Gun Control Advocates Switch Strategy

[Bartholomew Roberts]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1E617Q

This story details how gun control advocates are now training and supporting candidates for small, local offices in hopes of creating a base of candidates that can eventually play at the varsity levels. This is also an excellent reminder of why a strong pro-2A presence at the local level is important. While your city councilmember may not be able to do much to impact your Second Amendment rights in many states, they may use that office as a launch platform to higher office.

A less highlighted part of the story discusses education programs in school designed to promote awareness of mental health issues - a laudable goal that even pro-2A people can agree on; yet in the same paragraph the gun control person talks about changing the cultural behavior that allows guns in society.

[zukiphile]

That's a solid strategy. By the time the issue of federal regulation becomes prominent, it's result is largely a result of the culture. A deep field of talent to carry that culture into law seals the victory.

That cultural victory is a difficult and long fight though.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

That's one of the advantages of RKBA, is it already has a built-in non-political culture. You just have to engage it politically. It will be difficult to build a culture from scratch around a political cause that is solely against something. It will be almost impossible if RKBA advocates get involved in supporting and spreading RKBA culture in their local communities.

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1E617Q

This story details how gun control advocates are now training and supporting candidates for small, local offices in hopes of creating a base of candidates that can eventually play at the varsity levels. This is also an excellent reminder of why a strong pro-2A presence at the local level is important. While your city councilmember may not be able to do much to impact your Second Amendment rights in many states, they may use that office as a launch platform to higher office.

A less highlighted part of the story discusses education programs in school designed to promote awareness of mental health issues - a laudable goal that even pro-2A people can agree on; yet in the same paragraph the gun control person talks about changing the cultural behavior that allows guns in society.

I think they will have a problem of creating grassroots anti-gun politicians in areas which aren't already anti-gun. There is already a near monopoly of anti-gun stuff coming out of the government, Hollywood, media and education establishments. And despite all that, a lot of people still like their guns

[zukiphile]

That's one of the advantages of RKBA, is it already has a built-in non-political culture. You just have to engage it politically. It will be difficult to build a culture from scratch around a political cause that is solely against something. It will be almost impossible if RKBA advocates get involved in supporting and spreading RKBA culture in their local communities.

Bart, I do not share your optimism.

As the culture shifts from rural to urban, the number of people who think pidgeons and squirrels are "nature" and would see not having a cell phone as a personal crisis grows. They might eat meat, but if you show them film of a slaughterhouse, the result will be tears and a quasi-moral outrage prior generations saves for slavery and the holocaust.

This population isn't just pampered, but is isolated from experiences that were routine a century ago. (My mother, born during WWII, would help with dinner by going outside, picking a chicken and breaking its neck). I believe it may be easy to convince that population that possession of a firearm, a thing they've never needed or wanted, should be eliminated as an antique social flaw.

I would be delighted to be wrong on this.

[ATN082268]

Originally Posted by zukiphile

Bart, I do not share your optimism.

As the culture shifts from rural to urban, the number of people who think pidgeons and squirrels are "nature" and would see not having a cell phone as a personal crisis grows. They might eat meat, but if you show them film of a slaughterhouse, the result will be tears and a quasi-moral outrage prior generations saves for slavery and the holocaust.

This population isn't just pampered, but is isolated from experiences that were routine a century ago. I believe it may be easy to convince that population that possession of a firearm, a thing they've never needed or wanted, should be eliminated as an antique social flaw.

I would be delighted to be wrong on this.

Part of the relative lack of guns, given the population in urban centers, is the frequently restrictive anti-gun laws already in place which makes it difficult to own and use a firearm. It's a vicious cycle.

[zukiphile]

Part of the relative lack of guns, given the population in urban centers, is the frequently restrictive anti-gun laws already in place which makes it difficult to own and use a firearm. It's a vicious cycle.

Yes, but only partly. In the city, it takes resources and dedication to introduce your children to firearms or even find somewhere to shoot. I live in a suburb and drive at least an hour to find a range at which I can shoot. We are over-run by deer, but when culling is announced, the lovely mothers who drive SUVs so they can manage the hundred foot journey through an inch of snow to get to the street go to council meetings to protest killing any deer.

The best part of a country house imho is the ability to grab a box of 22lr and a rifle walk out to the edge of a field and shoot. Fewer people have that now.

[SIGSHR]

With the "disintegration of family life", fatherless becoming the norm, fewer and fewer kids receive exposure to firearms at home, westerns are out of fashion, schools are just daycare centers and more indoctrination centers than places of learning. On the local level zoning laws, "complaints" from neighbors can be used to either shut down existing ranges or keep them from opening.

[5whiskey]

As the culture shifts from rural to urban, the number of people who think pidgeons and squirrels are "nature" and would see not having a cell phone as a personal crisis grows. They might eat meat, but if you show them film of a slaughterhouse, the result will be tears and a quasi-moral outrage prior generations saves for slavery and the holocaust.

This population isn't just pampered, but is isolated from experiences that were routine a century ago. (My mother, born during WWII, would help with dinner by going outside, picking a chicken and breaking its neck). I believe it may be easy to convince that population that possession of a firearm, a thing they've never needed or wanted, should be eliminated as an antique social flaw.

I would be delighted to be wrong on this.

I, too, would be delighted for you to be wrong... but you're not. Unfortunately we humans are going to "advance" ourselves and "progress" to a point that we will be capable of doing nothing unless it has a digital aspect. I wanted to enact a "no cell phone" rule when my daughter started hunting. It sincerely was not realistic. It was a minor struggle holding out until she was 13 to get her a cell phone. But yeah, I mentioned the no cell phone thing and the response is "I'll be bored." She honestly wasn't sure about going at that point... so I told her she could bring it but she had to promise to put it down at least some and enjoy nature.

I should be happy she does like to hunt and fish... I know for a fact that only a couple of her friends are exposed to that. But the point remains. Society is changing, and I do feel that gun ownership may be easily sold as the "antique social flaw" you describe.

[zukiphile]

I wanted to enact a "no cell phone" rule when my daughter started hunting. It sincerely was not realistic.

We were all a lot tougher before we had daughters.

I should be happy she does like to hunt and fish... I know for a fact that only a couple of her friends are exposed to that.

You shouldn't be happy -- you should be thrilled. I took my 10 year old shopping for a rifle; she like the shopping part, and I bought her a Ruger American Rimfire with the short stock. She came to the range with me a few times. I've stopped inviting her because she only does it to humor me.

My children stay indoors in the summer because it's too hot, and in the winter because it's too cold, and in the spring and fall because they are studying or involved in their damned devices.

If your daughter likes hunting and fishing and still does it with you, you've something lots of us don't.

[5whiskey]

If your daughter likes hunting and fishing and still does it with you, you've something lots of us don't.

You are correct. I have two other daughters. The jury is still out on the youngest. My middle daughter could care less about anything but a device, although occasionally I can convince her to fish with us.

[zukiphile]

Society is changing, and I do feel that gun ownership may be easily sold as the "antique social flaw" you describe.

Just to be clear, my observation about social change is not self laudatory. I was raised in the city and have isolated myself from any kind of real danger, toil or serious inconvenience. I had to learn to ride a horse as a lad and disliked it. I had no use for being outside at all until I began shooting.

I come to 2d Am. issues from a political and legal angle rather than a cultural one. My observations are about people with whom I share lots of the softness and isolation I referenced.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I disagree. Just different approaches to RKBA culture... the old hunting and cowboy movie approach has been replaced with Call of Duty video games and modern indoor mega-ranges. One of the growth issues behind the ammo shortages of the last ten years is that recreational/self defense shooters shoot a lot more ammo than hunters do.

I think urban areas are going to be one of the prime sources of growth for the Second Amendment. After all, you can only sell so many firearms to people who already have five handguns, five shotguns and six rifles.

[LogicMan]

The battle for the RKBA is a constant fight. It's a funny analogy, but gun rights proponents are like the body's immune system and the gun control proponents are like the different microorganisms constantly entering and being fought. It requires constant vigilance.

One thing that I think that we gun rights proponents do have at our side now as a very useful tool that we didn't used to is the Internet. Nowadays, people on the fence about such issues can become a lot better informed than they could in the pre-Internet days, when the media could lie and distort as much as they wanted without any countering.

[Tom Servo]

So, a gun-control group built on a fake narrative from a woman who uses a fake name is going to run some of their employees for office, including Jennifer Longdon, who tells stories about fake assaults by gun rights advocates.

Good luck with that.

While I'm not suggesting we dismiss it out of hand, gun control isn't the grassroots issue they claim it is. The whole "movement" Watts (or Troughton, or Marmion, or whatever name she's using lately) has organized is a top-down initiative funded by Michael Bloomberg, the Joyce Foundation, and other wealthy donors. They haven't suddenly seized some nationwide zeitgeist; they're just good at making noise and getting themselves in front of cameras.

Getting elected is something very different. I'm not aware of a politician ever being elected because of gun control.

(They'll quote Carolyn McCarthy as an example, but she won in New York in 1996 by stoking resentment at unpopular Republican Dan Frisa's wholehearted and general support of the Gingrich agenda, then retconned the narrative to say it was because he was against gun control.)

There are all sorts of issues that drive people to the polls, but gun control really isn't one of them.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Sadly, McCarthy also demonstrates the power of the incumbent. She was perhaps the single most incompetent Congressperson during her time in Congress. I think she got exactly one of her bills passed (NICS Improvement Act) and that was only with NRA assistance. She was otherwise singularly unimpressive in advancing her stated agenda. Yet, they still kept sending her back.

[Tom Servo]

She was otherwise singularly unimpressive in advancing her stated agenda.

Same thing with Feinstein and Schumer. They're not winning elections because of their support for gun control, but they'll claim they are when it's convenient.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

This story details how gun control advocates are now training and supporting candidates for small, local offices in hopes of creating a base of candidates that can eventually play at the varsity levels. This is also an excellent reminder of why a strong pro-2A presence at the local level is important.

This is also a good reason to get behind the proposed national reciprocity act. It would override a lot of this local nonsense.

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)) and subject only to the requirements of this section, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State that

[doofus47]

I guess this is an example of "If you want something to get done, you have to do it yourself.."