Martini-Henry MkII

[highpower3006]

I recently found this 1888 Martini-Henry at a local gun store for what I thought was a good price. The pictures don't really do it justice, but there is quite a lot of bluing left on the barrel, receiver and other small parts like the breach block. The bore is very strong with near perfect rifling.

Does anyone know why they were still making the MkII version after they were already making the the MkIV? Seems kind of strange, but then it is the British we are talking about.







Obviously one of the guns from the Nepal stash:

[T. O'Heir]

Suspect it's been refinished. Too clean and there is some pitting.
Might be a Khyber Pass copy too. They copy 'em exactly right down to all the stamps.
Have a .pdf of a how-to for turning reloadable cartridges out of 3/4" bar stock if you want it. PM me.

[Slamfire]

Looks better than any Kyber pass rifle I have seen. I have an 1876 dated MKII that barely has rifling. I just examined the pictures I have and based on what I see, your rifle is British made. I don't give a whoop about a MKII receiver being on a later rifle as British were not building these things for collectors. Old parts were found, put into inventory, built into weapons, tested, proved, and issued.

The strange writing on your buttstock is Hindi Devanagari Script http://blogs.transparent.com/hindi/hindi-numbers-1-100/. I clearly see the number four. This rifle was issued at one time to the British Indian Army.

If that was near me, had excellent rifling, I would get it. I think very highly of the Martini Henry action, it is one of the great single actions of all time, was used everywhere, used in every bush war the British were involved, and then, it was issued to Colonial Troops and I am aware of the rifle being in issue during WW1. Probably used in East African Campaign, because Britain sent Indian troops there. My rifle came out of Afghanistan. Probably sent rounds down range at Britain's, Indian's, Pakistani's and maybe American's, since 1876.

[springer99]

Receiver markings look pretty legit to me, but a Mk II, short lever, dated 1888 is a new one to me. What is the caliber; I'm wondering if it might be a conversions to 303 late in the day.?

It does look like the metal might have been refinished and it appears that the forend pin has been patched in the past(not uncommon). Definitely looks to be a Nepal stash.

Suggest you check with the folks here. They can probably give you more info. for sure.

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

[Tidewater_Kid]

Very interesting looking rifle. They were making IVs by 1888. I have a long lever IV dated 1887. It looks legit. Nice rifle.

TK

[highpower3006]

Thanks for the replies. Slamfire, I really appreciate the info. I would bet money (actually I did when I bought it) that it is a British made gun, just too nicely made to be Kyber Pass. There are no import marks on it and I have no clue who brought it into the country. But I am 99% sure it was part of the Nepal hoard.

It is still in .577-450 caliber and as I mentioned, the bore is just about perfect. I have no idea what the going price for one of these is, but I paid $400 for it and am happy with it at that price.

As soon as I accumulate some more money I'm going to get some brass and dies and load up a couple dozen rounds. I think it will be a hoot to take it out along with my 1884 Trapdoor Springfield and do a comparison on these two old warhorses.

[T. O'Heir]

"...get some brass..." Very pricey stuff. Made by Bertram, I think, only. Graf's wants $126.99 per 20. $104.99 per 20 for their own brand. Lee dies run $88.99. Uses a Lee Universal shell holder #22. Or an RCBS #57170-SH577-450MARTHNRY. The RCBS may not be easy to finds though. Midway says no back order. Buffalo Arms says back orders are ok.
S'why I mentioned the .pdf.

[Slamfire]

Thanks for the replies. Slamfire, I really appreciate the info. I would bet money (actually I did when I bought it) that it is a British made gun, just too nicely made to be Kyber Pass. There are no import marks on it and I have no clue who brought it into the country. But I am 99% sure it was part of the Nepal hoard.

Many rifles came in prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act. My 1958 Golden State Arms Catalog "World's Guns" has a listing for Martini Henry rifles. The ad states:

British Martini Henry military rifle, 450 Marini, 33" barrel. British infantry weapon with the same action as R6 (Martini Henry Military Carbine). Clean inside and outside. $18.50

Take a look at this thread: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...Calif-Database!

And this: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_santafe.html

Adjusted for inflation, that rifle cost $155.00. I have seen many ex British service rifles that were re proofed prior to sale, as that was required up to the 1970's. Does your rifle show any additional proof marks?

[highpower3006]

Adjusted for inflation, that rifle cost $155.00. I have seen many ex British service rifles that were re proofed prior to sale, as that was required up to the 1970's. Does your rifle show any additional proof marks?

Not that I can see. Just the proofs on the barrel ahead of the receiver. Perhaps you can decipher them better than I can?

Very pricey stuff. Made by Bertram, I think, only. Graf's wants $126.99 per 20. $104.99 per 20 for their own brand.

I can get 24ga Magtech empty brass shotshells for .83 cents a round at Midway and Midway also has the Lee dies for $87.95, they are listed as being available. I will still need the shell holder and bullets etc.. A friend of mine has the resizing die and he said he'll resize and trim them for me. Still, it will cost me about $125 or so to get set up with the dies and 50 cases. This is why I have to wait until next month to start buying the various bits I need to start loading this round.

The good thing is that blackpowder is very easy on brass and if I stick to neck sizing only, the cases will last me for the rest of my life..

[Slamfire]

VR stands for Victoria Rex, while she ruled till 1910 ish, she did not make it to the 1950's. You have the same number of proof marks as my 1876 Martini, you can research proof markings and determine if the barrel was reproved, during VR's lifetime, but I think, it was not.

[Scorch]

VR stands for Victoria Rex

That would be "Victoria Regina" as she was a queen, not a king.

[mapsjanhere]

BTW it still has the broad arrow without the counter stamp, meaning it was never officially transferred into civilian ownership but is still somewhere "on the books" as missing from the British forces.

[kilimanjaro]

The Lee dies are the world's best deal in reloading gear, buy them and never regret it. You stole that rifle at $400, congratulations.

The lower right stamping on the stock is a '96', I think. I've seen numerous photos of Frontier Force and Scout troops carrying these, which were basically Waziri rebels being paid to stay loyal to the British, from as late as the 1936-37 campaign in the Northwest Frontier, and read of Pakistani troops encountering these rifles into the 1950's.

[darkgael]

IIRC...Kynoch manufactures brass. I shall check my headstamps.
An additional idea....one used to be able to buy a chamber adapter from OWS that allowed use of the .45 Colt in the M-H. In order to work properly (be accurate) the .45s had to be handloaded with Lee REAL muzzleloading bullets...the driving bands on those slugs more closely approximate the diameter of the M-H bore.

This is five shots at 50 yards with the chamber adapter, the Lee Bullet and a case full of FFg BP:

[highpower3006]

An additional idea....one used to be able to buy a chamber adapter from OWS that allowed use of the .45 Colt in the M-H

I will be looking for one of those. I already load .45 Colt for my Colt New Service and I have lots of brass. Thanks for the heads up on the correct bullets.


There is also the "II" over 1894 stamped on the upper left hand of stock. It looks like a British armory stamp and I assume that it was either overhauled or inspected at that time. The stamp that would denote the arsenal where it was done is just too hard to read so I can't identify where that was, darn it.

Overall I am pretty happy with this rifle. As is usual, it was an impulse buy because it just seemed like a good price for a M-H in good condition. My interests seem to be drifting in two separate directions lately. I have simultaneously become fascinated with these early military rifles and at the same time I really like pre ban semi auto military guns.

[varifleman]

Very nice rifle; thanks for sharing. I enjoy shooting my 1878 MKII occasionally; has a very nice bore and shoots well.

[darkgael]

Another detail....one other "improvement" that I added to my M-H was a slip on "sniper" sight that I found in the Dixie Gun Works catalog.
It fits over the muzzle end (of course) and is held in place by a set screw. Not wanting to scratch the barrel as well as wanting a tighter fit, I cut a strip of plastic from a milk bottle and used it as a bushing to center the sight.
Looks like this:

[T. O'Heir]

"...she ruled till 1910..." She'd been dead 9 years by then.
The .45 Colt uses a .452" diameter bullet. The .577-450 uses .455" to .460" bullets. Mind you, bullets are relatively easy to find.

[darkgael]

Bullets. The M-H should be slugged to determine proper bullet diameter. My own M-H uses bullets of .468 diameter. Some years ago, i had a bunch made for me by the now defunct Liberty Cast Bullets. Since then, i have used swaged bullets that I paper patch to .468.
The Lee REAL bullet has a driving band that is .464....this is sufficient for it to work and give the results pictured. Notice that the bullet will not seat completely into a 45 Colt case.
Note: slugging a M-H barrel. Henry rifling has an odd number of lands and grooves so one cannot measure a slug the "normal" way.
Measuring the slug accurately requires using the old millwright's trick of rotating the slug between the jaws of a caliper as the jaws are slowly closed onto the slug.

[darkgael]

Cases :


Five manufacturers here: Kynoch, Bertram, RMC, GS Custom (not marked as so), and two CBC 24 gauge shotshell hulls that have been reformed to 577-450 and had their primer holes opened to accept 209 shotshell primers.
The GS cases came from South Africa and are odd because the interior of the case is a single diameter from mouth to case head...0.458". Large turned, they are very stiff and cannot be resized (nor do they need to be).