New York's New Law RE Travel

Vermonter · January 16, 2013, 08:31 PM

How will this change traveling by car through NYS with firearms if at all. I do a lot of driving from VT to PA and NY is obviously a big part of my route. Opinions anyone. I could not find anything in the new legislation specific to travel.

Regards, Vermonter

wayneinFL · January 16, 2013, 08:49 PM

It really should be irrelevant with McClure-Volkmer.

Vermonter · January 16, 2013, 11:00 PM

Ootherwise i gots some new routes to learn

Glenn E. Meyer · January 16, 2013, 11:07 PM

That's an interesting question - I wouldn't trust local law to not bust you with an evil mag or gun. I don't know if the Fed. law overrides state guns on type of gun.

Anybody actually know?

Willie Sutton · January 16, 2013, 11:14 PM

^^ Well, you can legally carry NFA stuff thru non-NFA allowed states, so...

Willie

.

JWT · January 16, 2013, 11:37 PM

I would avoid travelling through New York, and especially NYC with a firearm. Just plain would not trust the authorities.

war_elephant · January 16, 2013, 11:52 PM

The FOPA act is "supposed" to protect you as long as it is legal where you start and legal where you finish, but if you make any stops... therein lies the rub. NY may consider a refueling stop an "interruption" in your journey and then charge you anyway. Remember that the federal judge for the NY/NJ area, Judge Walls, stated that the 2nd Amendment is not a right but a privelidge. Yes this is being appealed, and there is conflicting case law but... for the time being, do what I do when I travel to Maine, I refuel just before I enter NY, and dont stop again until Mass. This way there is no interruption to my journey in NY or CT.
That being said, the other issue I see and wonder about is the LEOSA act and the NY law's impact on Retired/Active out of state LEOS who travel through NY and may be carrying a firearm with larger than a 7 round mag such as a Glock duty weapon with a 10 round mag? Would that LEO be arrested for having a "high capacity magazine" in spite of LEOSA. LEOSA covers carrying the weapon, the ammo but not the Magazine. This from several attorneys on the subject. Whole new can of worms there.

Hopefully the NY law will be tossed out on its face.

FrankenMauser · January 17, 2013, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Yes this is being appealed, and there is conflicting case law but... for the time being, do what I do when I travel to Maine, I refuel just before I enter NY, and dont stop again until Mass. This way there is no interruption to my journey in NY or CT.

Yea....
That isn't really possible for many vehicles, if traveling on I-90 or I-86.
A straight shot down I-90, alone, will clock more than 385 miles. Running 86/90 can exceed 425 miles. Bringing anything else into the mix (like I-87) just adds even more mileage.

It shouldn't be necessary to completely re-route your trip, to avoid most of a "united" state.

Having lived in NY, I have to agree that it's best to avoid the place, though. While I was there, local police agencies were targeting travelers at airports - such as those that were unfortunate enough to be stranded due to cancelled or delayed flights - if they had luggage that looked like gun cases, or they appeared to have hunting gear. If the person left the airport terminal (to go to an airline-provided hotel, for example), they would be detained and searched. To the best of my knowledge, none of the charges were successfully fought. NY just turns its back on Federal law, and prosecutes as they please.

alex0535 · January 17, 2013, 01:46 AM

Repeat after me: "I do not consent to searches"

If they have no reason to search you, and you do not let them search you they won't search you because they can't. If they do decide to start tearing through your car and belongings after you tell them they can not, its about time to find yourself some legal counsel because they are violating your rights.

New york might have some sort of civil right stomping loophole, I know they like to stop people at random on the street, and search them any time the police want in New York, not sure how this translates to driving a car.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 17, 2013, 03:00 AM

Quote:

That's an interesting question - I wouldn't trust local law to not bust you with an evil mag or gun. I don't know if the Fed. law overrides state guns on type of gun.

It does. The question is whether or not NY LEOs choose to play by the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOPA

18 USC §926A:

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:
Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

"Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof ..." seems pretty clear to me.

Vermonter · January 17, 2013, 11:29 AM

That speaks to it pretty well. I don't suppose you know where I could download a copy of FOPA to keep in the vehicle?

Regards, Vermonter.

musher · January 17, 2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

I refuel just before I enter NY, and dont stop again until Mass. This way there is no interruption to my journey in NY or CT

...as long as there are no accidents, breakdowns, road closures, weather issues, personal emergencies....

Maybe it's just me, but it seems crazy that the only thing that potentially separates a person from completely legal behavior and a felony prosecution are events that are beyond the control of the individual.

"Well sir, you were a perfectly law abiding citizen until that rig of yours threw a rod. Now yer off to the big house."

JimDandy · January 17, 2013, 12:02 PM

Throwing a rod could be arguably in your control for not maintaining your vehicle. The arguement you REALLY want is "Well sir, you were perfectly legal until that drunk driver clipped you...."

**Aguila Blanca** · January 17, 2013, 12:21 PM

Vermonter, I had a link but it no longer works. Just enter 18 USC 926A into your search engine and it'll come up.

The FOPA does NOT say you cannot make any stops. I don't know where people get this idea. Suppose I set out to drive from Maine to California. I have no idea how far that is (3,000 miles? 3,500 miles? More?), but it's for darned sure farther than anyone can drive non-stop with no food, fuel, potty stops or sleep. Am I to believe that if I stop to pee, eat supper, and grab forty winks so that I won't be a zombie behind the wheel that the FOPA will NOT cover me for that journey?

Remember, the only arrests (that I know of) for this have been by the NY/NJ Port Authority Police, and they have not been prosecuted.

terzmo · January 17, 2013, 01:24 PM

I would assume,if You are legal in Your home state and travel through another, carry proof of ownership,documentation that makes you legal in your state, have the transported weopon in a case,unloaded and in the trunk or storage compartment,locked preferred. Ammunition separate and away from weopon. A good reason to be transporting it also.

NEVER leave the vehicle unattended with a weopon in it was the advice of the niagara county pistol permit office.

johnwilliamson062 · January 17, 2013, 02:26 PM

Aguila, case law says the passage must not be "interrupted."
I believe in California that has been interpreted as no overnight stops.

It has been pretty well accepted that if you are doing something like touring the US and spend three days in Disneyland, you are not covered.

Even if the law does cover you, if the local LEOs are thugs and the local and state courts back them up, you may spend a decade waiting for it to get to the Supreme Court to be overturned and then you have to worry about which 2A rights organization picked up your case.

Patsy4fingers · January 17, 2013, 02:38 PM

Wasnt legal before this law came to be and is no different now.

Vermonter · January 17, 2013, 03:20 PM

You are very very wrong.

Yankee Traveler · January 17, 2013, 05:26 PM

I beleive Patsy is right Vermonter.

I beleive (and will Google) that NY law says that the only way an out of state person can transport is if the particular firarm is to be used at a sporting event in NY and they are traveling to or from that event. No exceptions.

Yankee Traveler · January 17, 2013, 05:29 PM

Particular to hand guns...

New York prohibits the transportation of handguns except by a resident with a license to carry.

A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a separate locked container.

Nonresident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a fully opaque container.

New York State has strict laws governing illegal possession of handguns which can result in a possible seven year jail sentence for offenders.

A special caution: New York law presumes that an individual stopped in possession of five or more handguns, without a state permit, possesses the handguns for illegal sale, thus subjecting this person to an increased sentence.

New York is the only state in the Union which prohibits the transportation of handguns without a license. Law-abiding citizens should therefore be particularly careful since they face severe consequences should they inadvertently violate the state's myriad, technical, anti-gun provisions.

JimDandy · January 17, 2013, 05:44 PM

Federal law still protects passing through given the correct proceedures, in theory, but I'd let someone else prove it.

January 16, 2013, 08:31 PM	#1
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 962	New York's New Law RE Travel How will this change traveling by car through NYS with firearms if at all. I do a lot of driving from VT to PA and NY is obviously a big part of my route. Opinions anyone. I could not find anything in the new legislation specific to travel. Regards, Vermonter Last edited by Vermonter; January 16, 2013 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Clarify Title

January 16, 2013, 11:00 PM	#3
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 962	hope so Ootherwise i gots some new routes to learn

January 16, 2013, 11:07 PM	#4
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	That's an interesting question - I wouldn't trust local law to not bust you with an evil mag or gun. I don't know if the Fed. law overrides state guns on type of gun. Anybody actually know? __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 16, 2013, 11:52 PM	#7
war_elephant Member Join Date: June 29, 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 70	The FOPA act is "supposed" to protect you as long as it is legal where you start and legal where you finish, but if you make any stops... therein lies the rub. NY may consider a refueling stop an "interruption" in your journey and then charge you anyway. Remember that the federal judge for the NY/NJ area, Judge Walls, stated that the 2nd Amendment is not a right but a privelidge. Yes this is being appealed, and there is conflicting case law but... for the time being, do what I do when I travel to Maine, I refuel just before I enter NY, and dont stop again until Mass. This way there is no interruption to my journey in NY or CT. That being said, the other issue I see and wonder about is the LEOSA act and the NY law's impact on Retired/Active out of state LEOS who travel through NY and may be carrying a firearm with larger than a 7 round mag such as a Glock duty weapon with a 10 round mag? Would that LEO be arrested for having a "high capacity magazine" in spite of LEOSA. LEOSA covers carrying the weapon, the ammo but not the Magazine. This from several attorneys on the subject. Whole new can of worms there. Hopefully the NY law will be tossed out on its face. __________________ Marine, Retired LEO, Firearms Instructor, Life Member NRA Tea Party Member, and general all around trouble maker.

January 17, 2013, 11:29 AM	#11
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 962	Aguila That speaks to it pretty well. I don't suppose you know where I could download a copy of FOPA to keep in the vehicle? Regards, Vermonter.

January 16, 2013, 08:49 PM	#2
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	It really should be irrelevant with McClure-Volkmer.

January 16, 2013, 11:14 PM	#5
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^ Well, you can legally carry NFA stuff thru non-NFA allowed states, so... Willie .

January 16, 2013, 11:37 PM	#6
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	I would avoid travelling through New York, and especially NYC with a firearm. Just plain would not trust the authorities.

January 17, 2013, 01:46 AM	#9
alex0535 Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 908	Repeat after me: "I do not consent to searches" If they have no reason to search you, and you do not let them search you they won't search you because they can't. If they do decide to start tearing through your car and belongings after you tell them they can not, its about time to find yourself some legal counsel because they are violating your rights. New york might have some sort of civil right stomping loophole, I know they like to stop people at random on the street, and search them any time the police want in New York, not sure how this translates to driving a car.

January 17, 2013, 12:02 PM	#13
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Throwing a rod could be arguably in your control for not maintaining your vehicle. The arguement you REALLY want is "Well sir, you were perfectly legal until that drunk driver clipped you...."

January 17, 2013, 12:21 PM	#14
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	Vermonter, I had a link but it no longer works. Just enter 18 USC 926A into your search engine and it'll come up. The FOPA does NOT say you cannot make any stops. I don't know where people get this idea. Suppose I set out to drive from Maine to California. I have no idea how far that is (3,000 miles? 3,500 miles? More?), but it's for darned sure farther than anyone can drive non-stop with no food, fuel, potty stops or sleep. Am I to believe that if I stop to pee, eat supper, and grab forty winks so that I won't be a zombie behind the wheel that the FOPA will NOT cover me for that journey? Remember, the only arrests (that I know of) for this have been by the NY/NJ Port Authority Police, and they have not been prosecuted.

January 17, 2013, 01:24 PM	#15
terzmo Member Join Date: December 16, 2012 Posts: 97	I would assume,if You are legal in Your home state and travel through another, carry proof of ownership,documentation that makes you legal in your state, have the transported weopon in a case,unloaded and in the trunk or storage compartment,locked preferred. Ammunition separate and away from weopon. A good reason to be transporting it also. NEVER leave the vehicle unattended with a weopon in it was the advice of the niagara county pistol permit office.

January 17, 2013, 02:26 PM	#16
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Aguila, case law says the passage must not be "interrupted." I believe in California that has been interpreted as no overnight stops. It has been pretty well accepted that if you are doing something like touring the US and spend three days in Disneyland, you are not covered. Even if the law does cover you, if the local LEOs are thugs and the local and state courts back them up, you may spend a decade waiting for it to get to the Supreme Court to be overturned and then you have to worry about which 2A rights organization picked up your case.

January 17, 2013, 02:38 PM	#17
Patsy4fingers Member Join Date: March 22, 2005 Location: NY Posts: 18	Travel through NY Wasnt legal before this law came to be and is no different now.

January 17, 2013, 03:20 PM	#18
Vermonter Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 962	Patsy You are very very wrong.

January 17, 2013, 05:26 PM	#19
Yankee Traveler Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2008 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 265	I beleive Patsy is right Vermonter. I beleive (and will Google) that NY law says that the only way an out of state person can transport is if the particular firarm is to be used at a sporting event in NY and they are traveling to or from that event. No exceptions.

January 17, 2013, 05:29 PM	#20
Yankee Traveler Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2008 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 265	Particular to hand guns... New York prohibits the transportation of handguns except by a resident with a license to carry. A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a separate locked container. Nonresident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a fully opaque container. New York State has strict laws governing illegal possession of handguns which can result in a possible seven year jail sentence for offenders. A special caution: New York law presumes that an individual stopped in possession of five or more handguns, without a state permit, possesses the handguns for illegal sale, thus subjecting this person to an increased sentence. New York is the only state in the Union which prohibits the transportation of handguns without a license. Law-abiding citizens should therefore be particularly careful since they face severe consequences should they inadvertently violate the state's myriad, technical, anti-gun provisions.

January 17, 2013, 05:44 PM	#21
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Federal law still protects passing through given the correct proceedures, in theory, but I'd let someone else prove it.

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