACP I was trimming brass to the same length already new about thicker because in 308 the brass I was using was Rem. Win. FC , HSM none of the higher end brass . The reason the Lee FCD interested me was do to the differences in the brass . I came across a brass ( MAXXTECH ) is the thickest brass , will not fully seat in the case gage but passes the plunk test . Didn't get the die yet it's ordered , when I get the die I'll try it on the thick brass first . Will separate headstamps when crimping . Thanks for answering my post . Good health for the new year .
PS Do you really shoot that good.

Chris
cw308 is offline  
Old January 1, 2019, 02:52 PM   #21
Metal god
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 4,486
Quote:
PS Do you really shoot that good.
haha , short answer NO . Although I've done some shooting in the past that even surprised me at what I was capable of when I really try .

I do personally know Troop362 and when he wrote that I almost fell out of my chair laughing . I had to put that in my signature , but I've never lit a match by shooting it , the rest is true-ish
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive !

I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .
Metal god is offline  
Old January 8, 2019, 08:45 PM   #22
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
Received the die , tried it on loaded rounds , very little resistance , will have to test on reloads from the start . I did notice what could cause a crush on a case as some posted . I clean new dies before using and noticed no mention of , make sure you install the sleeve taper down . Common sense but in a rush bad things happen . You can't see the taper on the sleeve , by inserting a round you can tee for sure , upside down it rests on the case mouth . My be one reason some hate the die . I still don't know if I'll like the die untill I start on new reloads . By Friday most likely .
cw308 is offline  
Old January 8, 2019, 10:13 PM   #23
kmw1954
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2016
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 1,181
Well I'll be watching for an update.
kmw1954 is offline  
Old January 9, 2019, 05:30 AM   #24
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by stad7mag
I use a Lee 4 hole turret press with the Lee 4 die set. Would i replace the Lee FCD with something else, no.
Not as long as it's working for me.

Also note the crimp die isn't carbide, the sizing die is.
I also load on a Lee 4-hole turret press. I only load for handguns, and, except for a couple of odd-ball cowboy loads, everything I load is done using Lee 4-die sets that include the factory crimp die. The advantage to the FCD is that it splits off the crimping operation from the seating operation. That means with my seating die I only have to worry about controlling the seating depth. The FCD in station four takes care of the crimp.

FWIW, the FCD is a carbide die. The crimp portion may not be, but the resizing ring in the base of the die is definitely carbide.
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-d...ory-crimp-die/
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 9, 2019, 08:19 AM   #25
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 3,159
The auto and revolver dies are rifle isn't .
cw308 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08861 seconds with 8 queries