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Old February 16, 2021, 01:27 PM   #26
ghbucky
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One very disturbing aspect of FB is the reliance on it by public entities for emergency communication.

I was trying to track a wildfire close to a friend of mine a couple of years ago and the FD was posting updates to FB, and FB would not let me see those updates without an account.

If that doesn't call for regulation, I don't know what does.
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Old February 16, 2021, 05:40 PM   #27
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If that doesn't call for regulation, I don't know what does.
Ok, regulation of whom?

A private company that doesn't let you use their services without an account??

Or the FD who "relies" on posting on a private company's website to inform the public because "everybody is on it.."??
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Old February 16, 2021, 08:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghbucky
One very disturbing aspect of FB is the reliance on it by public entities for emergency communication. I was trying to track a wildfire close to a friend of mine a couple of years ago and the FD was posting updates to FB, and FB would not let me see those updates without an account.

If that doesn't call for regulation, I don't know what does.
A private company that doesn't let you use their services without an account??
We're on dangerous ground, in uncharted waters (to coin a phrase), akin to a drug dealer giving out freebies until everyone (including public services ) is irrevocably hooked

...then he starts to squeeeeeeeze.
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Old February 16, 2021, 09:53 PM   #29
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It has crossed the boundary into monopoly of public communications and needs to be regulated as such. Ma Bell was broken up, private utility companies are tightly regulated.

FB is not different. It needs to be regulated.
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Old February 16, 2021, 10:43 PM   #30
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Not sure why, but I find the whole "government regulation is good and we need more of it" argument to be so hilariously ironic.
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Old February 17, 2021, 12:20 AM   #31
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I would remind everyone that Facebook is a private entity, and not the US government, so various "First Amendment" protections of free speech DO NOT APPLY.
I completely agree. Any lawsuit against any of the big tech companies, like Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc will likely have to come from one of two ways (perhaps both). First, there may be issues with monopoly/collusion regarding actions of Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Second, there also may be issues with section 230 and whether Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc are publishers or platforms regarding their legal protections.
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Old February 17, 2021, 01:52 AM   #32
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It has crossed the boundary into monopoly of public communications and needs to be regulated as such. Ma Bell was broken up, private utility companies are tightly regulated.
I realize its your opinion, but you'll have to do some explaining to convince me that Facebook has a monopoly/is a monopoly of public communications.

I think it is a much different situation than Ma Bell, or, for that matter Standard Oil.

I don't see where anyone is forced to use Facebook. The fact that they CHOOSE, to because of ease, or the features provided is a choice.

Convince me otherwise, if you can..
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Old February 17, 2021, 07:40 AM   #33
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One very disturbing aspect of FB is the reliance on it by public entities for emergency communication.

I was trying to track a wildfire close to a friend of mine a couple of years ago and the FD was posting updates to FB, and FB would not let me see those updates without an account.

If that doesn't call for regulation, I don't know what does.
So we need to regulate a service that you don't think is important enough to sign up for?

The FD was managing a crisis, and they opted for the cheapest and fastest way to communicate to the public. And they certainly had some type of government website they could have used. I suspect they didn't have the time or resources to use their own platform effectively. That's hardly a ringing endorsement of more government control over the private sector.
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Old February 17, 2021, 08:59 AM   #34
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Aguila- my ISP provides a static IP address. I am not speaking theoretically, I used to host my own content from a laptop server I set up in my basement office. In my case, I was hosting 3D gaming content.

Practically- I am telling you I really did it. To learn how to run the hosting software took me a couple of days to figure out and I am not a computer science major.

Your post is like saying one can’t reload their own ammunition because you need to buy the right powder and when you grab stuff at random off the shelf it’s always the wrong stuff.
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Old February 17, 2021, 01:06 PM   #35
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Aguila- my ISP provides a static IP address. I am not speaking theoretically, I used to host my own content from a laptop server I set up in my basement office. In my case, I was hosting 3D gaming content.

Practically- I am telling you I really did it. To learn how to run the hosting software took me a couple of days to figure out and I am not a computer science major.

Your post is like saying one can’t reload their own ammunition because you need to buy the right powder and when you grab stuff at random off the shelf it’s always the wrong stuff.
I'm unclear what your point is. I didn't say that nobody can host their own web site. I just said it's not as easy as just waking up one morning and deciding to install a web site on your home computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
If it were that simple, I would have my own web site. What you are overlooking is that running a web site requires that your server be connected to the Internet with a static IP address. When you just get "Internet" from your phone company or cable company, you don't get a static IP, you get a dynamic IP. That means every time you reconnect, their system assigns a new IP at random. When your IP changes, the Internet can't find you.

You can get a static IP, but it's more expensive, and it may require some arguing to get it. I have a friend across town who has his own server -- and he's in IT, so his server isn't an old laptop, it's a rack of redundant servers in his basement. He was stuck with a very slow DSL connection for years because the cable company that has the monopoly to serve our town couldn't (or wouldn't) do a static IP. They finally came around and just last year he was able to switch to the cable company and get better speeds. But ... to get a static IP connection he had to buy a commercial account -- they won't do static IP for a residential customer.
The biggest sticking point is the static IP address. When I was on a DSL line, the telephone company would have charged significantly more for a static IP -- and, even then, it wouldn't have really been static. I worked for a small firm that hosted its own site. Any time there was a power outage accompanied by loss of telephone service, when the power and phone service came back our IP address had changed. The IT guy would then spent an entire day -- on average -- on the phone with the telco getting the IP reset to what it should have been as soon as the power came back on.

And, as I wrote, now that I'm on cable for Internet a static IP is not available to a residential customer. The cable company will do it, but they will only do it if you upgrade to a commercial account.

What you originally wrote, and what I initially responded to, was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkeypete
All you need is a crappy ancient laptop to run as your own server, the software required is dirt simple, we used to do it all the time back in the day.
In short, a crappy ancient laptop is not "all you need."
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Old February 17, 2021, 01:32 PM   #36
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The static IP isn't really that big of a deal. There are services available that can match up your current IP address (even floating) with your hostname and propagate the DNS records so you hostname will continue to work.

I'll confess, I don't really see where this is going. If someone seriously thinks that you can spin up a website on a home laptop and provide competition to FB, well... good luck with that.

When serious competition showed up to twitter, Amazon, Apple and Google closed ranks to shut it down.
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Old February 17, 2021, 02:25 PM   #37
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When serious competition showed up to twitter, Amazon, Apple and Google closed ranks to shut it down.
This seems to be the part where a case for monopoly can be made. However, it's a matter of what can be proven and what the laws actually say.

Is this another case of people thinking the law requires or should require Pepsi to include a bottle of Coke in every six pack??? in order to be "fair"????

I also find it somewhat ironic that some people who want the govt to be hands off our guns seem in favor of the govt being hands on our social media accounts, phones, computers, and other things.

I don't get that.
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Old February 17, 2021, 02:44 PM   #38
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Parler was removed from the Apple and Android stores for violations of TOS. They cited various violent posts on the Parler and hence Parler was dropped from the stores within 24 hours of each other and Amazon web services shut them down the next day.

OTOH, Twitter and Facebook are alive and well on both Apple and Android right now, despite the numerous documented instances of terrorists using their platforms. Usually it takes days or weeks for the platforms to take action to shut down the flagged accounts.

Parler was killed in a 24 hour period.
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Old February 17, 2021, 07:36 PM   #39
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Oh, hey... about those emergency services using FB to communicate important news?

Well, sorry about that if you happen to live in Australia, because facebook just censored the entire country.

Quote:
In response to Australia’s proposed new Media Bargaining law, Facebook will restrict publishers and people in Australia from sharing or viewing Australian and international news content.
But its a private company and can do whatever they like?
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Old February 17, 2021, 07:38 PM   #40
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for true emergencies or vital updates you should be able to go directly to the .org/.gov ect web page, not social media. if you can't you should re-access where you get vital/emergency information.
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Old February 17, 2021, 09:47 PM   #41
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for true emergencies or vital updates you should be able to go directly to the .org/.gov ect web page, not social media. if you can't you should re-access where you get vital/emergency information.
I think you missed the fact that many local governments seem to have decided that everyone has Facebook (we know that's not true, but they don't) so they don't maintain their web sites with current information. Their default, "go to" medium of communication when they want/need to disseminate information quickly is Facebook.
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Old February 17, 2021, 10:26 PM   #42
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I think you missed the fact that many local governments seem to have decided that everyone has Facebook (we know that's not true, but they don't) so they don't maintain their web sites with current information. Their default, "go to" medium of communication when they want/need to disseminate information quickly is Facebook.
While I have no issues with govt (local or otherwise) using Facebook, I do not think that they should use it exclusive of their official channels of communication.

in other words, AFTER they have updated their website or what ever other system of communication they have, as spelled out in their emergency response procedures. Which they DO have, even if few know of them or follow them.
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Old February 17, 2021, 11:53 PM   #43
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While I have no issues with govt (local or otherwise) using Facebook, I do not think that they should use it exclusive of their official channels of communication.
I agree. But, I also see why they rely on social media. Updating a website requires tooling and knowledge. For a small community, that can be a challenge. Facebook and Twitter have mastered the tech to allow pretty much anyone to make updates that can be disseminated to an interested audience.

In a fast moving situation things get dicey. I referenced trying to follow updates on a wildfire near a friend. To expand: I think it was the Glenwood Springs fire (2 years ago, started on 4th of July iirc). The fire moved fast, and the FD was pushing updates to their website, but they were relying on FB to provide detailed info. What was happening on FB was crazy. People were making claims that the fire was where it wasn't, and other people were denying that was the case so the end result was a fog of confusion for events that could have catastrophic results if people made the wrong decision based on this info.

My issue was that FB was protecting some info (I'm not sure if this was due to me continually refusing to login and FB deciding that I had viewed enough info without logging in, or the FD ignorance of how to make their updates public). So, if I did not have a FB account, I could not view detailed info.

I have a lot of beefs with twitter, but at least with their stuff the publisher has to enact specific privacy to stop the public from viewing what is tweeted.

In the course of revisiting this, I went back to the FD that was dealing with this and I note that they have since enacted an emergency notification system where you can subscribe to a service via your cell phone and you will directly receive emergency notifications from them. Of course, this is a very wealthy community and this solution is probably not viable everywhere.
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Old February 18, 2021, 01:01 AM   #44
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I agree. But, I also see why they rely on social media. Updating a website requires tooling and knowledge. For a small community, that can be a challenge. Facebook and Twitter have mastered the tech to allow pretty much anyone to make updates that can be disseminated to an interested audience.
That's the problem. Web sites also require hosting, and I assume that even government entities have to pay for hosting unless they're big enough (and technological enough) to run their own server(s) and self-host. Even then, as you mentioned, updating a web site requires someone who speaks Internet and who knows how to upload something to the web.

Facebook? Twitter? Anyone can post something on Facebook, or Twitter. What do you want to say ... DONE. It's quick. It's easy. But the ubiquitous reliance on it as a means of communicating important information is based on the false assumption that everyone has Facebook.
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Old February 18, 2021, 02:23 AM   #45
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Facebook? Twitter? Anyone can post something on Facebook, or Twitter.
Which leads to this...
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What was happening on FB was crazy. People were making claims that the fire was where it wasn't, and other people were denying that was the case so the end result was a fog of confusion for events that could have catastrophic results if people made the wrong decision based on this info.
because anyone can post about anything....which means one has a hard time knowing what is official (and real) and what isn't.

An official web sit or service for your phone takes someone to operate it, but only that official someone does the input/updates.

I would think that in this day in the age of information that any official govt group (including small town fire depts) could be linked onto some larger govt paid/operated server (like the county or state)

Today, even a volunteer FD should be able to field some kind of system linking to some thing that would have a web site or phone app. Or so I think, I'm not very tech savy with everything today.

Back in the late 60s my family was involved with our local volunteer FD. They put a special phone in our house with a box called a "plectron unit" (or something like that) that had a lever on it. Several people in the FD had them in their homes. When someone called the firehouse emergency number the phones would all ring, someone would answer, take the report, and push the lever which connected them all together with radio, and linking with county emergency dispatch, and you gave the report to everyone. Pushing the lever the other way blew the firehouse siren so everyone who didn't have radio knew to get to the firehouse and man the equipment.

It wasn't Facebook, but it worked.
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