Ran out of scope adjustment on Burris FFII

kpbeddin · January 17, 2009, 03:08 PM

I was just wondering if anyone had seen this before. I have a new Remington 700 on which I mounted Leupold dovetail rings with a Burris Fullfield II 3x9x40. The elevation adjustment will not bring the crosshairs down to center (of the viewed target)even when maxed out. I tried a Nikon scope and there was plenty of elevation adjustment on this same set-up. My gun dealer suggested shimming the rear base. I am trying to determine if the scope is defective or if this may just be an unlucky mismatch between that particular model scope and the gun/ring set-up. Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
Keith

Brian Pfleuger · January 17, 2009, 03:28 PM

Did you remove the rings when you mounted the new scope? I can't imagine anything other than a problem with the scope if the rings weren't removed.

kpbeddin · January 17, 2009, 03:51 PM

No, I did not remove the rings, I just removed the scope and sat the new scope in the rings (while the gun was in the vice) and was able to get plenty of elevation adjustment to the elevation I needed.
Are shims a good idea or should I try to return the scope?
Keith

Chuck Dye · January 17, 2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

The elevation adjustment will not bring the crosshairs down to center even when maxed out.

I'm not entirely sure of the problem here. Modern scope design centers the crosshairs in the field of view regardless of the adjustment used to zero the rifle. If you are complaining of crosshairs not centered in the field of view, I am sure you have a faulty scope and a call to the manufacturer is in order. If you are running out of adjustment before you successfully zero the rifle, there are two possibilities I know of: you are attempting to zero at an extreme range requiring fiddles in the mounting to compensate for the limits of the scope (known issues with known solutions - shims or specialized rings) or there are flaws in either the scope, the mounts, or both and the manufacturers are probably the first, best sources for remedies.

1-800-LEUPOLD

BURRIS: 970-356-1670

Brian Pfleuger · January 17, 2009, 04:38 PM

If the scope appears to sit properly in the rings then it is almost certainly a scope problem, IMO. Return it (and buy a Mueller

)

kpbeddin · January 17, 2009, 07:10 PM

OK, thanks for the replies. Admittedly I am a novice at this since my other riflles are Rugers that come with the mounting rings, but is it possible that using a lower ring would correct the problem. The ones currently mounted are "high" and I noticed that the Leupold chart recommends "low" rings for their 3x9x40 scope on the Remington 700.

Keith

kraigwy · January 17, 2009, 07:28 PM

Do like the man says, shim it. Brownells sells a package of shims pretty reasonable.

HiBC · January 17, 2009, 08:04 PM

On the hi vs lo of the rings,it is not real significant as far as your adjustment problem,however,it might be very important as far as how your rifle fits you,and how well you shoot.

Generally,the limiting factor of how low a scope can be mounted (with a 40mm obj) is about the bolt handle clearing the ocular bell.Generally,the lower you can mount a scope,the better.

The real test is.close your eyes,bring the rifle to your face,and open your eyes.If you must lift your head to get field of view,don't waste time and ammo on those rings.Get lower ones.

Burris is a pretty good company,and they stand behind there stuff,but a defective Burris is not unheard of.

Suppose you have 64 clicks adj travel.back up 32 clicks fom the stop on one end,for W and E.(Or whatever is true with your scope,use 1/2 the travel)

Make a little double vee block setup (wood is fine) that you can spin the scope tube in.put a small target on the wall,and spin the scope.centered in the adj,the crosshairs should not wander much.

Doyle · January 17, 2009, 08:06 PM

Make your own shims. I use 12ga shotgun shells. Take a dremel tool and cut the base off. Then split the brass in half. The two brass halves make excellent shims.

kpbeddin · January 17, 2009, 08:39 PM

Make a little double vee block setup (wood is fine) that you can spin the scope tube in.put a small target on the wall,and spin the scope.centered in the adj,the crosshairs should not wander much.
HiBC,
Is this is a test to verify that the tube is not bent?

HiBC · January 17, 2009, 10:20 PM

There are many unknowns.I cannot say this is a true pass fail on your scope,but if the adjustments are centered,the optics should point in the same direction the tube does.They probably do.If you find as you rotate the tube the crosshairs swing in a large circle,the tube,where the rings fit is not pointing to the same direction as the optics within the tube.I might tell Burris about it.If it is good,that is eliminated.

Are you determining the adjustment with a boresight device,or on the range shooting?

Is this a posi-lock Burris?They make some scopes with a locking feature.

And,just due to tolerances and the way things are,we cannot expect to just assemble the components and have ring saddles co-axial within .001.

I bet when we buy a scope,we expect the optical centers and all the parts inside to align within tolerances of less than.001.(we want , 1/4 in @ 100 yds!)

Scopes don't function properly when they are bent out of shape .Rings misaligned by .003 will affect parts inside a scope fitted to .001.

Maybe the Nikon can tolerate the bind better than the Burris,who knows.

I now consider aligning/lapping rings just part of setting up a scope

kpbeddin · January 17, 2009, 10:56 PM

Are you determining the adjustment with a boresight device,or on the range shooting?
Yes, I am using a boresighting device (at the gun shop). I had noticed the problem when I tried to do a rough bore sight by removing the bolt and adjusting to a fixed point located through the bore. Thinking I was doing something wrong when I ran out of adjustment, I took it to the gun shop. At their suggestion, I took the gun home and fired a few rounds from 25 yds and sure enough it fired about 6 inches low.

Is this a posi-lock Burris?They make some scopes with a locking feature.
This is not a posi-lock Burris.

hoghunting · January 18, 2009, 12:31 AM

Try using the Burris Signature rings with the offset inserts. The inserts will act like shims, but they will keep the scope tube straight. Recenter the crosshairs, and use the right size insert to put the bore and scope on target.

kpbeddin · January 22, 2009, 10:30 PM

Thanks for all the help. I am seriously considering the suggestion to install the Burris signature rings with the inserts. Are Burris dual dovetail rings interchangeable with the Leupold dual dovetail bases?

January 17, 2009, 03:08 PM	#1
kpbeddin Junior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Walhalla SC Posts: 13	Ran out of scope adjustment on Burris FFII I was just wondering if anyone had seen this before. I have a new Remington 700 on which I mounted Leupold dovetail rings with a Burris Fullfield II 3x9x40. The elevation adjustment will not bring the crosshairs down to center (of the viewed target)even when maxed out. I tried a Nikon scope and there was plenty of elevation adjustment on this same set-up. My gun dealer suggested shimming the rear base. I am trying to determine if the scope is defective or if this may just be an unlucky mismatch between that particular model scope and the gun/ring set-up. Any other thoughts? Thanks, Keith Last edited by kpbeddin; January 17, 2009 at 08:31 PM.

January 17, 2009, 03:28 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Did you remove the rings when you mounted the new scope? I can't imagine anything other than a problem with the scope if the rings weren't removed. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 17, 2009, 04:38 PM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	If the scope appears to sit properly in the rings then it is almost certainly a scope problem, IMO. Return it (and buy a Mueller) __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 17, 2009, 07:28 PM	#7
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Do like the man says, shim it. Brownells sells a package of shims pretty reasonable. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

January 17, 2009, 08:04 PM	#8
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	On the hi vs lo of the rings,it is not real significant as far as your adjustment problem,however,it might be very important as far as how your rifle fits you,and how well you shoot. Generally,the limiting factor of how low a scope can be mounted (with a 40mm obj) is about the bolt handle clearing the ocular bell.Generally,the lower you can mount a scope,the better. The real test is.close your eyes,bring the rifle to your face,and open your eyes.If you must lift your head to get field of view,don't waste time and ammo on those rings.Get lower ones. Burris is a pretty good company,and they stand behind there stuff,but a defective Burris is not unheard of. Suppose you have 64 clicks adj travel.back up 32 clicks fom the stop on one end,for W and E.(Or whatever is true with your scope,use 1/2 the travel) Make a little double vee block setup (wood is fine) that you can spin the scope tube in.put a small target on the wall,and spin the scope.centered in the adj,the crosshairs should not wander much. Last edited by HiBC; January 17, 2009 at 08:18 PM.

January 17, 2009, 03:51 PM	#3
kpbeddin Junior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Walhalla SC Posts: 13	No, I did not remove the rings, I just removed the scope and sat the new scope in the rings (while the gun was in the vice) and was able to get plenty of elevation adjustment to the elevation I needed. Are shims a good idea or should I try to return the scope? Keith

January 17, 2009, 07:10 PM	#6
kpbeddin Junior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Walhalla SC Posts: 13	OK, thanks for the replies. Admittedly I am a novice at this since my other riflles are Rugers that come with the mounting rings, but is it possible that using a lower ring would correct the problem. The ones currently mounted are "high" and I noticed that the Leupold chart recommends "low" rings for their 3x9x40 scope on the Remington 700. Keith

January 17, 2009, 08:06 PM	#9
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Make your own shims. I use 12ga shotgun shells. Take a dremel tool and cut the base off. Then split the brass in half. The two brass halves make excellent shims.

January 17, 2009, 08:39 PM	#10
kpbeddin Junior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Walhalla SC Posts: 13	Make a little double vee block setup (wood is fine) that you can spin the scope tube in.put a small target on the wall,and spin the scope.centered in the adj,the crosshairs should not wander much. HiBC, Is this is a test to verify that the tube is not bent?

January 17, 2009, 10:20 PM	#11
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	There are many unknowns.I cannot say this is a true pass fail on your scope,but if the adjustments are centered,the optics should point in the same direction the tube does.They probably do.If you find as you rotate the tube the crosshairs swing in a large circle,the tube,where the rings fit is not pointing to the same direction as the optics within the tube.I might tell Burris about it.If it is good,that is eliminated. Are you determining the adjustment with a boresight device,or on the range shooting? Is this a posi-lock Burris?They make some scopes with a locking feature. And,just due to tolerances and the way things are,we cannot expect to just assemble the components and have ring saddles co-axial within .001. I bet when we buy a scope,we expect the optical centers and all the parts inside to align within tolerances of less than.001.(we want , 1/4 in @ 100 yds!) Scopes don't function properly when they are bent out of shape .Rings misaligned by .003 will affect parts inside a scope fitted to .001. Maybe the Nikon can tolerate the bind better than the Burris,who knows. I now consider aligning/lapping rings just part of setting up a scope

January 17, 2009, 10:56 PM	#12
kpbeddin Junior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Walhalla SC Posts: 13	Are you determining the adjustment with a boresight device,or on the range shooting? Yes, I am using a boresighting device (at the gun shop). I had noticed the problem when I tried to do a rough bore sight by removing the bolt and adjusting to a fixed point located through the bore. Thinking I was doing something wrong when I ran out of adjustment, I took it to the gun shop. At their suggestion, I took the gun home and fired a few rounds from 25 yds and sure enough it fired about 6 inches low. Is this a posi-lock Burris?They make some scopes with a locking feature. This is not a posi-lock Burris.

January 18, 2009, 12:31 AM	#13
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	Try using the Burris Signature rings with the offset inserts. The inserts will act like shims, but they will keep the scope tube straight. Recenter the crosshairs, and use the right size insert to put the bore and scope on target.

January 22, 2009, 10:30 PM	#14
kpbeddin Junior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Walhalla SC Posts: 13	Thanks for all the help. I am seriously considering the suggestion to install the Burris signature rings with the inserts. Are Burris dual dovetail rings interchangeable with the Leupold dual dovetail bases?