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Old March 28, 2018, 03:24 AM   #1
Saguaro 66
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And now something completely different.... 300 H&H with V-N160

Vitha N-170 is too slow for 300 H&H and the load data from this cartridge can't be extrapolated with 300 Win Mag or any other cartridge

I'm going to try to find load data for the 300 H&H with Vihta N-160
Perhaps more shooters can benefit from it or become interested in this legendary cartridge.

I wrote to Sierra and I got this answer:

Bullet: Sierra pro hunter 220 RN + N-160

Starting load: 54.5 grs.
up thru a top of: 58.5 grs



I wrote to Woodleigh Bullets and I got this answer:

Bullet: Woodleigh 220 gr sn + N-160

Starting load 58 gr 2365 fps
Max: 63 gr 2570 fps

I can't help being surprise that the Maximum charge of one bullet is about the Minimum of the other considering they are both very similar bullets in terms of shape and same weight.

Any suggestions ?
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Old March 28, 2018, 05:12 AM   #2
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Are you planning on using Sierra bullets, or Woodleigh?

While simular in appearance and weight, jacket material may be different composition.
There are too many variables to be set in stone for a given bullet weight.

Start low and work up.
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Old March 28, 2018, 05:49 AM   #3
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Sierra is notorious for their "conservative" load data. One time I called them concerning what they had listed as a "Max Load". Their answer: That's just where we decided to stop. Hardly scientific.

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Old March 28, 2018, 09:43 AM   #4
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I don't know about Woodleigh, but Sierra develops loads in production rifles rather than test barrels. I believe that whatever load they decide was enough in their gun gets pressure tested to ensure it does not exceed SAAMI maximum, but if it is on the low side they just leave it that way. Hornady does the same thing.

The information provided by the powder makers is generally better as far as pressure goes. Vihtavuori says 4.04 grams or 62.4 grains of N160 is maximum with the 200 grains Sierra HPBT bullet at COL of 91.4 mm or 3.598". In QuickLOAD I can substitute the Sierra 220 grain RN and at the same overall length of 3.600 inches and the same pressure is reached with 61.2 grains of N160. The difference is smaller than you might expect because the RN bullet is shorter per grain of weight than the SPBT, so it has slightly more case volume under it than the HPBT when seated to the same COL. The Woodleigh RN is 0.018" shorter, so it took between 3.97 and 3.98 grams or 61.3 to 61.4 grains to achieve the same pressure with it.

With that extrapolated VV data, I would suggest the difference between it and Woodleigh's recommendation might be accounted for by their using different brands of cartridge brass, which can have different capacities. The 300 H&H is the parent cartridge for the 300 Win Mag, and the 300 Win Mag has a wide range of difference in case water overflow capacities by brand, ranging from about 88 grains for Tula and Remington to as much as 95.5 grains for Norma. The 300 H&H brass from those companies may also vary in capacity. If you are not intending to produce hot maximum loads, I would just start with Sierra's load and increase it 2% until you get near 61.2 grains and then not push it more.
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Old March 29, 2018, 03:18 AM   #5
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With all the new bullets from Sierra there retesting and using test barrels.

https://sierrabullets.files.wordpres...on-magnum2.pdf

Maybe they have new manual soon
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Old March 29, 2018, 10:09 AM   #6
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I'm glad to see that change, though I know it takes them a while to collect refiring data. Two years, I think their tech told me, based on production gun testing. It may be longer for universal receiver tests, as the roughly $5K cost of each chambering's test barrel means they'll likely borrow a number of them (Hornady's manual says that's what they do) rather than buy as many as it would take for all the chamberings they list.

They are still using that velocity category style of load listing. Where there are several bullets the same weight, that load will be for the one that caused pressure to be highest. It will also be the case that SAAMI maximum isn't likely to be coincident exactly with a 50 or 100 fps velocity point on their table, so it will still be the next lower such point that didn't make the pressure too high that is listed.
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Old March 29, 2018, 12:15 PM   #7
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"...can't be extrapolated with 300 Win Mag or any other cartridge..." Nor can any other cartridge be "extrapolated".
There's N160 .300 H&H data on Vihtavuori's site. Not for a 220 though. Might be in their manual or you could ask 'em.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/resources/contact-form/
Dunno if this'll help you. https://www.vihtavuori.com/resources...ri-reload-app/
These guys are their U.S. distributor.
Capstone Precision Group
24732 Randall Road
Sedalia, MO 65301 USA
+1 660 460 2800
[email protected]
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Old March 30, 2018, 10:03 AM   #8
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Hornady may use pressure barrels but those loads are then test fire in a factory rifles for velocity then those loads/rifles are used in their manual. Also in their manual they said that some cartridges, pressure barrels were not available so they used factory or custom firearms.
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Old April 1, 2018, 11:52 AM   #9
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std7mag,
I plan to use Sierra Pro Hunter RN 220 g, in fact they are here at my table patiently waiting to get into action
I asked about the Woodleigh and Sierra for two reasons.

1- I was ignorant about "While simular in appearance and weight, jacket material may be different composition" could produce such a difference in load powder charge.

2- I'm curious about Woodleigh RN because they are not very known here but Woodleigh bullets have such a good reputation. Nevertheless I'll stick to the Sierra RN because they are good for what I need, they are easy to get and less pricey.

But of course, one day I'd like to shoot Woodleigh bullets to see if they are much better than the most common RN bullets, just for curiosity, even though in my opinion and rather limited personal experience with different bullets there is not a bad bullet if the placement is right.

Thanks for your insight
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Old April 1, 2018, 11:58 AM   #10
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"""........Sierra is notorious for their "conservative" load data. One time I called them concerning what they had listed as a "Max Load". Their answer: That's just where we decided to stop. Hardly scientific.

Don.......
"""
I'll definitely try to be conservative as well with this 300H&H, at least during the first months...

Thanks !
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Old April 1, 2018, 12:27 PM   #11
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UNCLENICK
"....... I would just start with Sierra's load and increase it 2% until you get near 61.2 grains and then not push it more......"

I beg your pardon.... just to make sure.... when you say "start with Sierra's load"

--You mean start with their Minimum load: 54.5 grs. ?

I have reload hundreds or thousands of .308 Win and smaller cases
however with this 300 H&H I feel in a new territory ... is the 300 H&H a more difficult cartridge to reload ??

Thanks a lot for your help !
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Old April 5, 2018, 01:36 PM   #12
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.



T. O'Heir, thanks a lot for the information.

I'm not trying to make up my own data.

I'm trying to collect data on this unusual and lovely cartridge to make good hunting hand loads and share them with people who may be interested in this nice .30 cal magnum. I say nice because its quite powerful and does not kick much at least in comparison with a .300 Win Mag

I did contact Vihtavuori and asked for data.
They answered 3 weeks later and said they had NO data for 220gr only had the data published in their web

I did contact Sierra and Paul answered within few hours with this:
-----Try a starting load of N-160 with the 220’s in your 300 H&H of 54.5 grs. up thru a top of 58.5 grs.-----

I checked NOSLER page and states the same as SIERRA:
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-da...olland-magnum/

Min....54.5 grs. --79%---2390ft /728m
MED....56,5 --82%...2476ft 754m
MAX....58.5 grs. 85%----2527ft 770m


MY TEST:
To-day I made some tests following Sierra data for the
ProHunter RN 220 COAL 3600 --91.4 mm
It was kind of cold so I did carry the ammo in jacket

56,5 gr N160 740 mps ---- 2427 fps
57,5 gr "" 750 mps -----2460 fps
58,5 gr "" 764 mps ----- 2506 fps --------I took a pic:

Surprisingly the MAX load from the Vihta PDF you send is quite high
MAX 65.1 gr with Hornady 220 RN 2540 fps COAL 3578
DID N160 POWDER CHANGE THAT MUCH SINCE THAT DATA WAS PUBLISHED IN 2002 ?

I wonder If can go a bit higher than 58,5 gr of N-160 ??
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Old April 6, 2018, 01:22 PM   #13
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Saguaro 66, are you able to buy Reloader 25, or are you simply working with N160 just to see how it performs? Rel#25 appears to work rather well in the 300 H&H.
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Old April 6, 2018, 06:07 PM   #14
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Not sir, no American powders here unfortunately, only European... Vihta, Vectan, Switz....

Handloaders hear are endangered species, it's more expensive --that in the U.S-- and very difficult to find the right reloading supplies
And to make it more fun the retarded politicians make it even more difficult while the "bad guys" simply get whatever they need

So far so good with the N160. I reckon N165 would be better since the 300 H&H really shines with bullets near the 200 grain zip code.

Last edited by Saguaro 66; April 8, 2018 at 05:42 AM.
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Old April 8, 2018, 06:23 PM   #15
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Saguaro 66, yes, I've heard that is a problem there. N165 would certainly work also with the heavier bullets. Sure do like the 300 H&H. A fabulous cartridge. If I may, what is your rifle?
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Old April 8, 2018, 06:57 PM   #16
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Saguaro 66,

I would strongly suggest you look into getting some Norma MRP powder. Surely they must carry Norma powder in Spain? MRP powder is basically the same powder as the RL22 powder we have here in the states, just with a different coating. It is an excellent powder for the 300 H&H Magnum.

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Old April 18, 2018, 01:42 AM   #17
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Pour la chasse du chevreuil avec une arme 300 HH:
Lyman #311041 Lino 166 gr et VV N110 25 gr.
Vitesse à 3 m : 2030 fps (619 m/s)
Excellente précision avec ma Winchester M70 XTR Sporter.
Point blank: 120m (131 y)

For hunting deer with a 300 HH rifle:
Lyman # 311041 Lino 166 gr and VV N110 25 gr.
Speed ​​at 10 f: 2030 fps (619 m / s)
Excellent accuracy with my Winchester M70 XTR Sporter.
Point blank: 120m (131y)

Enjoy!
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Old May 3, 2018, 06:07 AM   #18
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Sorry lads... no computer the last days... no problem really, just a little inconvenience of living in the hills....

RifleTom, yes, I'd like to get some N165. Again not available in Spain at the moment. I may have to visit the little charming neighbouring country of ANDORRA where they have less restrictions with reloading materials.
And yes, of course, you may ask anything you want: my rifle is lovely Sako L61R.

USSR, I do appreciate your advice nevertheless powder availability and reloading materials is very critical here in Spain. As the song says... " this is not America..." well, there is not a gain without a loss " ... so we have other things ....

Holothu, can really the N110 be used in the 300 H&H ????????
Like Vectan SP3 ????
Do you cast your bullets for the 300 H&H ???
Are those ingredients available in Andorra ??

Best regards !
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Old May 3, 2018, 08:23 AM   #19
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QuickLOAD results at maximum pressure for all the VV powders suggest that N560 will produce the greatest velocity with either a 180 grain or a 220 grain RN bullet. Not quite 5% faster than N160.
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Old January 16, 2019, 09:11 AM   #20
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No 560 found.

After long time I got N-165 so I'll use this slower powder with heavier bullets such as 220's and keep the N-160 for lighters projectiles
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