Thoughts on pump .357s?

Blade37db · May 30, 2018, 02:24 PM

I tried the lever gun thing and just don't like the action (I know that is heresy to some) for a few reasons.
Stumbled upon a pump .357

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sch...-20-round.html

Not cheap, but sure is pretty.
Is the slide action on pistol caliber carbine as good as a good pump shotgun and as reliable (minus short stroking)?

NoSecondBest · May 30, 2018, 02:28 PM

They are pretty. I've owned around five, maybe six?, Pedersoli rifles over the last ten years. I almost got the pump you're referring to but stopped short. I read too many reviews of quality problems with this particular gun, and I can tell you from personal experience that Pedersoli is almost impossible to get any customer service from. They have a very limited service set-up in this country and if you have a problem you're going to be very, very disappointed with your gun. I have no ax to grind with Pedersoli, their Sharps replicas are outstanding but some of their other guns are not. Look and research this a bit more before buying. If you do get one, I wish you the best of luck with your new gun.

Scorch · May 30, 2018, 02:31 PM

I have heard the Lightning replicas have issues.

AZ sharpshooter · May 30, 2018, 03:49 PM

I have a Ruger 77/357 bolt action, which I thoroughly enjoy, but I mostly shoot it single shot. Many of the 357 rifles have problems feeding because they have a straight-walled case, which is not conducive to smooth cycling; there is no "play" sending the cartridge into the chamber-little to no tolerance.

My Ruger bolt works OK in that way, but that is all it is, OK. It is not a smooth transition and sometimes the magazine may not rotate properly. I wouldn't want to count on it loading the third round very quickly.

If you are looking for a 357 repeater of some type that works as smooth as a '98 Mauser, you probably won't find it. That said, the 357 rifle is a lot of fun to load for and shoot.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

AZ Sharpshooter
-NRA Lifer

reddog81 · May 30, 2018, 05:09 PM

That's a nice looking rifle! Did you stumble upon someone that has one for sale, or just the rifle in general. It looks like they're pretty rare. I found some 45's for sale but the .357's appeared to be out of stock most places.

I'd hope that any bullets with a round nose profile would feed fine - RN, RNFP, etc. I'd guess there might be issues with feeding more blunt nosed SWC's and other similar shaped bullets.

bamaranger · May 30, 2018, 07:27 PM

Maybe 10-15 yrs ago, maybe more, IMI (?) marketed a pump .357 they called the Timberwolf. One might be found used.......I don't now if I've ever seen one in the flesh, period. Seems like I've read somewhere that the original Lightning rifles had a durability problem. Maybe modern metallurgy has fixed that.

I'm thinking lever rifle feed problems are not always straight wall case issues, but bullet nose profile issues. The lever reliable rifle first appeared a straight wall case (.44 Henry), and continued with the near straight .44 WCF and .38 WCF as well. My Dad's 70's era M94 fed .44 mag flawlessly, as does my early Marlin in .357. But C.O.A.L was important, as was bullet nose. SWC would usually cause problems. Two modern rifles is not much of a sample pool, but the old Winchesters ran fine by most accounts.

Nanuk · May 30, 2018, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Many of the 357 rifles have problems feeding because they have a straight-walled case, which is not conducive to smooth cycling; there is no "play" sending the cartridge into the chamber-little to no tolerance.

My Marlins, a couple Rossi's, my Henry, my Dad's Winchester all feed strait wall cases great. You must have a bad one, or it is the Ruger Magazine. The older Ruger 44's fed fine.

44caliberkid · May 30, 2018, 08:05 PM

The original Lightenings weren't good, and none of the reproduction have been either. Just a bad design to start with. Someone needs to start with a clean sheet of paper for pistol caliber pump rifles. Might be a wise business move, since the future of semi autos might be in danger. Like the pump action AR's and AK's they have in Australia. I'd start with 44 Magnum/ 45 or 454 size frame first, then a smaller 357/ 9mm frame, if there is a demand.
I think the Timberwolf could have been successful if they had introduced it in 44 first. But I've never seen one, or even a review, maybe other than prototypes they were never produced.

Blade37db · May 31, 2018, 09:12 AM

Thanks guys.
I think I'll stay away given the price/performance may not be worth the headaches.

tranders · May 31, 2018, 11:07 AM

Quote:

My Marlins, a couple Rossi's, my Henry, my Dad's Winchester all feed strait wall cases great. You must have a bad one, or it is the Ruger Magazine. The older Ruger 44's fed fine.

We have a Ruger 77/44 and it isn't the smoothest feeding bolt gun either.
My Marlin 44 mag lever gun with tube fed magazine is much smoother.

Art Eatman · May 31, 2018, 12:02 PM

Reading this, a thought bubbled up from the sewer of my mind regarding straight wall cases: Think "pump shotguns".

bamaranger · May 31, 2018, 05:16 PM

Yeah, that's true, pump shotguns are usually the hallmark of reliability.

I managed to think of other pistol caliber pumps.....the Rem 14-1/2 family. No .357 though.

ma96782 · May 31, 2018, 06:34 PM

For those that didn't know.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Lightning_Carbine

Aloha, Mark

Model12Win · May 31, 2018, 07:26 PM

Someone like Ruger needs to get on that.

A nice little alloy frame stainless pump .357 with peeps would make a light, sweet shooter.

GLK · June 1, 2018, 08:34 AM

"Someone like Ruger needs to get on that.
A nice little alloy frame stainless pump .357 with peeps would make a light, sweet shooter."

Pretty much my exact same thought after reading this thread.

Ibmikey · June 2, 2018, 09:33 PM

My lightning replicas are American Western Arms, I have a standard grade in .45 Colt and a Limited Edition of 500 engraved rifles mine being in .38 special. I have used the .38 at cowboy shoots a number of times and the rifle is deadly accurate and has been quite reliable.
The bad thing is AWA is out of business so no more available. The Lightning is a bit different if you are accustomed to a lever both in loading and operation.
I also purchased a Taurus Lightning and it would not shoot more than a few shots without a malfunction.

geologist · June 4, 2018, 05:08 PM

The Israeli IMI Timberwolf is out of production and are rare and kind of collectible here in Canada.

They take down with just a coin, the angle of the stock is adjustable for use of either the irons or an optic. It can only be reloaded with the action open.

I like mine a lot.

It feeds well both .357 magnum and .38 Special and cycles very quickly. Recoil is minimal.

jetinteriorguy · June 6, 2018, 05:19 AM

I've always wanted a timberwolf. A couple years ago one came up for sale locally, but I just can't fork out $1800.00 for one. I would have been tempted at a thousand though. So I'll just have to stick with my Henry BBS.

ma96782 · June 7, 2018, 07:34 PM

BTW......I've seen exactly one (actually a clone) at a local club SASS match.

The old reliable lever actions still rule the roost. From this video, maybe you can see why that is. WARNING....you probably don't want your LIBERAL friends seeing this as they'll want to ban these old guns too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsexKLYtCkI

Aloha, Mark

Rifletom · June 7, 2018, 08:15 PM

Wow! She is fast!

rc · July 7, 2018, 04:02 PM

I bought a Timberwolf in the mid 90s from a dealer who was the second owner. They shot it a bit and fell out of love, selling it to me for $350 at a gunshow when a new Marlin was $300 or so. At the time there wasn't the fever over banning all semi autos. I've shot the gun and can say a pump 357 is FUN. It is based on the 870 but different. The magazine as mentioned can only be loaded with the pump all the way back. The gun will feed 38s and 357s just fine. It has a generous feed ramp and cases swell at the rear. Never had one blow but always a concern. Marlin levers are not so hard on brass. A 357 rifle is at short range much more powerful than a 223 in terms of impact. 2 liter bottles almost vaporize with hollow points at 1600fps. You can push light constructed bullets fast enough for them to melt in flight with a 357 rifle so soft points are better for these if using 125s over 1500fps. IMI was a bit late to the party in terms of law enforcement transitioning from 357mag to 9mm and 40. With their intended market drying up, they gave up. In today's market however, IMI would be able to sell these as an alternative to AR15s and AKs as a homestead defender, ranch knock about general purpose rifle. The 357 beyond 100 yards is a capable coyote wacker. Sadly, nobody makes a current and modern 357 like the IMI Timberwolf anymore. IMI also made some of these in 44mag. The 357 has a very heavy barrel in deference to the bigger 44 brother. I think only about 10,000 were imported to the states and maybe even Canada so they are extremely rare but do show up for sale from time to time. A nice rifle if you can find one at a reasonable price. It would be great if Remington could reintroduce their model 25 in 327 Federal and 357 Magnum. rc

ms6852 · July 8, 2018, 07:05 PM

I have a pedersoli sharps 45/70 and the dealer for this rifle told me that the major complaint customers had on the lightening rifles was a cycling issue... and it is throw of the dice as to which rifle will have this problem. He did assure me that he has his own gunsmith that works on them should I ever decide to buy one and had those issue. Again everything I posted is base on heresay.

wachtelhund1 · July 10, 2018, 10:20 AM

I have an American Western Arms in .45 Colt which functions fine. But I only shoot reloads, 230 grain round nose. I keep the COL to slightly less than recommend specs.

May 30, 2018, 02:24 PM	#1
Blade37db Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2005 Posts: 282	Thoughts on pump .357s? I tried the lever gun thing and just don't like the action (I know that is heresy to some) for a few reasons. Stumbled upon a pump .357 https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sch...-20-round.html Not cheap, but sure is pretty. Is the slide action on pistol caliber carbine as good as a good pump shotgun and as reliable (minus short stroking)?

May 30, 2018, 02:31 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I have heard the Lightning replicas have issues. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 30, 2018, 03:49 PM	#4
AZ sharpshooter Member Join Date: November 4, 2016 Posts: 25	357 rifles in general I have a Ruger 77/357 bolt action, which I thoroughly enjoy, but I mostly shoot it single shot. Many of the 357 rifles have problems feeding because they have a straight-walled case, which is not conducive to smooth cycling; there is no "play" sending the cartridge into the chamber-little to no tolerance. My Ruger bolt works OK in that way, but that is all it is, OK. It is not a smooth transition and sometimes the magazine may not rotate properly. I wouldn't want to count on it loading the third round very quickly. If you are looking for a 357 repeater of some type that works as smooth as a '98 Mauser, you probably won't find it. That said, the 357 rifle is a lot of fun to load for and shoot. I hope you find what you are looking for. AZ Sharpshooter -NRA Lifer

May 30, 2018, 07:27 PM	#6
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	Timberwolf Maybe 10-15 yrs ago, maybe more, IMI (?) marketed a pump .357 they called the Timberwolf. One might be found used.......I don't now if I've ever seen one in the flesh, period. Seems like I've read somewhere that the original Lightning rifles had a durability problem. Maybe modern metallurgy has fixed that. I'm thinking lever rifle feed problems are not always straight wall case issues, but bullet nose profile issues. The lever reliable rifle first appeared a straight wall case (.44 Henry), and continued with the near straight .44 WCF and .38 WCF as well. My Dad's 70's era M94 fed .44 mag flawlessly, as does my early Marlin in .357. But C.O.A.L was important, as was bullet nose. SWC would usually cause problems. Two modern rifles is not much of a sample pool, but the old Winchesters ran fine by most accounts.

May 31, 2018, 05:16 PM	#12
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	good thought Yeah, that's true, pump shotguns are usually the hallmark of reliability. I managed to think of other pistol caliber pumps.....the Rem 14-1/2 family. No .357 though.

May 30, 2018, 02:28 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	They are pretty. I've owned around five, maybe six?, Pedersoli rifles over the last ten years. I almost got the pump you're referring to but stopped short. I read too many reviews of quality problems with this particular gun, and I can tell you from personal experience that Pedersoli is almost impossible to get any customer service from. They have a very limited service set-up in this country and if you have a problem you're going to be very, very disappointed with your gun. I have no ax to grind with Pedersoli, their Sharps replicas are outstanding but some of their other guns are not. Look and research this a bit more before buying. If you do get one, I wish you the best of luck with your new gun.

May 30, 2018, 05:09 PM	#5
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	That's a nice looking rifle! Did you stumble upon someone that has one for sale, or just the rifle in general. It looks like they're pretty rare. I found some 45's for sale but the .357's appeared to be out of stock most places. I'd hope that any bullets with a round nose profile would feed fine - RN, RNFP, etc. I'd guess there might be issues with feeding more blunt nosed SWC's and other similar shaped bullets.

May 30, 2018, 08:05 PM	#8
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,099	The original Lightenings weren't good, and none of the reproduction have been either. Just a bad design to start with. Someone needs to start with a clean sheet of paper for pistol caliber pump rifles. Might be a wise business move, since the future of semi autos might be in danger. Like the pump action AR's and AK's they have in Australia. I'd start with 44 Magnum/ 45 or 454 size frame first, then a smaller 357/ 9mm frame, if there is a demand. I think the Timberwolf could have been successful if they had introduced it in 44 first. But I've never seen one, or even a review, maybe other than prototypes they were never produced.

May 31, 2018, 09:12 AM	#9
Blade37db Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2005 Posts: 282	Thanks guys. I think I'll stay away given the price/performance may not be worth the headaches.

May 31, 2018, 12:02 PM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Reading this, a thought bubbled up from the sewer of my mind regarding straight wall cases: Think "pump shotguns".

May 31, 2018, 06:34 PM	#13
ma96782 Member Join Date: November 18, 2000 Posts: 63	For those that didn't know....... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Lightning_Carbine Aloha, Mark

May 31, 2018, 07:26 PM	#14
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Someone like Ruger needs to get on that. A nice little alloy frame stainless pump .357 with peeps would make a light, sweet shooter.

June 1, 2018, 08:34 AM	#15
GLK Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2000 Location: Brandon FL USA Posts: 527	"Someone like Ruger needs to get on that. A nice little alloy frame stainless pump .357 with peeps would make a light, sweet shooter." Pretty much my exact same thought after reading this thread. __________________ Just face shoot the criminal was the advice I was given. Old tech new tech, face shooting will nearly always take the wrong doing out of a bad guy.

June 2, 2018, 09:33 PM	#16
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	My lightning replicas are American Western Arms, I have a standard grade in .45 Colt and a Limited Edition of 500 engraved rifles mine being in .38 special. I have used the .38 at cowboy shoots a number of times and the rifle is deadly accurate and has been quite reliable. The bad thing is AWA is out of business so no more available. The Lightning is a bit different if you are accustomed to a lever both in loading and operation. I also purchased a Taurus Lightning and it would not shoot more than a few shots without a malfunction.

June 4, 2018, 05:08 PM	#17
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 247	The Israeli IMI Timberwolf is out of production and are rare and kind of collectible here in Canada. They take down with just a coin, the angle of the stock is adjustable for use of either the irons or an optic. It can only be reloaded with the action open. I like mine a lot. It feeds well both .357 magnum and .38 Special and cycles very quickly. Recoil is minimal.

June 6, 2018, 05:19 AM	#18
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,174	I've always wanted a timberwolf. A couple years ago one came up for sale locally, but I just can't fork out $1800.00 for one. I would have been tempted at a thousand though. So I'll just have to stick with my Henry BBS.

June 7, 2018, 07:34 PM	#19
ma96782 Member Join Date: November 18, 2000 Posts: 63	BTW......I've seen exactly one (actually a clone) at a local club SASS match. The old reliable lever actions still rule the roost. From this video, maybe you can see why that is. WARNING....you probably don't want your LIBERAL friends seeing this as they'll want to ban these old guns too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsexKLYtCkI Aloha, Mark

June 7, 2018, 08:15 PM	#20
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	Wow! She is fast!

July 7, 2018, 04:02 PM	#21
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,765	I bought a Timberwolf in the mid 90s from a dealer who was the second owner. They shot it a bit and fell out of love, selling it to me for $350 at a gunshow when a new Marlin was $300 or so. At the time there wasn't the fever over banning all semi autos. I've shot the gun and can say a pump 357 is FUN. It is based on the 870 but different. The magazine as mentioned can only be loaded with the pump all the way back. The gun will feed 38s and 357s just fine. It has a generous feed ramp and cases swell at the rear. Never had one blow but always a concern. Marlin levers are not so hard on brass. A 357 rifle is at short range much more powerful than a 223 in terms of impact. 2 liter bottles almost vaporize with hollow points at 1600fps. You can push light constructed bullets fast enough for them to melt in flight with a 357 rifle so soft points are better for these if using 125s over 1500fps. IMI was a bit late to the party in terms of law enforcement transitioning from 357mag to 9mm and 40. With their intended market drying up, they gave up. In today's market however, IMI would be able to sell these as an alternative to AR15s and AKs as a homestead defender, ranch knock about general purpose rifle. The 357 beyond 100 yards is a capable coyote wacker. Sadly, nobody makes a current and modern 357 like the IMI Timberwolf anymore. IMI also made some of these in 44mag. The 357 has a very heavy barrel in deference to the bigger 44 brother. I think only about 10,000 were imported to the states and maybe even Canada so they are extremely rare but do show up for sale from time to time. A nice rifle if you can find one at a reasonable price. It would be great if Remington could reintroduce their model 25 in 327 Federal and 357 Magnum. rc

July 8, 2018, 07:05 PM	#22
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	I have a pedersoli sharps 45/70 and the dealer for this rifle told me that the major complaint customers had on the lightening rifles was a cycling issue... and it is throw of the dice as to which rifle will have this problem. He did assure me that he has his own gunsmith that works on them should I ever decide to buy one and had those issue. Again everything I posted is base on heresay. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

July 10, 2018, 10:20 AM	#23
wachtelhund1 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2007 Location: pelican lake, WI Posts: 413	I have an American Western Arms in .45 Colt which functions fine. But I only shoot reloads, 230 grain round nose. I keep the COL to slightly less than recommend specs.