October 14, 2014, 08:53 PM | #51 |
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Thanks for the Brownell's lead. That is very promising.
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October 15, 2014, 12:41 AM | #52 |
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Oh, c'mon! Picatinny rails look like a toothache. A real rifle deserves real scope bases and rings. You can buy blank bases (like these) and cut dovetails in them. Or Leupold QD mounts, if you'd rather. Or Leupold QRW bases and rings, if you just gotta have simple.
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October 16, 2014, 11:59 AM | #53 |
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This looks to be an even better option, for the Dumoulin receiver: IR-RU-22 Ironsighter bases. These bases fit the Ruger 10/22, the hole spacing is 0.862” and 0.500” and they will work with Weaver rings. They are aluminum so I can easily remove the slight Ruger receiver arc from the bottom.
Turns out a one piece Weaver base for the Marlin 336 is workable, as long as you are willing to cut it into two sections. It is flat bottomed, the back has a 0.500” hole spacing, the front holes have almost a 0.862”, but with oval head screws, it tightened down on my Dumoulin receiver.
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October 16, 2014, 06:17 PM | #54 |
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Since I don't have a machine shop, how much arc has to be removed?
I'm thinking flat file and sandpaper maybe? Go ahead and hit me.
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October 16, 2014, 10:01 PM | #55 |
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I have taken the bases off, but it is not much. I was thinking of using the flat side of my grinding disc, maybe a file. I am going to take it slow and make sure that both bases are going down the same amount. I plan to epoxy the bases onto the top of the receiver.
I looked at a set of FN Mauser Redfield type bases. Huge curvature, way too much material to remove. However, the hole spacing was correct for front and back. There may be a better solution that has not been found yet. There may be a set, or a combination of front and back bases from two sets, that would work better. The basic problem I have is I need an actual physical specimen to determine hole spacing and base curvature. I have not found this information on the web, all manufacturer's will tell you is what guns their bases fit.
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October 17, 2014, 07:43 AM | #56 | |
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Quote:
Or, you could buy one of these: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMAKA=613-5903 As far as the matching the dia. of the receiver to the base, I don't think it's critical as you're going to bed it- but IMO, it would be important to remove material equally on both sides of the centerline so that the base will have equal contact to the receiver on both sides. If you don't have access to a mill, it might be better to just leave the base flat. My concern is that whacking at it with a grinder, and then torquing it down might tend to force the base off the centerline. Honestly, I would only do a job like this on my mill. Aside from the curvature of the base, getting the screws precisely spaced, as well as centered on the rail would be very difficult otherwise. The rail could end up being off the centerline of the bore. Small deviations might be resolved with a windage adjustable base, but I think it's best done right. JMO...machinists/gunsmiths chime in...
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November 9, 2014, 01:42 PM | #57 |
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I measured the cut, and it is 60 degrees.
Looking at curved top Mauser bases for modification: Weaver S45 [steel rear 0.504" hole space 0.395" thick, 0.050" curve on bottom, 0.285" deep countersink 0.207" with 0.146" clearance hole] and Weaver S46 [steel rear 0.860" hole spacing, 0.220" thick, 0.069" curve on bottom, 0.110" deep countersink] Too boring... will have to make a sketch. I have some V blocks I have modified for holding Weaver mounts upside down for milling. I could easily mill the bottoms flat. But the mounts need to end up being the same thickness, and the Weaver #45 is too thick and the countersink is too deep. I would be milling up into the countersink. Things that come to mind to do in addition to milling the bottoms flat: 1) Drill and tap the rear of the Mauser for 8-40 threads, and make a bigger diameter countersink and clearance hole in the #45 steel Weaver. 2) Make a bigger diameter countersink in the #45 steel Weaver and put a washer under the 6-48 screw head. 3) Search for other thinner steel scope bases with 0.504" hole spacing. 4) Consider Aluminum scope base options. 5) Just use two S46 front bases and drill and countersink another hole at .504". Cut the length down to 0.815" to get rid of the unused hole. 6) An S25 is a .504" space hole that is .248" thick. That is only 0.026" thicker than an S46 at 0.222" thick. An S25 in the rear, an S46 in the front, it just might work.
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November 10, 2014, 10:19 AM | #58 |
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With the machinery at your disposal, limitless options
I'm a picatinny rail guy... I'd just get a blank rail section and drill out to match the existing receiver holes (and mill a 20 or 30 minute down angle on the bottom of it).
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November 10, 2014, 06:34 PM | #59 |
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I'm into this thread a bit late.
The typical Mausers were made of low carbon steel ,like a 1020 which was carburized. Normally OK but wartime ones might be a problem. My '43 Oberndorf had spotty hardness on the receliver so I had it recarburized and hardened. I asked about their method and it was OK .You first made sure both locking lugs made contact and other necessary details. After the war there was a big movement to use 4140 an excellent steel for many things . If you want better than that use 4340 as some have done.
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November 11, 2014, 05:26 PM | #60 |
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If you want better than that buy an Arisaka, which is already 4140.
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November 11, 2014, 09:52 PM | #61 |
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I am tooling up for option #5 of mine above.
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November 12, 2014, 07:15 AM | #62 |
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Clark, let me know if you happen to make an extra set of those will ya? Especially if you also have extra screws laying around.
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November 12, 2014, 11:45 AM | #63 |
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Cow, you are on my short list.
I ordered (24) [some extra] of Weaver S61 flat bottom .860" steel mounts. All I have to do is, in half of them, drill and countersunk hole and shorten the base. I won't have to do anything to the front base. With a stop on the mill vise, it will take just seconds extra to make extra rear bases: 1) center drill at .504" a batch in the mill 2) through hole drill a batch in the mill 3) countersink with 7/32 end mill, a batch in the mill 4) mill the end off a batch in the mill 5) deburr the cut offs with a file 6) blue cut off end and countersunk holes with some boiling water It all seems easy in the planning state.
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November 13, 2014, 12:04 PM | #64 |
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Cowtowner,
SWFA took my order and then later figures out they can't fill it. The backorder should take a week, the Southern accent woman's voice at SWAF says. So you will not get hardware for at least a couple weeks.
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November 14, 2014, 07:16 AM | #65 |
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No worries. I really appreciate the work you've done for these bases.
Mine is in slow motion for the build. But, moving ahead at a snail's pace is the best I can do right now.
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November 19, 2014, 09:31 PM | #66 |
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I did not get my order of bases from SWAFA yet, but I snagged a couple new old stock off Ebay.
These are simply flat bottomed Weaver grand slam steel bases, S61. The one in front fits with 0.860" centers. The one in the rear I drilled an extra #26 hole on 0.504" centers, and made a 7/32" countersink 0.245" deep.
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November 20, 2014, 01:09 AM | #67 | |||
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I know I'm a little late to the party but this action has been discussed in length on other forums. Here is a post from a guy who used Sunny Hill rings to mount his scope.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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November 20, 2014, 01:25 AM | #68 |
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That is TCI at 24HCF. I remember him from AR 10 or 15 years ago.
Very good poster. But I am getting steel Weaver bases for $22/rifle.
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November 20, 2014, 07:15 AM | #69 |
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Being a tightwad, I like Clark's idea on price much better.
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November 20, 2014, 09:39 AM | #70 | |
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Quote:
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November 20, 2014, 10:12 AM | #71 |
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Based on the picture Clark linked to of his setup, it doesn't appear to be too high. And, if one would choose a 50mm objective lens for the scope, it should fit quite nicely.
A stock with a slightly higher comb, like the Boyd's Prairie Hunter model, should handle the check rest as well.
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November 22, 2014, 09:05 AM | #72 |
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The notch on the rear scope ring that mates with the receiver ring to prevent movement under recoil is a nice idea. DD Ross machines a shoulder for the same purpose for the rail on the Rem 700/ M40A3.
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December 2, 2014, 10:45 PM | #73 |
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I have tried something new, despite the quantity of parts I have on back order.
The is an S54 and an S46 with the radius on the bottom milled off. It gets this tactical 30mm ring and scope to be 1.75" from the bore line, which is usually the minimum.
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December 2, 2014, 10:51 PM | #74 |
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In these pics you can see the bottom getting milled off.
I had to file off the burr. Filing off the burr put a nick in the parkerizing or what ever finish there is there. The up close pics looked terrible with the burr and worse with the hole in the finish. So I took a Marks a lot felt pen and covered over the shiny part. Looks great on camera now, but maybe bluing would be better for the real world.
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December 3, 2014, 07:36 AM | #75 |
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That's certainly the "KISS" principle. I've always been a proponent of the Weaver/picatinny mounting system. With "traditional" ring mounts, you have zero flexibility- can't change ring heights, can't change 1"/30mm... I would never own anything else.
Forgive the question from the learning novice machinist Clark... If I were going to do what you did, I would have indicated the rail sections in the milling vise (level), and just milled off the tops. Is the dovetail jig required to prevent the rail sections from "slipping" when milling- IOW- pressure from square vise jaws on the edges might not be sufficient?
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