Why not? FN 5.7 revolver...

mr kablammo · July 30, 2009, 08:13 PM

Sirs, the ever-popular "what gun for my wife/girlfriend" thread has gotten me to thinking about a low-recoiling but potent cartridge in the revolver platform. A friend bought his wife a S & W 0.22 magnum revolver. He likes to carry the FN 5.7 semi-auto. Why not combine the two?

What are your thoughts about making a revolver to chamber the FN 5.7 cartridge? Other than the rim/rimless problem, could it work? Would it sell?

**Tom Servo** · July 30, 2009, 09:21 PM

It's been done before. It was just called .22 Jet last time

Of course, as with the Jet, you can expect case-head separations and other problems. Cartridges that headspace on the shoulder haven't worked well in revolvers in the past, as they tend to smack violently against the recoil shield and can cause stoppages.

Taurus had a similar thing at the Shot Show, but in 4.6mm, and I haven't heard anything about it since.

Crosshair · July 30, 2009, 09:23 PM

Just get a 22 magnum handgun. That or a Taurus raging Hornet.

Locoweed · July 31, 2009, 11:35 AM

I had a Taurus revolver chambered in .17 HMR, a bottleneck cartridge. Unless the chamber was kept spotlessly clean and dry the cases would set back on firing and rub hard against the recoil shield with every shot. Then it became hard to cock for the next shot. Cartridges with shoulders just don't work well in revolvers.

CraigC · July 31, 2009, 12:59 PM

Don't see why not. Gary Reeder makes his bottlenecks work in revolvers and he has just about every flavor. Little taper and sharp shoulders seem to do the trick. I'd like to see Ruger chamber it in the 77/22 as well.

FA also has a new .224-.32 cartridge that apparently works well in revolvers. A .327 necked-down.

ReNtaPiG · July 31, 2009, 01:44 PM

I'm a HUGE fan of FN!

I'm currently saving $ for the PS90...the 5.7 round is awesome in every way, I do however have a problem with the styling of the 5.7 semi-auto since I think it's uglier than my Glock

LOL

Elvishead · July 31, 2009, 06:21 PM

I say why!

Money? Engineering? R&D? Low or no sales?

Maxi Mag almost as powerful?

.22 Maxi Mag. WMR* 40 Solid 1,910 324 ft-lbs.

5.7 40g Muzzle Velocity: 2,034 F.P.S. Muzzle Energy: 367 ft.-lbs.

CraigC · July 31, 2009, 06:57 PM

Your .22Mag velocity is from a rifle length barrel. Figure on 1550-1650fps out of a sixgun. So yeah, I'd say 400fps is a worthy gain.

seeker_two · July 31, 2009, 10:42 PM

Since the 5.7 is rimless, the moon clips needed for a DA revolver could mitigate the problems of the Jet....

Elvishead · July 31, 2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

CraigC:

Your .22Mag velocity is from a rifle length barrel. Figure on 1550-1650fps out of a sixgun. So yeah, I'd say 400fps is a worthy gain.

Are you sure that 5.7 wasn't rated out of a PS90 "Rifle"?

I think I read somewhere that FN 5.7x28 round I was talking about was more closer to 1800 fps, but I'm afraid I can't back that up because it was a long time sense I research it, and I forgot my source's.

How about you, were is your source's from?

mr kablammo · July 31, 2009, 11:08 PM

OK, it seems to be there are two main objections to the proposal.
One is that ballistically similar cartridges are already available and have not been winners.

The second is that the revolver won't provide proper support against the base of the cartridge to prevent the brass from blowing itself apart.

My copy of "Understanding Firearms Balistics" was published prior to the advent of the 5.7 so I will defer on the issue of 'been done before'.

Still, having fired both the pistol and the PS 90 I remain impressed by the pep and almost straight-line laser-like speed. I still think a revolver would sell enough to be viable if the engineering was worked out.

Why not develop a hammer with a shortened spur fitted to a base sized to fit and support the cartridge?

Overall, I think EH's statement on balistics has the most weight.

w_houle · July 31, 2009, 11:10 PM

If that, then why not a .223/ 5.56 revolver? I can't buy 5.7 locally, but can buy .223 at all the shops that carry ammunition.

Elvishead · July 31, 2009, 11:18 PM

Read this from the www.The-armory.com

5.7x28mm 40-gr V-MAX (Blue Tip) FN ammo SS197SR (50 rds)
$24.95
10700017

5.7x28mm FN Ammunition
The 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge was designed for pistols, submachine guns, personal defense weapons and carbines. It was developed by Fabrique Nationale Herstal (FN Herstal), Belgium and primarily marketed to European militaries for use by vehicle crewmen, artillery personnel and combat engineers and as a military and law enforcement round that has more effective performance against modern body armor when compared with traditional pistol caliber ammunition. The ammo for the civilian market WILL NOT penetrate Level IIA and Level IIIA Kevlar, Kevlar 129 or Spectra vests, contrary to popular myth put originated by misguided politicians and gun control advocates trying to advance their agenda. Ballistically, the 5.7 round is very similar to the .22 WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) round.

The 5.7x28mm rounds are bottle-necked cartridges with .224 inch (5.7 mm) bullets and come in several versions. 5.7 ammunition is characterized by high muzzle velocity and low recoil, and were designed to be more effective against modern body armor when used in pistols, submachine guns, or carbines.

The following is a list of ammunition (both current and discontinued) manufactured for the 5.7 x 28mm caliber. The civilan rounds are listed first.

CraigC · August 2, 2009, 02:07 PM

In loading data published by Ramshot and Accurate, I see velocities ranging from 1670-2044fps for a 40gr bullet out of a 5" barrel. I'd say that that's a noticeable gain over the .22Mag, not to mention the economic advantage of rolling your own and a higher BC than anything the .22Mag offers in a 40gr weight.

Quote:

If that, then why not a .223/ 5.56 revolver?

Because the cylinder would have to be waaay too long to be practical. Let alone performance concerns. The 5.7x28 will fit in standard size revolvers.

Quote:

The second is that the revolver won't provide proper support against the base of the cartridge to prevent the brass from blowing itself apart.

How do you figure???

Webleymkv · August 2, 2009, 02:49 PM

Why not just make a DA revolver in .25-20 Winchester? It would seem more practical than 5.7FN

CraigC · August 2, 2009, 04:31 PM

Because while the 5.7 is designed to operate at lofty pressures, the .25-20 is not. Cases are paper thin and prone to failure after but a handful of heavy loadings. Bullet selection is also dismal, as is anything even remotely resembling a spitzer. The taper and neck of the .25-20 would also introduce the common problems when running a bottleneck cartridge in a revolver at elevated pressures. Not a big deal at SAAMI pressures but a definite issue when running at levels that would equal the 5.7x28. If it could ever even reach those velocities.

p99guy · August 2, 2009, 05:53 PM

The Armory.com got some facts completely wrong to put it lightly( one of which is the part with kevlar) SS195 crono's out of the 10.3 inch barrel of my PS90 short barreled rifle at 2465-2480fps by the way.

SS196 is the one they downloaded enough to not go though a LII, to appease the brady bunch when fired from the pistol.

SS195 fired from the pistol will make make it through L1, L1+,IIA,and II
(IIIA when fired from the PS90)

SS197 will not penetrate a IIIA when fired from the pistol, but still will out of a PS90

FN produced ammo is weaker than that produced by Elite Ammunition, who also loads on virgin brass made for them.

CraigC · August 3, 2009, 06:58 PM

Is there any problem obtaining a 10" PS90 with the proper SBR tax stamp?

Here's a link to the Gunblast article on the FA .224-32 model 97. Velocities are very similar to what you get out of a PS90.
http://www.gunblast.com/Freedom97-224-32.htm

p99guy · August 3, 2009, 10:34 PM

Not at all, as long as you live in a state that allows them, do the ATF form 1 packet on your PS90, and pay the tax...then wait for the Form 1 to come back with the affixed tax stamp. Then get a P90 barrel and flash hider/barrel retainer from cmmg. you have to go get your receiver engraved because you are the "Maker" or send it off to one of the gunsmiths doing the conversion for you, and they will mark it.

they come in at 19.75 inches long

CraigC · August 4, 2009, 09:29 AM

Sweet, thanks!

Crosshair · August 8, 2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Since the 5.7 is rimless, the moon clips needed for a DA revolver could mitigate the problems of the Jet....

The 22 Jet had so many problems because it was so heavily tapered. If it was shaped more like an Ackley Improved cartridge it would not have been so serious a problem.

Magnum Wheel Man · August 9, 2009, 05:45 PM

... errr... well actually this a custom fast twist 22 Hornet... IMO best of both worlds...

this pic with the new grips, & without the comp / flash hider...

this older pic with the factory "raging" grips but with the very effective comp / flash hider installed

BTW... I have a 10" Contender barrel in 5.7 X 28 so I load for it & my 5.7 pistol as well

my FN... & 1st plastic gun...

BTW... I load 55 grain Sierra boat tail spitzers in both this fast twist 22 Hornet, & in my 5.7 X 28... IMO, with the Sierra or the 2 Barnes bullets I load... no comparision to anything available in the rim mag

July 30, 2009, 08:13 PM	#1
mr kablammo Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Posts: 241	Why not? FN 5.7 revolver... Sirs, the ever-popular "what gun for my wife/girlfriend" thread has gotten me to thinking about a low-recoiling but potent cartridge in the revolver platform. A friend bought his wife a S & W 0.22 magnum revolver. He likes to carry the FN 5.7 semi-auto. Why not combine the two? What are your thoughts about making a revolver to chamber the FN 5.7 cartridge? Other than the rim/rimless problem, could it work? Would it sell?

July 30, 2009, 09:21 PM	#2
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	It's been done before. It was just called .22 Jet last time Of course, as with the Jet, you can expect case-head separations and other problems. Cartridges that headspace on the shoulder haven't worked well in revolvers in the past, as they tend to smack violently against the recoil shield and can cause stoppages. Taurus had a similar thing at the Shot Show, but in 4.6mm, and I haven't heard anything about it since. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

July 30, 2009, 09:23 PM	#3
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Just get a 22 magnum handgun. That or a Taurus raging Hornet. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

July 31, 2009, 10:42 PM	#9
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	Since the 5.7 is rimless, the moon clips needed for a DA revolver could mitigate the problems of the Jet.... __________________ Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......

July 31, 2009, 11:08 PM	#11
mr kablammo Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Posts: 241	OK, it seems to be there are two main objections to the proposal. One is that ballistically similar cartridges are already available and have not been winners. The second is that the revolver won't provide proper support against the base of the cartridge to prevent the brass from blowing itself apart. My copy of "Understanding Firearms Balistics" was published prior to the advent of the 5.7 so I will defer on the issue of 'been done before'. Still, having fired both the pistol and the PS 90 I remain impressed by the pep and almost straight-line laser-like speed. I still think a revolver would sell enough to be viable if the engineering was worked out. Why not develop a hammer with a shortened spur fitted to a base sized to fit and support the cartridge? Overall, I think EH's statement on balistics has the most weight. Last edited by mr kablammo; July 31, 2009 at 11:10 PM. Reason: more reading

July 31, 2009, 11:35 AM	#4
Locoweed Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 661	I had a Taurus revolver chambered in .17 HMR, a bottleneck cartridge. Unless the chamber was kept spotlessly clean and dry the cases would set back on firing and rub hard against the recoil shield with every shot. Then it became hard to cock for the next shot. Cartridges with shoulders just don't work well in revolvers.

July 31, 2009, 12:59 PM	#5
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Don't see why not. Gary Reeder makes his bottlenecks work in revolvers and he has just about every flavor. Little taper and sharp shoulders seem to do the trick. I'd like to see Ruger chamber it in the 77/22 as well. FA also has a new .224-.32 cartridge that apparently works well in revolvers. A .327 necked-down.

July 31, 2009, 01:44 PM	#6
ReNtaPiG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Posts: 310	I'm a HUGE fan of FN! I'm currently saving $ for the PS90...the 5.7 round is awesome in every way, I do however have a problem with the styling of the 5.7 semi-auto since I think it's uglier than my Glock LOL

July 31, 2009, 06:21 PM	#7
Elvishead Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Las vegas, NV Posts: 3,397	I say why! Money? Engineering? R&D? Low or no sales? Maxi Mag almost as powerful? .22 Maxi Mag. WMR* 40 Solid 1,910 324 ft-lbs. 5.7 40g Muzzle Velocity: 2,034 F.P.S. Muzzle Energy: 367 ft.-lbs.

July 31, 2009, 06:57 PM	#8
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Your .22Mag velocity is from a rifle length barrel. Figure on 1550-1650fps out of a sixgun. So yeah, I'd say 400fps is a worthy gain.

July 31, 2009, 11:10 PM	#12
w_houle Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,391	If that, then why not a .223/ 5.56 revolver? I can't buy 5.7 locally, but can buy .223 at all the shops that carry ammunition. __________________ How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?

July 31, 2009, 11:18 PM	#13
Elvishead Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Las vegas, NV Posts: 3,397	Read this from the www.The-armory.com 5.7x28mm 40-gr V-MAX (Blue Tip) FN ammo SS197SR (50 rds) $24.95 10700017 5.7x28mm FN Ammunition The 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge was designed for pistols, submachine guns, personal defense weapons and carbines. It was developed by Fabrique Nationale Herstal (FN Herstal), Belgium and primarily marketed to European militaries for use by vehicle crewmen, artillery personnel and combat engineers and as a military and law enforcement round that has more effective performance against modern body armor when compared with traditional pistol caliber ammunition. The ammo for the civilian market WILL NOT penetrate Level IIA and Level IIIA Kevlar, Kevlar 129 or Spectra vests, contrary to popular myth put originated by misguided politicians and gun control advocates trying to advance their agenda. Ballistically, the 5.7 round is very similar to the .22 WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) round. The 5.7x28mm rounds are bottle-necked cartridges with .224 inch (5.7 mm) bullets and come in several versions. 5.7 ammunition is characterized by high muzzle velocity and low recoil, and were designed to be more effective against modern body armor when used in pistols, submachine guns, or carbines. The following is a list of ammunition (both current and discontinued) manufactured for the 5.7 x 28mm caliber. The civilan rounds are listed first.

August 2, 2009, 02:49 PM	#15
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Why not just make a DA revolver in .25-20 Winchester? It would seem more practical than 5.7FN

August 2, 2009, 04:31 PM	#16
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Because while the 5.7 is designed to operate at lofty pressures, the .25-20 is not. Cases are paper thin and prone to failure after but a handful of heavy loadings. Bullet selection is also dismal, as is anything even remotely resembling a spitzer. The taper and neck of the .25-20 would also introduce the common problems when running a bottleneck cartridge in a revolver at elevated pressures. Not a big deal at SAAMI pressures but a definite issue when running at levels that would equal the 5.7x28. If it could ever even reach those velocities.

August 2, 2009, 05:53 PM	#17
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	The Armory.com got some facts completely wrong to put it lightly( one of which is the part with kevlar) SS195 crono's out of the 10.3 inch barrel of my PS90 short barreled rifle at 2465-2480fps by the way. SS196 is the one they downloaded enough to not go though a LII, to appease the brady bunch when fired from the pistol. SS195 fired from the pistol will make make it through L1, L1+,IIA,and II (IIIA when fired from the PS90) SS197 will not penetrate a IIIA when fired from the pistol, but still will out of a PS90 FN produced ammo is weaker than that produced by Elite Ammunition, who also loads on virgin brass made for them. __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

August 3, 2009, 06:58 PM	#18
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Is there any problem obtaining a 10" PS90 with the proper SBR tax stamp? Here's a link to the Gunblast article on the FA .224-32 model 97. Velocities are very similar to what you get out of a PS90. http://www.gunblast.com/Freedom97-224-32.htm Last edited by CraigC; August 3, 2009 at 07:04 PM.

August 3, 2009, 10:34 PM	#19
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	Not at all, as long as you live in a state that allows them, do the ATF form 1 packet on your PS90, and pay the tax...then wait for the Form 1 to come back with the affixed tax stamp. Then get a P90 barrel and flash hider/barrel retainer from cmmg. you have to go get your receiver engraved because you are the "Maker" or send it off to one of the gunsmiths doing the conversion for you, and they will mark it. they come in at 19.75 inches long __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes" Last edited by p99guy; August 3, 2009 at 10:41 PM.

August 4, 2009, 09:29 AM	#20
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	Sweet, thanks!