The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 11, 2012, 06:41 PM   #76
hanleyfan
Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Posts: 32
I ran out of 231 and had a bunch of trail boss I use in my 45 colt loads so out of curiosity I loaded some 230gr. with 4.5 gr. of trail boss and I was surprised at the results, I like it better than the 231, cleaner and more accurate. I liked it enough I will using it instead of 231 since I have a lot of trail boss.
hanleyfan is offline  
Old May 14, 2018, 04:29 AM   #77
chaswea
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2013
Location: Dallas,Texas
Posts: 2
Alliant Red Dot for.45 ACP
chaswea is offline  
Old May 14, 2018, 09:32 AM   #78
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16,503
Rodfac,

They are the same powder. Both are canister grade OBP231 from the St. Marks, Florida plant. I found that in the MSDS sheets from around 2009. More recent ones omit that information because rule changes allow them to.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old May 14, 2018, 10:03 AM   #79
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 13,720
This thread is 6 years old. I bet the OP found a powder that works by now.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old May 14, 2018, 10:20 AM   #80
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,511
I just read the whole thing (wasn't sure why it was resurrected) and surprised nobody mentioned Herco. It's like Unique with longer legs.
__________________
"Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth
zxcvbob is online now  
Old May 14, 2018, 11:11 AM   #81
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16,503
Hah! I didn't even look at the dates. Yes, I'm sure it's long since been decided by the OP. It is, however, a topic for periodic update as new powders come out.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old May 16, 2018, 12:37 AM   #82
Charlie_98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2011
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,041
For me, it's still Unique.

For 200grn bullets, I can sub in W231 or WST and be happy, but for 230grn factory-level loads... it's Unique.
__________________
Dennis

Wherever you go, there you are...
Charlie_98 is offline  
Old May 16, 2018, 06:47 AM   #83
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,284
Still 231 for me, all bullet weights.

Likely will always be 231 for me for all bullet weights.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 16, 2018, 10:21 AM   #84
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,034
I would say Bullseye. It may be dirty, I don't know as I shoot cast bullets and they are so filthy it doesn't matter. I clean my guns every 200 to 250 rounds so being dirty is no great concern. I'm currently using WST and may switch to WST totally but too soon to tell.
pete2 is online now  
Old May 17, 2018, 06:58 AM   #85
Road_Clam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,362
And 6 years later after the original post was made what have we learned ? Everyone has a different opinion, LOL
__________________
"To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"
Road_Clam is offline  
Old May 17, 2018, 09:43 PM   #86
Charlie_98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2011
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
And 6 years later after the original post was made what have we learned ? Everyone has a different opinion, LOL
No, what we learned is Unique is the best handgun powder evarrrrrrrrrr... everything else pales in comparison. But, you already knew that, right?
__________________
Dennis

Wherever you go, there you are...
Charlie_98 is offline  
Old May 17, 2018, 11:33 PM   #87
Bimus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2018
Location: Farmington NM
Posts: 122
I tried some Alliant BE-86 they list 45 ACP +P loads these are not +P

Fired from full size H&K USP 45 ACP 230gr lead round nose
5.7 grains average FPS 800
5.9 grains average FPS 800
6.2 grains average FPS 862

Fired from UZI 16 inch barrel
5.7 grains average FPS 989
5.9 grains average FPS 1016
6.2 grains average FPS 1079

Fired from UZI 16 inch barrel 200 grain cast wad cutter
7.3 grains average FPS 1221

I just started loading with this powder .
Bimus is offline  
Old May 18, 2018, 08:34 AM   #88
GTOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 192
A valid question day to day.
Bullseye is popular since the 1911 pistol, the standard charge was 5 grains of it behind a 230gn round nose bullet as I recall. It is hard to say that is bad.

I am a HP-38/Win 231 guy, because there are good loads for pistol in my .380 9mm and 45 acp pistols. A good powder from .380 all the way up to .44 SP in fact.
I like not having 6 different powders. I think I do have a couple different 1 pound bottles of BE, power pistol, maybe something else I can't recall right now, but three 8 pound jugs of HP-38. Ha.
GTOne is offline  
Old May 18, 2018, 09:18 AM   #89
btreanor
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 7, 2018
Posts: 8
Bullseye is still my favorite all around powder for the .45 ACP
btreanor is offline  
Old May 18, 2018, 11:20 AM   #90
USSR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2017
Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY
Posts: 820
Bullseye, 700X, Solo 1000, AA#2, W231/HP38, AA#5, Unique, just some of my favourite .45 ACP powders.

Don
__________________
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
USSR is offline  
Old May 18, 2018, 01:48 PM   #91
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Taxifornia
Posts: 4,903
I love this thread.

One thing I can say for sure is that 45 ACP is something of a wild card when it comes to a propellant's burn rate. They tend to behave slower in 45 ACP than other calibers.

W231 (my favorite, to answer the original question) for instance, can be used to wind up some pretty stout 230 grain ammo. We're talking well into the 800 f/s range. Whereas other calibers, moving to a slower powder would be in order.

Someone mentioned Unique. I only use Unique in 45 ACP when I'm going for near-max velocity. It actually runs rather slow in 45 ACP.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself.
Life Member, National Rifle Association
Nick_C_S is offline  
Old May 19, 2018, 09:05 AM   #92
Charlie_98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2011
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
W231 (my favorite, to answer the original question) for instance, can be used to wind up some pretty stout 230 grain ammo. We're talking well into the 800 f/s range. Whereas other calibers, moving to a slower powder would be in order.

Someone mentioned Unique. I only use Unique in 45 ACP when I'm going for near-max velocity. It actually runs rather slow in 45 ACP.
I had the opposite experience... I couldn't hardly get my 230grn W231 loads over 800fps, without redlining the load, which I wasn't comfortable doing with W231. My max load of Unique (6.5grn) on the other hand does it handily. I have a lot more experience loading Unique to maximums than any other powder, I've found that it doesn't give pressure spikes like some of the faster powders at max. There is no doubt W231 (and WST) burn cleaner than Unique on the top end, however.
__________________
Dennis

Wherever you go, there you are...
Charlie_98 is offline  
Old May 19, 2018, 11:15 AM   #93
Master Blaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1999
Location: One of the original 13 Colonies
Posts: 2,258
The Army marksmanship unit likes a full power load of Vitavouri n310 with a Nosler 185 JHP as their 50 yard bullseye pistol load.

My favorite after using all others you can list over 25 years of shooting and reloading .45 acp is Bullseye. 4.0 grains under a 200 LSWC for a bullseye accuracy load. 6.0 grains under a 185 JHP for self defense.

Some of the bullseye pistol high master shooters at my club swear by accurate arms solo 1000 instead of bullseye, some are using vv N310.
Master Blaster is offline  
Old May 19, 2018, 11:19 AM   #94
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Taxifornia
Posts: 4,903
Quote:
I couldn't hardly get my 230grn W231 loads over 800fps, without redlining the load.
I get 826 f/s (full-size 1911) out of my "set" 230gn PRN using W231. And that's the "set" loading; meaning, in the work up, I "redlined" (good term - I like it ) it at a higher charge weight and velocity, then backed it down for the "set." I think it's a good stout round.

Quote:
My max load of Unique (6.5grn) on the other hand does it handily.
No doubt. Unique is a slower propellant than W231 - it's going to win the velocity contest every time. My max load of Unique is a little less than yours; and yields 903 f/s (using a JHP - which generally takes less propellant than the PRN used in the above W231 example - so there's some apples n oranges going on here). I've taken it to 932 f/s, but backed off the charge weight for the "set" load (as usual). I never got to 6.5 grains, btw. I "redlined" at 6.4.

Quote:
I have a lot more experience loading Unique to maximums than any other powder, I've found that it doesn't give pressure spikes like some of the faster powders at max.
Unique is generally well behaved that way. Of course, in general, faster propellants are going to be more temperamental. So, like the velocity contest, it's not really a fair fight. Apples n oranges; so to speak.

Quote:
There is no doubt W231 burns cleaner than Unique on the top end, however.
Yeah. W231, being a faster burner, has the advantage there. And W231 has a long-standing, well-deserved reputation of running clean to boot. Unique, not so much. That said however, Unique seems to run plenty clean to me when it's loaded where it likes to run (pumped up).

I used Unique for a while when I first started loading (1984). It fell out of favor with me at the time mostly because I was shooting big magnums and wanted everything full-throttle (youth). I didn't shoot much from the mid-90's through much of 2012. I reached a point in my life when I started to get back into shooting more often. My shooting style changed (age) and I then needed an intermediate burn rate powder - right when the big shortage hit. Out of desperation, I bought 2#'s of Unique; then two more. I was also able to get ahold of other intermediates - AA#5, HS-6 (which I also had previous experience with), and Power Pistol (which is awesome, but that's for another post) - all of which I liked more than Unique.

For about the last two years, I have been working on paring down the number of propellants I am holding in my inventory. Unique is on the cut list. I still have a little over a # and won't miss it when it's gone. It makes good ammo, in some applications; particularly driving 230's in 45 ACP. But it meters wonky as hell. And I find it flighty in 357 Magnum (light bullets), where Power Pistol just beats the tar out of it in every respect. So it's got to go; and I've been loading with it at every opportunity lately - to move it out of inventory. But I have lots of load data, should I need to use it again some day.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself.
Life Member, National Rifle Association
Nick_C_S is offline  
Old May 19, 2018, 06:54 PM   #95
BBarn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2015
Posts: 780
W231 is generally my first choice for the 45 Auto. Bullseye is great, but it doesn't meter nearly as smoothly through my powder measure. Accurate #5 is another one that has worked well for me.

I've used several other powders, but they haven't done anything better for me than those three listed above.

Most of my 45 Auto loads are for target/plinking.
BBarn is offline  
Old May 20, 2018, 06:24 AM   #96
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,284
"No, what we learned is Unique is the best handgun powder evarrrrrrrrrr... everything else pales in comparison. But, you already knew that, right?"

I've often said here at TFL that Unique is the single most flexible and useful powder ever offered to the American handloader.

That said, I don't like it, and I don't use it, simply because of its poor metering qualities.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 20, 2018, 01:50 PM   #97
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Taxifornia
Posts: 4,903
Quote:
That said, I don't like it, and I don't use it, simply because of its poor metering qualities.
That's my primary reason for not caring for it. But someone here on TFL - and I wish I could remember who it was - suggested using a "double-tap" on the throw lever to pack down the charge more consistently. It works. It really does. It's an inconvenience; but it definitely works. It is the method I will be using until my last # is exhausted.

Quote:
I've often said here at TFL that Unique is the single most flexible and useful powder ever offered to the American handloader.
Yeah, I've heard that - a lot. And Alliant proclaims pretty much the same. I'm pretty sure I define "versatile" differently that most. I have no doubt that one could "make do" with Unique in a lot of situations. But I don't craft "make do" ammo.

Here's my experience:

Unique is only useful in 38/44 Special pushing heavies (158/240 respectively), pumped all the way up (or maybe beyond) to the top of "P+." Otherwise, it runs sooty with unspent propellant all about.

Does fairly well pushing heavies in 9mm. But the metering thing makes me a little nervy in such a small case.

Makes good 357 Mag ammo pushing 125's. But even at that, Standard Deviations tend to run high. Seems to settle down a little with mag primers. All in all, I've rather given up on the combo. Velocity lacks with 158's, so that's out.

As for 44 Mag, I suppose results would be similar to 357 Mag; but I don't load that way for 44 Mag. So I'm neutral on my opinion of using Unique with 44 Mag.

I load 10mm Auto; but have never done so with Unique. Neutral.

With 45 ACP, I get high SD's with light bullets. But with 230's - now that's where Unique really shines. I am very pleased with Unique for making both upper tier range shooters (slightly potent); as well as full-throttle bad boys. Yes, Unique does this quite well. And I bet most all of my final # of the stuff will be used for these two loadings.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself.
Life Member, National Rifle Association
Nick_C_S is offline  
Old May 20, 2018, 05:48 PM   #98
Rifletom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 712
Well, I'm glad this thread was brought back to life. For me, I use Unique, Clays and Universal in the old .45 Auto. Just bought some BE-86 to try. Thinking I'll be staying with Unique and Clays tho.
Rifletom is offline  
Old May 20, 2018, 08:04 PM   #99
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,284
Flexible in that it us useful in probably a broader spectrum of handgun, rifle, and shotgun loads than any other powder.

I never said that it would do everything any other powder would, from powder puff loads to full on magnum thumpers.

It does, like any other powder, have its limitations.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 20, 2018, 11:34 PM   #100
Nick_C_S
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2013
Location: Taxifornia
Posts: 4,903
Quote:
Flexible in that it (Unique) is useful in probably a broader spectrum of handgun, rifle, and shotgun loads than any other powder.
No doubt it fills the cases (and hulls) of many different types of ammunition. I'm pretty sure Unique is older than any living human - that speaks for itself. Crappy powders don't stay popular that long.

It may not be my cup of tea, but that doesn't make it a lousy propellant. No powder is "bad." Every one is useful in some application.

I got to thinking about it, and for me, I would consider AA#5 the most versatile powder I use. I believe #5 is just a tick faster than Unique; but if somebody took issue with that notion, I wouldn't argue the point.

I have successfully used AA#5 in every handgun caliber I load. Like Unique, its use is somewhat limited in the large volume / low pressure 38 & 44 Specials. But other than that, I have used it quite a bit in lots of chamberings. In the magnums, it's reserved for more tame loadings with light bullets - but does this niche well (better than Unique IMO). Makes great 180gn range shooters in 10mm Auto (and probably even better 165's, but I don't shoot 165's). Nice potent 45 ACP rounds - all weights (behaves much better than Unique with light bullets). And 9mm is its wheelhouse caliber. Makes exceptional 9mm ammo - range shooters as well as defense loadings. A bit limited with 147's, but other than that, AA#5 really shines in the 9-mil. I don't load 40 Cal, but I'm sure it would prove exceptional there too.

Runs much cleaner; and meters infinitely better than Unique too.
__________________
Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself.
Life Member, National Rifle Association
Nick_C_S is offline  
Reply

Tags
.45 , acp , bullseye , gun , powder

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12894 seconds with 8 queries