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Old February 4, 2011, 09:07 AM   #1
dnmccoy
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Noob seeking Jedi-like advice

So I got the better halfs permission to start getting some reloading equipment, which was easier than I thought now that she has her own .380 and loves to shoot! Im looking at Lee equipment, based on my budget, and I can't imagine how a company would still be around after all this time if they put out a crappy product. As of right now we'll be reloading 9mm, .380 and .223. Im leaning towards the classic turret setup, but noticed that the only kits for the turrets are for the newer, aluminum version. Does anyone make a kit with the classic turret? If not, is the newer aluminum version as good as the classic? Im sure Ill think of more questions, and I thank everyone in advance
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Old February 4, 2011, 09:18 AM   #2
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Kempf offers a Classic Turret kit for $177. The cast iron Classic Turret is in a class by itself - great press. Here's a comprehensive review of the LCT press and comparison to the aluminum deluxe turret.
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Old February 4, 2011, 09:26 AM   #3
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The older style turret press isn't half the press that the Classic Turret press is. The Classic is much more sturdy and has four stations instead of three. I would avoid the original turret press.
Quote:
I can't imagine how a company would still be around after all this time if they put out a crappy product.
You'll find that Lee makes a lot of great products but that not all of them are the best solution for everyone. They make use of aluminum and plastic in many places where nobody else will. Many of their tools feel cheap and aren't nearly as sturdy or easy to use as competing tools from other companies. Lee is almost always going to have the least expensive version of any tool that you can buy and sometimes, it's by a colossal margin.

I use a lot of Lee tools and I like them very much and I think almost all of their tools have some use to some folks, but there are plenty of places where paying more for a tool from a different manufacturer will pay off.

Two places where you can't miss with Lee are in the "classic" series of reloading press and also in their reloading dies.

Two places where you will feel limited with their products are in powder measure needs and with their scale. Other tools can go either way.
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Old February 4, 2011, 09:45 AM   #4
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So should I look at just the press only and not the kit with the powder dispenser and scale? What are the problems with the powder dispenser? I would probably get an electronic scale anyways
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Old February 4, 2011, 10:08 AM   #5
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If you want to buy a different scale (like $54 Dillon Eliminator or RCBS 5-0-5), you can assemble your own kit at Lee Factory Sales (vendor that is not part of Lee Precision). They carry good prices.

I recently put together a Classic Turret setup for a friend. This was the order sheet:

90064 CLASSIC TURRET PRESS $ 84.48
90614 DELUX RIFLE 3 DIE 308 $ 25.98
90429 PRO AUTO DISK $ 33.98
90194 RIFLE CHARGING DIE $ 9.10
90101 PRIMER POCKET CLEANER $ 1.50
90292 DECAPPING DIE/REPALCEMENT PIN IS 90783 $ 7.98
90899 ZIP TRIM $ 16.98
90275 CUTTER W/BALL GRIP $ 4.50
90139 GAGE/HOLDER 308 WIN $ 3.80
90230 AUTO PRIME XR $ 15.89
90198 SET AP SHELLHOLDERS $ 11.68
90006 RESIZING LUBEE $ 2.30
90109 CHAMFER TOOL $ 2.30
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Old February 4, 2011, 10:16 AM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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I also assembled my own "kit" from factory sales. At the time, there was no such thing as a "kit" with the Classic turret. IIRC, the total price ended up being around $50 more than the real "kit" but the difference in the press alone was worth it for me. You should definitely check with Factory Sales. One advantage of buying separate pieces is that you get exactly what you want and nothing you don't.
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Old February 4, 2011, 10:32 AM   #7
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I didn't chase down the kit so I'm not sure if the powder measure offered is the Lee Perfect Powder Measure or the Auto-Disk powder measure.

Either will work. Neither is my choice.

I don't care for the Auto-Disk because it's a fixed chamber measure and you are forced to pick one "close enough" or "good enough" rather than to set the chamber for the powder drop you want.

I don't care for the Perfect Powder Measure because it's make mostly of plastic and doesn't give the same firm "feel" when operating and also when making adjustments.

Both tools will absolutely work, but I prefer to spend more on different products. I've had great luck with the Hornady powder measure and even better luck with the Lyman 55. However... Check the price of the two different Lee measures against either the Hornady or the Lyman (or god forbid, something from RCBS) and look at the difference in the outlay of cash. It's not small.

The Lee Safety Scale is another tool that totally fits the Lee mold. It's so inexpensive that nobody, no reloader on EARTH can logically say they can't afford any scale at their bench. That's what makes it a gem. It costs such low dollars and it absolutely works and it's horribly accurate.

BUT... for those low dollars... it's hard to use, it's hard to read, it doesn't have a large capacity and it's made from aluminum and plastic. It's ingenious and it's got it's place in this world, especially for folks on a shoestring budget. Thank GOD they made & sold this thing for twenty bucks back when I was in high school and had no money. But I do not use mine today because there are better tools. They cost a lot more dough but are worth it.

You will have to find your way here between money spent and your needs and wants. We can offer our experiences, but they will differ greatly from each other.
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Old February 4, 2011, 12:52 PM   #8
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McCoy, Mr. BDS-THR's list is a very good one for your needs. I would exchange the Disc measure for the Perfect for simplicity when developing loads but the disc measure will surely do good work. Paying 4-5 times more for a cast iron measure to optain a certain "feel" is quite costly for no other gain.

IF Lee's reloading equipment was a junky as some people say it would have been impossible for Lee to have started very small in the 60s and grow to become THE dominate volume seller today. I believe Lee knockers fall into one of three groups; mechanical klutzys that really need all steel and iron tools to prevent them from breaking stuff right and left, price and finish snobs that look down on performance while concentrating on cost and looks, and those who read and blindly repeat the comments of the first two groups. None of them are worth paying any attention to.

No matter the posters praising digital scales, forget them, they bring nothing helpful to your bench. Use your own life experience for how long term reliable - or unreliable - cheap electronic gadgets are. Reloading digitals are no more accurate, very little "faster" and not nearly as long lasting as a beam scale. But, don't get Lee's beam scale, it works fine but is PITA to use and the 100 gr. weight range is to limited to allow you to weigh many bullets and cases.

Jedi to you, good luck!
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Old February 4, 2011, 12:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
No matter the posters praising digital scales, forget them, they bring nothing helpful to your bench. Use your own life experience for how long term reliable - or unreliable - cheap electronic gadgets are.
I agree with the "cheap" part on electronic scales but the high end units are wonderful to have. They are a lot quicker... try weighing 5 items of random weight on a mechanical vs a digital.... and less prone to user error.


A $20 scale? No. An RCBS 1500, for example, yes, please and thank you.
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Old February 4, 2011, 04:09 PM   #10
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I've got a $20 electronic scale from Midway USA. I think I paid $25 for it, actually, and normally it's $50.

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.co...eloading-Scale

It comes with a 20 gram calibration weight, and it consistently nails it.

I've only been using it a month, but so far, so good.
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Old February 4, 2011, 04:28 PM   #11
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Stay away from kits, buy individual items, stay away from items with plastic working parts and buy the best you can afford. It will pay off in the long run.
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Old February 4, 2011, 04:28 PM   #12
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The plot thickens a little....I just got a 50$ gift card to Cabelas!
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Old February 4, 2011, 05:54 PM   #13
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Great thread. I'm considering getting the Lee classic turret as well, and after doing quite a bit of reading on this and other forums I reached the same conclusion that the press was ok and the other stuff in the kit was not really what I wanted quality wise. That was confirmed yesterday when I saw a kit at the gun shop.

My question is will a powder measure from another company like RCBS or Dillon work with the the Lee Classic turret?
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Old February 4, 2011, 06:25 PM   #14
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"I agree with the "cheap" part on electronic scales but the high end units are wonderful to have."

Peet, ANY digitial scale selling for less than maybe $600 is cheap throw-away stuff. And even then the scales, all prices, need to be checked and recertified a couple of times a year by a qulified technician with proper tools and test gear to maintain accuracy. NOTHING sold to reloaders is a high end scale nor do we have any reasonalble way to have them serviced in use! (Take a look at the digitals in drug stores and even grocery stores, you will likely see a decal showing when it was last certified, and also ask how much those scales cost.)
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Old February 4, 2011, 06:29 PM   #15
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I figure if I calibrate the scale to the calibrated weight it comes with, and then, after that, when I set the calibrated weight back on it it returns the proper value, it's good.
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Old February 4, 2011, 07:54 PM   #16
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I like the kit by Kempf. Then buy a scale with your cabelas gift card. It's what I would do anyway. I love my classic cast turret.
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Old February 4, 2011, 08:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wncchester
Peet, ANY digitial scale selling for less than maybe $600 is cheap throw-away stuff. And even then the scales, all prices, need to be checked and recertified a couple of times a year by a qulified technician with proper tools and test gear to maintain accuracy.
Well, yes, but us reloaders don't require "governmental" accuracy levels.

I don't dispute what you're saying so much as I dispute the impact it has on reloaders.

I have an RCBS 1500 and a Frankford Arsenal $20 scale.

The major problem with the $20 scale is that it seems to have a fairly high error percentage as weight increases and it is overly sensitive to air currents. For example, it will consistently calibrate on it's 20g check weight but it seems to be designed to be most accurate at around that weight, 300gr. It is not consistent with known weights in the "normal" reloading region of between 5 and 50 grains. Also, if I blow on it, it fluctuates badly.

Now, the RCBS is much different. it also consistently calibrates with it's check weights, which it does at 0, 50 and 100 grams, rather than just the 20 of the cheap scale. However, it also consistently shows correct weights of the several other known weight objects that I keep around. Besides that, it seems entirely unaffected by (reasonable) air currents and/or fluorescent lights.

So long as it does those things, it is good ENOUGH for accurate and safe reloading. It's not the "best" but it's plenty good.

I has a friend once with whom I owned a race car. We were trying to get the engine put together. He kept wanting to buy things like $1000 rods when $700 rods were good enough. The $1000 rods are "better" but they are unnecessary. Same thing with reloading scales.
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Old February 5, 2011, 12:54 AM   #18
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Welcome to the forum and welcome to reloading. Thanks for asking our advice.

To state the matter specifically, the Lee Classic Turret is a newer design than the Lee Deluxe Turret.

The Classic Turret is a 4-hole autoindexing turret press with a cast iron base.

The Lee Deluxe Turret is a cast aluminum base autoindexing turret press that originaly had three die stations, but now comes with 4. There is a conversion kit to convert the 3-hole press to a 4-hole.

No other turret press than Lee's two turrets do auto-indexing.

The Deluxe does not handle spent primers as neatly as the Classic. The Classic can handle longer rifle cartridges than the Deluxe. The Deluxe is cheaper than the Classic and is offered as part of a kit by more retailers. But you will see from my posts cited below, I favor building your own kit.

Do not confuse the Lee Classic Turret Press with the the Lee Classic Cast Press. The Classic Cast is a single stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
I don't care for the Auto-Disk because it's a fixed chamber measure and you are forced to pick one "close enough" or "good enough" rather than to set the chamber for the powder drop you want.
If you buy a few extra disks (ones with cavities slightly smaller than your desired size) you can ream out the chambers to the exact size you want. Or get the adjustable charge bar which substitutes for the disk (but only in the smaller cavity sizes).

Having said that, let me share with you some posts and threads I think you will enjoy. So get a large mug of coffee, tea, hot chocolate, whatever you keep on hand when you read and think and read through these.

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheFiringLine's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST "
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

The "sticky" thread at the top of TheHighRoad.com's reloading forum is good, entitled, "For the New Reloader: Thinking about Reloading; Equipment Basics -- READ THIS FIRST"
http://www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

"Budget Beginning bench you will never outgrow for the novice handloader". This was informed by my recent (July 2010) repopulation of my loading bench. It is what I would have done 35 years ago if I had known then what I know now.
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/2938...andloader.html

Thread entitled "Newby needs help."
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391
My post 11 is entitled "Here's my reloading setup, which I think you might want to model" November 21, 2010)
My post 13 is "10 Advices for the novice handloader" November 21, 2010)

The first draft of my "10 Advices..." is on page 2 of this thread, about halfway down.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

Minimalist minimal approach
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

or if the links do not work, paste these into your browser

thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171

thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=238214

rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html

thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391

rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543

rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332

Good luck. Always wear eye protection, especially when working with primers and don't pinch your fingers in your press. Be safe. Always, all ways.

Lost Sheep
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Old February 5, 2011, 01:16 AM   #19
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Old February 5, 2011, 09:54 AM   #20
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Antoher option to auto charging is shown here. I cut down a funnel and use the Lee Dipper Cups. Works great, I'm showing a set up to reload 45-70.

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Old February 5, 2011, 11:47 AM   #21
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Boy now my head is really spinning! So many different options. I'm trying to take a "k.i.s.s" approach and I don't want to have a ton of $$ involved. I like the idea of using the funnel with the dippers. I have always been looking at single stage presses as well and using a batch production method. I'm not looking to churn out 1000's of rounds a month, rather just a way to replace my shooting ammo and as a hobby
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Old February 5, 2011, 12:07 PM   #22
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnmccoy
I have always been looking at single stage presses as well and using a batch production method. I'm not looking to churn out 1000's of rounds a month, rather just a way to replace my shooting ammo and as a hobby

That's what's so great about the Classic turret... it can operate as a single stage, a manual turret or an automatic turret.

You will hear from people that you can't make rifle ammo that will be as accurate on a turret as you can on a single stage but what they mean is THEORETICALLY you can't... no one has been able to show such. Myself and many others have easily made 1/2 MOA accurate rifle ammo, and better, on Classic turrets.

The classic turret is absolutely the best of all worlds. Its only limitation is super-high production. If you need more than probably 1,000-1,800 rounds a month then you'll probably be looking to upgrade to a progressive. Since you're NOT looking for that, the Classic turret should be perfect.
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Old February 5, 2011, 12:44 PM   #23
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I make really accurate ammo with very low runout on my Lee Classic Turret. I've used it for 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 25-06, 7mm Rem Mag, and 45-70. Oddly enough, I remove the indexing rod and batch load for 25-06 and 221 Fireball. The others are done is auto index mode as shown in the photo.

Making quality ammo is a lot more about paying attention to detail and learning the proper way to use your equipment than it is about press selection. Making large quantities of ammo, especially handgun ammo, is a lot more about press selection.
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Old February 5, 2011, 01:00 PM   #24
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Good dies go a long way too.

Edited to add - I got suckered into the Hornady free bullet offer with their dies and own a few sets of their dies. The Forster 2 die Benchrest set are much better dies, especially the sliding sleeve seater. To Hornady's credit, I like the eliptical expander they offer a lot better than a button-type expander but have found I have to polish it to get maximum benefit. Redding offers an excellet carbide expander ball for their FL size dies that greatly reduces the need to lube a case neck but they are expensive.
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Old February 5, 2011, 05:10 PM   #25
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I would recommend to buy the kit from www.kempfgunshop.com and for the $22 upgrade you will get both LG and SM safety primes and the pro auto disk measure. Add a good beam scale and calipers and you should be around $250 to $275. I have been reloading on the classic turret for five years and think it's a great press.
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