New type of hollow point bullet

[They1]

Hi all, have a question;

I've invented a new type of hollow point bullet, and I'd like to 1., share, and 2.,get some feedback.
After much reading, I can see there are some knowledgable folks here.

My question is where do I post this? I don't really see a thread for ammunition except for reloaders.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

[QBall45]

What size & weight?
Projectial only? Rather than loaded ammo?

Where's the pic's?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I would go ahead and post it right here in the reloading forum....especially if it is just the bullet.

[They1]

Thanks for responding.

The bullet is a new class of Hollow Point. the innovative part is that I've incorporated small 'ports' or 'vents' at the base of the cavity.

this allows the bullet to vent the otherwise trapped air in the cavity, making expansion more efficient over a wider range of conditions.

to date, testing has been promising, and we're setting up independent testing from two different sources to verify our results.

I have a website: www.hypercavbullets.com with additional details.

Here's a pic:



I'll look forward to your input/questions.

[sserdlihc]

IMHO it doesn't appear to expand nearly as much as a Golden Saber. Just by the pic you posted. I suppose I will need to see some test results to make my final judgement.

Post testing results as soon as you can!

[Christchild]

I too, would like to see a little more expansion, but expansion will vary with different "test media", depending on the media's material and density.

Very fine idea, however. I like the ports! Definitely makes sense to me.

[They1]

The round in the picture is a Speer Gold Dot .38+P fired from a 2"revolver. Ballistic medium was a wax-base, approx. 2X density of standard ballistic gel.
Penetration was 101/2"

A couple of notes;

This modification (HC), can be applied to literally ALL calibers, ALL brands, both handgun and rifle.

The other is if you look closely at the fired round, you'll notice the petals are extended outward, rather than curling back. that would translate to a wider permanent cavity. We got the same results time and time again.

The same stock 'control' round, opened and folded back almost touching the bullet body.

[mapsjanhere]

If your theory is that the compressibility of the air trapped in the hollow point is delaying your expansion, why not fill the cavity with an incompressible solid like polyethylene? That way you don't even have to wait for the cavity to fill with tissue but the expansion starts the instant you contact a solid barrier.

[Christchild]

I agree with the petals remaining more "outward" from the shank, as opposed to curled back... I've got my own idea for the "Nose Cavity Patterning" to enhance exactly that.

So are You going to be marketing the ported bullets, themselves (for Handloaders), loaded ammunition only (with the ported bullets) or the system/tool to port the bullets?

[teeroux]

Wouldn't the same air vent holes become hydraulic vent holes the moment the bullet penetrated something fleshy or liquid? Rendering it less effective than one without holes?

[They1]

"If your theory is that the compressibility of the air trapped in the hollow point is delaying your expansion, why not fill the cavity with an incompressible solid like polyethylene? That way you don't even have to wait for the cavity to fill with tissue but the expansion starts the instant you contact a solid barrier."

If I understand...what you're describing would be kind of difficult. Having a medium that's incompressible, yet flexible to allow deforming when acting on a force of flexible tissue.

Of course, I'm not an expert in specific resins...

[They1]

"I agree with the petals remaining more "outward" from the shank, as opposed to curled back... I've got my own idea for the "Nose Cavity Patterning" to enhance exactly that.

So are You going to be marketing the ported bullets, themselves (for Handloaders), loaded ammunition only (with the ported bullets) or the system/tool to port the bullets?"

Yeah, to me, the more ragged square area, the more tissue damage...more "bang for your buck".

If you have a design for an improved design, you should do a patent search and find out if its been done. If not, go for it!

Actually, i don't plan on marketing this myself, rather to License the technology to an existin manufacturer. i would think that HC-class ammo would become available in every form on the market today.

[They1]

"Wouldn't the same air vent holes become hydraulic vent holes the moment the bullet penetrated something fleshy or liquid? Rendering it less effective than one without holes?"

It's intended, based on the 90 degree angle, that resistance during transition from air-to-tissue, that the holes are plugged, allowing the cavity to pressurize.

Any tissue-bleed into the ports would be irrelevant.
Remember, after the cavity is filled, the ports 'job' is done. The ports only exist for that first inch of penetration.

[Shane Tuttle]

I'm not buying that air being trapped during impact would really cause a decrease in performance in expansion. In my limited search, I haven't seen any credible evidence otherwise.

[They1]

"I'm not buying that air being trapped during impact would really cause a decrease in performance in expansion. In my limited search, I haven't seen any credible evidence otherwise."

Noted...the reason for the limited search results, are that there has been very little attention paid to this. That's why I was able to patent this, after searching patents internationally, back to 1922.

However, physics don't lie, and the 'laws' of same cannot be evaded.

"certain things MUST do certain things, under certain conditions".

[Christchild]

If you have a design for an improved design, you should do a patent search and find out if its been done. If not, go for it!

It's nothing major. Similar to the way Barnes is patterning the nose cavities in the TSX and TTSX, just enhanced/modified a bit.....

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I really like your creativity and how you are thinking. BUT, I would like to see a bullet without the vent holes and a bullet with the vent holes shot into the same media at the same velocity at the same distance. Do 10 of each and then post the results with pictures. I am interested. Thanks!

[They1]

"I really like your creativity and how you are thinking. BUT, I would like to see a bullet without the vent holes and a bullet with the vent holes shot into the same media at the same velocity at the same distance. Do 10 of each and then post the results with pictures. I am interested. Thanks!"

Thank you. I appreciate that.

As far as testing; We're setting up independent testing with Brassfetcher, and with DocGKR in the near future. Doc will be doing a full FBI protocol series.

[amathis]

As Coyotehunter said, I'd love to see comparison pics. You could be on to something. If you ever send out samples for testing PM me.

[They1]

Go to my website, at the bottom is a "wishlist". I'll get some out as soon as I can.

[QBall45]

I'm with Tuttle8 on this one.

Just give me any standard HP handgun ammo so can go load my mags. I done care if that's HydraShocks, Gold Dot's, Gloden Sabers, Ranger, Win SXT, or run o the mill plain jane JHP's. They are all better than nothing. And none as good as a .308.

Really, I'm seriously thinking about running factory hardball in my 45 this winter. Penetration is better than hp's in heavy clothing.

Just my random thoughts after reading more on this thread.

[They1]

"Just give me any standard HP handgun ammo so can go load my mags. I done care if that's HydraShocks, Gold Dot's, Gloden Sabers, Ranger, Win SXT, or run o the mill plain jane JHP's. They are all better than nothing. And none as good as a .308.

Really, I'm seriously thinking about running factory hardball in my 45 this winter. Penetration is better than hp's in heavy clothing.

Just my random thoughts after reading more on this thread."

A chain saw is better than a butter knife for cutting trees...I can't really argue with that logic...

[B. Lahey]

Dude, your modification makes those gold dots perform terribly. You somehow managed to decrease both penetration and expansion.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De....38spl/.357mag



Hollowpoints rely on pressure building up in the hollowpoint, and you are venting that pressure. You took a good projectile and made it a really bad choice for anything.

[They1]

"Dude, your modification makes those gold dots perform terribly. You somehow managed to decrease both penetration and expansion.

Hollowpoints rely on pressure building up in the hollowpoint, and you are venting that pressure. You took a good projectile and made it a really bad choice for anything."

Uh, the expansion is from HYDRAULIC pressure...not PNEUMATIC pressure.

If you comment was even marginally correct, all HP ammo would expand right out of the muzzle.

[B. Lahey]

Your vents are venting both types of pressure, chief. Holes tend to do that.

What makes you think that liquid will not find its way through those holes just as well as air will?

Your modifications have made the projectiles perform more poorly than the unmodified gold dots. Use your eyeballs.