all-around NA hunting caliber

youngun · May 27, 2002, 04:00 PM

I did a cursory search, for those of you who would suggest it....

I'm interested in folks' opinions on a good all-around hunting rifle for US/Canada.

Seems the contenders are .270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag - the first being a little on the light side, the last being a bit much.

Assuming you already have a .22 LR and a .375 H&H, what best fits this bill?

Thanks.

youngun

Art Eatman · May 27, 2002, 04:34 PM

"Assuming you already have a .22 LR and a .375 H&H, what best fits this bill?"

We have a number of folks here who adore the .375 H&H for big bear, moose and elk.

Now, the .375 isn't necessary for elk, but if you already have one, you can move down a bit and limit the intermediate cartridge for one suitable for deer and antelope. Since you already have a .22 rimfire, you're also including varmint-shooting capability in this intermediate cartridge.

IMO, the .243 or 6mm Rem are a bit light for mule deer. A .25-'06 or .270 is good for mulies and antelope and varmints. A 7mm-08 would also do well. (No flies on .308 or '06, but I'm sorta trying to stay in "middle-ground".)

There are numerous other cartridges which would serve, but the above should provide an idea of reasonable power levels.

, Art

MarineTech · May 27, 2002, 05:00 PM

I think you're going to find that you can hunt just about anything in North America with the exclusion of the very biggest game with a 30-06.

The really redeeming feature is there is such a wide variety of loadings and weights that you can find something right for everything from squirrels to moose.

priv8ter · May 27, 2002, 05:35 PM

While I am dyed-in-wool 7mm Magnum fan, I will admit that it doesn't quite have the same flexibility as an '06. I can't believe that almost 100 years after it was introduced, we haven't found anything that can do everything it will do.

My question is this: is there really such thing as TOO much for a deer rifle? I mean, aside from strange looks from the locals, what is wrong with using a .338 on a Mississipi white tail? How much meat will you really lose?

C.R.Sam · May 27, 2002, 06:07 PM

1......30-06
2.....Any of lebenteen others that would do just fine.

Sam

Dan Morris · May 27, 2002, 06:40 PM

JMO, I'd stick with the old 06...I've used one for about 40 years
and haven't found anything yet that it won't take. Ammo is abailable almost every where. With proper shot placement, it will take anything on the NA continent without the muzzle blast.
Dan

Opinions are like eyeballs, most folks have them

Art Eatman · May 27, 2002, 10:25 PM

"...eyeballs", Dan?

I reckon my views on the '06 are well known; it's my "If I only had one rifle" choice.

If I were certainteed sure of a neck shot on an Alaskan bear, I'd touch her off. I'd sure never worry about any other NA animal.

, Art

Al Thompson · May 28, 2002, 05:25 AM

My take is that there is no big difference (assuming good bullets with the same SD) from the 6.5/.270 to the .300 Win Mag. All are fine to 300 yards, then your higher velocities help with a bit flatter trajectory to 400 y or so. Beyond that, range estimation and wind really raise cain.

What I like about the .30-06 is the availability of ammo.

As to "too much gun" for critters, it just isn't a problem. I've killed a spate of stuff with a .375 and you just get a hole in the critter. When you start to get severe meat damage is when you use a fast caliber in close. Couple of examples - one buddy hit a deer with a .25-06 (not sure of bullet) in the shoulder at close range and vaporized the shoulder. Another club member poped a whitetail between the shoulder blades from a tree stand (maybe 25 feet) with a .308 silvertip. Massive damage. But as Elmer said, you can eat lmost to the hole.

I will always rather have some meat damage that a lost wounded deer. Which is what a lot of the sub .25 caliber users seem to report more frequantly than the < .25 caliber shooters.

Giz

aerod1 · May 28, 2002, 07:52 PM

...that's simple.....30-06!
Jim Hall

Sixgun · May 28, 2002, 09:21 PM

All around caliber for North American game would be .54, as in a .54 caliber Hawkins rifle from T/C Arms.

You can use lite loads with roundball for small to medium game and then use heavy loads with Maxi-Ball conicals for the really big game

TC Hawkins rifle

youngun · May 28, 2002, 10:46 PM

Nice to see so much support for the '06.
It's what I was settling into.

Now, Winchester pre '64 M70 or Ruger 77?

Also, how do the "new" pre '64's rate?
Is it the same animal?

Thanks again

Art Eatman · May 29, 2002, 06:36 AM

While it's a guess about day-to-day quality, today's rifles have the potential for better accuracy than the older ones, just because of better equipment. Higher control of tolerances in turning or milling; sharper cutting edges.

This quality issue is of lesser importance in a hunting rifle, as one does not need 1/4 MOA to kill an elk.

That said, there is often a "feel" to older rifles that is somehow missing in the new versions. Don't ask me to define it; it's an individual thing.

I've always been impressed by the NIB accuracy of the Rugers I've had, both the 77 and the 77 Mk II. The factory trigger in the latter needs replacing, however.

I've always had one MOA accuracy out of pre-64 Model 70s, and they do have a great "feel" to them.

Hope this ramblin' helps,

Art

Dan Morris · May 29, 2002, 06:37 AM

You will NEVER beat the pre 64 M70....again, just my opinion.
Dan

H&H,hunter · May 29, 2002, 02:20 PM

That's an easy one, if it can't be done with a 30-06 it can't be done at all.

If I were to have only one rifle in NA that would be it.

mercury angel · May 30, 2002, 01:11 AM

What about a Marlin 30-30 for a general rifle, or are the bullets to large for just any game?

I'm looking to getting a Deer rifle and I want to know what the purpose of a 30-30 over a 30-06 would be.

~Merc

yorec · May 30, 2002, 02:32 AM

With a .375 in the closet, I'd go with the .270. Just my personal biased opinion...

labgrade · May 30, 2002, 05:41 AM

mercury,

The two shoot the same diameter bullet, although bullet construction is different due to action types & velocities.

.30-30's a "150 yard" gun, where the .30-06 can be used easily enough at twice that range. '06 can shoot a heavier bullet faster = bigger stuff & further away.

.30-30's fine for a more woodsy area where shots will be relatively short(er), but the .30-06 is certainly decent up close as well.

.30-06 is plenty good for anything NA while the .308's actually my current fave.

Jeeper · May 30, 2002, 10:21 AM

Having a 375 that you could use for everything from elk up then I would go for a 264 winchester mag. It shoots extremely flat for use on longer range game like antelope. It is also easily powerful enough for mule dear or even elk if you desire. There are also really light bullets for small stuff like prairie dogs. It shoots a lot flatter than anything else mentioned and has fantastic sectional density at the heavier bullet ranges.

Dr.Rob · May 30, 2002, 03:55 PM

30-06: lots of bullet wieghts, easy to find ammo, lots of good rifles.

.308 does everything a 30-06 can do except load a 220 grain bullet.
270 is a nice mid size critter gun, but I wouldn't use it on a moose.

If the answer is everything BUT Alaskan bears, the 30-06 is hard to beat.

Elker_43 · May 30, 2002, 03:57 PM

I have shot many a fine caliber, but after using the '06 (Winchester M70) for 35 years on everything except Moose and larger, and then a 7mmMag (Ruger 77) for the past five years on everything except Moose and larger, I am hard pressed to select the winner.

I would suggest that either caliber would be a winner!!

youngun · June 4, 2002, 01:31 AM

Well, Elker, which of the two rifles do you like better, caliber aside?
I'm going for a 7mm mag or 30-06, teetering toward the '06 mostly because of the lower recoil.
I think if I found the right rifle in either I'd take it.
Around here I can get a new M70 for around $600 or less.
The Rugers go for about $450.

Al Thompson · June 4, 2002, 06:44 AM

IIRC, one of the reasons for the choice of 7mm was to get the speed of the bullet up while not having more recoil than a .30-06. From my experiance, there is not much if any difference.

Elker_43 · June 4, 2002, 02:04 PM

Well, there is not much of a difference between the two as far as I can tell on the recoil....Course I did have a BOSS installed on the Ruger which may have made the simularity.

To answer your question, I guess after all considerations the 7mm with a BOSS might be a choice that I would recommend. However, that old '06 sure still lingers in my mind.

Happy Shootin!

jrslate · June 8, 2002, 11:15 AM

Gentlemen,

My choice for a great all around NA (and most of Africa too) rifle is my Ruger M77 MkII in 7mm Rem Mag. I have used in on game from blacktail to eland, and it has worked excellent. I put a Hogue pillar-bedded stock to replace the canoe paddle factory stock, and the accuracy is phenomenol. No problem shooting 1/2 MOA.

175 gr. Nosler Partitions over a healthy charge of IMR 7828 works like a champ.

That being said, I really don't think you could go wrong with a .30-06 or .308 either.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

Andrew Wyatt · June 10, 2002, 06:01 PM

If i had only one long gun, it'd be a .308.

.308s are more comfortable, muzzle blast wise in shorter barrel lengths, so you can have a shorter, handier rifle compared to an 06.

the savage scout or the ruger m77 mkII compact would be near the top of my list, as well as a short action model 70 (pre64 ish).

unfortunately for me, i'm a lefty, so i basically can't find a short action bolt gun in .308 with the bolt handle on the proper side, with a mauser extractor.

May 27, 2002, 04:00 PM	#1
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 324	all-around NA hunting caliber I did a cursory search, for those of you who would suggest it.... I'm interested in folks' opinions on a good all-around hunting rifle for US/Canada. Seems the contenders are .270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag - the first being a little on the light side, the last being a bit much. Assuming you already have a .22 LR and a .375 H&H, what best fits this bill? Thanks. youngun __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

May 27, 2002, 05:00 PM	#3
MarineTech Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2002 Location: Southern Maine US Posts: 299	I think you're going to find that you can hunt just about anything in North America with the exclusion of the very biggest game with a 30-06. The really redeeming feature is there is such a wide variety of loadings and weights that you can find something right for everything from squirrels to moose. __________________ Morituri Nolumus Mori - We who are about to die, don't want to. -

May 27, 2002, 05:35 PM	#4
priv8ter Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2002 Location: Silverdale, Wa Posts: 356	Springfield While I am dyed-in-wool 7mm Magnum fan, I will admit that it doesn't quite have the same flexibility as an '06. I can't believe that almost 100 years after it was introduced, we haven't found anything that can do everything it will do. My question is this: is there really such thing as TOO much for a deer rifle? I mean, aside from strange looks from the locals, what is wrong with using a .338 on a Mississipi white tail? How much meat will you really lose? __________________ "Get a shot off fast. This upsets him long enough to make your second shot perfect" "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" -Lazerus Long

May 27, 2002, 06:07 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	1......30-06 2.....Any of lebenteen others that would do just fine. Sam __________________ Sam I am, grn egs n packin Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."

May 28, 2002, 05:25 AM	#8
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	My take is that there is no big difference (assuming good bullets with the same SD) from the 6.5/.270 to the .300 Win Mag. All are fine to 300 yards, then your higher velocities help with a bit flatter trajectory to 400 y or so. Beyond that, range estimation and wind really raise cain. What I like about the .30-06 is the availability of ammo. As to "too much gun" for critters, it just isn't a problem. I've killed a spate of stuff with a .375 and you just get a hole in the critter. When you start to get severe meat damage is when you use a fast caliber in close. Couple of examples - one buddy hit a deer with a .25-06 (not sure of bullet) in the shoulder at close range and vaporized the shoulder. Another club member poped a whitetail between the shoulder blades from a tree stand (maybe 25 feet) with a .308 silvertip. Massive damage. But as Elmer said, you can eat lmost to the hole. I will always rather have some meat damage that a lost wounded deer. Which is what a lot of the sub .25 caliber users seem to report more frequantly than the < .25 caliber shooters. Giz __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

May 27, 2002, 04:34 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"Assuming you already have a .22 LR and a .375 H&H, what best fits this bill?" We have a number of folks here who adore the .375 H&H for big bear, moose and elk. Now, the .375 isn't necessary for elk, but if you already have one, you can move down a bit and limit the intermediate cartridge for one suitable for deer and antelope. Since you already have a .22 rimfire, you're also including varmint-shooting capability in this intermediate cartridge. IMO, the .243 or 6mm Rem are a bit light for mule deer. A .25-'06 or .270 is good for mulies and antelope and varmints. A 7mm-08 would also do well. (No flies on .308 or '06, but I'm sorta trying to stay in "middle-ground".) There are numerous other cartridges which would serve, but the above should provide an idea of reasonable power levels. , Art

May 27, 2002, 06:40 PM	#6
Dan Morris Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2001 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 342	JMO, I'd stick with the old 06...I've used one for about 40 years and haven't found anything yet that it won't take. Ammo is abailable almost every where. With proper shot placement, it will take anything on the NA continent without the muzzle blast. Dan Opinions are like eyeballs, most folks have them

May 27, 2002, 10:25 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"...eyeballs", Dan? I reckon my views on the '06 are well known; it's my "If I only had one rifle" choice. If I were certainteed sure of a neck shot on an Alaskan bear, I'd touch her off. I'd sure never worry about any other NA animal. , Art

May 28, 2002, 07:52 PM	#9
aerod1 Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: Garland Texas U.S.A. Posts: 734	...that's simple.....30-06! Jim Hall __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member, C&R 03 FFL, Texas LTC Recreational Reloader U.S. Navy Veteran (USS Midway V-1 Division)

May 28, 2002, 09:21 PM	#10
Sixgun Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2002 Posts: 50	All around caliber for North American game would be .54, as in a .54 caliber Hawkins rifle from T/C Arms. You can use lite loads with roundball for small to medium game and then use heavy loads with Maxi-Ball conicals for the really big game TC Hawkins rifle

May 28, 2002, 10:46 PM	#11
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 324	Nice to see so much support for the '06. It's what I was settling into. Now, Winchester pre '64 M70 or Ruger 77? Also, how do the "new" pre '64's rate? Is it the same animal? Thanks again __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

May 29, 2002, 06:36 AM	#12
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	While it's a guess about day-to-day quality, today's rifles have the potential for better accuracy than the older ones, just because of better equipment. Higher control of tolerances in turning or milling; sharper cutting edges. This quality issue is of lesser importance in a hunting rifle, as one does not need 1/4 MOA to kill an elk. That said, there is often a "feel" to older rifles that is somehow missing in the new versions. Don't ask me to define it; it's an individual thing. I've always been impressed by the NIB accuracy of the Rugers I've had, both the 77 and the 77 Mk II. The factory trigger in the latter needs replacing, however. I've always had one MOA accuracy out of pre-64 Model 70s, and they do have a great "feel" to them. Hope this ramblin' helps, Art

May 29, 2002, 06:37 AM	#13
Dan Morris Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2001 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 342	You will NEVER beat the pre 64 M70....again, just my opinion. Dan

May 29, 2002, 02:20 PM	#14
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	That's an easy one, if it can't be done with a 30-06 it can't be done at all. If I were to have only one rifle in NA that would be it.

May 30, 2002, 01:11 AM	#15
mercury angel Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 9	I have one good question... What about a Marlin 30-30 for a general rifle, or are the bullets to large for just any game? I'm looking to getting a Deer rifle and I want to know what the purpose of a 30-30 over a 30-06 would be. ~Merc

May 30, 2002, 02:32 AM	#16
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	With a .375 in the closet, I'd go with the .270. Just my personal biased opinion... __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

May 30, 2002, 05:41 AM	#17
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	mercury, The two shoot the same diameter bullet, although bullet construction is different due to action types & velocities. .30-30's a "150 yard" gun, where the .30-06 can be used easily enough at twice that range. '06 can shoot a heavier bullet faster = bigger stuff & further away. .30-30's fine for a more woodsy area where shots will be relatively short(er), but the .30-06 is certainly decent up close as well. .30-06 is plenty good for anything NA while the .308's actually my current fave.

May 30, 2002, 10:21 AM	#18
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	Having a 375 that you could use for everything from elk up then I would go for a 264 winchester mag. It shoots extremely flat for use on longer range game like antelope. It is also easily powerful enough for mule dear or even elk if you desire. There are also really light bullets for small stuff like prairie dogs. It shoots a lot flatter than anything else mentioned and has fantastic sectional density at the heavier bullet ranges. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

May 30, 2002, 03:55 PM	#19
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	30-06: lots of bullet wieghts, easy to find ammo, lots of good rifles. .308 does everything a 30-06 can do except load a 220 grain bullet. 270 is a nice mid size critter gun, but I wouldn't use it on a moose. If the answer is everything BUT Alaskan bears, the 30-06 is hard to beat. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!

May 30, 2002, 03:57 PM	#20
Elker_43 Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 1999 Location: Idaho Posts: 489	A toss up. I have shot many a fine caliber, but after using the '06 (Winchester M70) for 35 years on everything except Moose and larger, and then a 7mmMag (Ruger 77) for the past five years on everything except Moose and larger, I am hard pressed to select the winner. I would suggest that either caliber would be a winner!! __________________ To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state. Winchesters Forever (Levers and Pumps 73s, 90s, 92s, 06s, 61s and 63s)

June 4, 2002, 01:31 AM	#21
youngun Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 324	Well, Elker, which of the two rifles do you like better, caliber aside? I'm going for a 7mm mag or 30-06, teetering toward the '06 mostly because of the lower recoil. I think if I found the right rifle in either I'd take it. Around here I can get a new M70 for around $600 or less. The Rugers go for about $450. __________________ New firing pin: $12. New extractor: $15. Ballistic fingerprinting: worthless.

June 4, 2002, 06:44 AM	#22
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	IIRC, one of the reasons for the choice of 7mm was to get the speed of the bullet up while not having more recoil than a .30-06. From my experiance, there is not much if any difference. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

June 4, 2002, 02:04 PM	#23
Elker_43 Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 1999 Location: Idaho Posts: 489	I agree, not much of a difference! Well, there is not much of a difference between the two as far as I can tell on the recoil....Course I did have a BOSS installed on the Ruger which may have made the simularity. To answer your question, I guess after all considerations the 7mm with a BOSS might be a choice that I would recommend. However, that old '06 sure still lingers in my mind. Happy Shootin! __________________ To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state. Winchesters Forever (Levers and Pumps 73s, 90s, 92s, 06s, 61s and 63s)

June 8, 2002, 11:15 AM	#24
jrslate Member Join Date: November 10, 2001 Posts: 51	Gentlemen, My choice for a great all around NA (and most of Africa too) rifle is my Ruger M77 MkII in 7mm Rem Mag. I have used in on game from blacktail to eland, and it has worked excellent. I put a Hogue pillar-bedded stock to replace the canoe paddle factory stock, and the accuracy is phenomenol. No problem shooting 1/2 MOA. 175 gr. Nosler Partitions over a healthy charge of IMR 7828 works like a champ. That being said, I really don't think you could go wrong with a .30-06 or .308 either. Joel Slate Slate & Associates, LLC www.slatesafaris.com 7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

June 10, 2002, 06:01 PM	#25
Andrew Wyatt Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2002 Location: Bakersfield, Kommiefornia Posts: 549	If i had only one long gun, it'd be a .308. .308s are more comfortable, muzzle blast wise in shorter barrel lengths, so you can have a shorter, handier rifle compared to an 06. the savage scout or the ruger m77 mkII compact would be near the top of my list, as well as a short action model 70 (pre64 ish). unfortunately for me, i'm a lefty, so i basically can't find a short action bolt gun in .308 with the bolt handle on the proper side, with a mauser extractor.