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Old June 24, 2022, 01:13 AM   #1
Alan0354
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Apply for CCW in California

I read online that it's hard to get a CCW in California. They said it is almost necessary to get a lawyer. Also I have to justify reason for conceal carry.

To me, the hardest part is reason for carrying a gun. Is a lot of senior Asians being attack a good enough reason to apply for conceal carry?
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Old June 25, 2022, 09:59 AM   #2
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On the day you posted the Supreme Court ruled that concealed carry permits must be issued on a Shall Issue basis. This removes the requirement for a justifying reason.
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Old June 25, 2022, 11:57 AM   #3
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On the day you posted the Supreme Court ruled that concealed carry permits must be issued on a Shall Issue basis. This removes the requirement for a justifying reason.
True, but that ruling specifically applies to New York. Obviously, by extension it should also apply to other states with similar justification clauses, but how that plays out in those other states will take some time to be determined.

California is already working on ways to get around the plain intent of the ruling, so IMHO you should expect California to enact new hurdles to carry licensure, and those new hurdles will have to be challenged in court before they can be declared to be in violation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan0354
To me, the hardest part is reason for carrying a gun. Is a lot of senior Asians being attack a good enough reason to apply for conceal carry?
My understanding is that some counties in California are almost "shall issue" -- you can use "self-defense" as the justification and you'll get your permit if you pass the background check. Other counties apparently require much more directed and specific threats against the applicant as an individual before they'll issue a permit. As to being a senior Asian, I don't know. Are you a senior Asian? If not, the answer doesn't affect you.
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Old June 25, 2022, 04:51 PM   #4
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I had a Calif CCW before i left the State for greener pastures. It is 100% dependent on the area of Calif you live in. I lived in San Bernardino county. They were easy to deal with and i put the reason i wanted a permit as “self defense”. No problem.

I worked in Los Angeles at the time and ran into LE there that had never even seen an actual permit.

When i left, Orange Co was starting to issue permits as well. Ive heard some of the Counties in northern Ca were open to issue as well.

So, geography of residence was the biggest factor.
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Old June 25, 2022, 05:45 PM   #5
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True, but that ruling specifically applies to New York. Obviously, by extension it should also apply to other states with similar justification clauses, but how that plays out in those other states will take some time to be determined.
The ruling applies to all subjective "May Issue" Schemes* that requires a "good cause" to obtain a permit. The same way Roe v Wade decriminalized abortion prior to the 3rd trimester in all states and Obergefell v. Hodges barred states from not allowing and recognizing gay marriage immediately after the rulings.

In essence, all states now have minimum standards and that's that for a CCW permit. XXX number of training hours, no criminal history, pay the fee, you get a permit. Gone are the days of having to justify your need for obtaining a permit, or the days of simply saying you are the relative of a certain politician. Meet the minimum standards and you get a permit.

*You are correct that California and others will play games. New York's governor has already come out looking to drastically expand the list of "sensitive areas." It is also true that concealed carry could likely be made entirely illegal in a state so long as another means of carry (like open carry) are available. At any rate, California's DOJ has acknowledged that they have to drop their subjective "proper or good cause" requirement on the permit applications.

https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releas...sponse-supreme

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...ision-00041740
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Old June 26, 2022, 12:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
True, but that ruling specifically applies to New York. Obviously, by extension it should also apply to other states with similar justification clauses, but how that plays out in those other states will take some time to be determined.

California is already working on ways to get around the plain intent of the ruling, so IMHO you should expect California to enact new hurdles to carry licensure, and those new hurdles will have to be challenged in court before they can be declared to be in violation.
The California Attorney General has already said that "good cause" is no longer needed. Now I have no doubt that the legislature will come up with as many roadblocks as they can dream up, but that particular one is out of the way.

https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status...021576/photo/1

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Old June 26, 2022, 01:21 PM   #7
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^^^ Follow natman's link and read the full document.

It appears that California is going to double down on requiring permit applicant's to prove that they are "of good moral character." So this is still going to be far short of "shall issue." In particular, read the last page of the document. The AG is telling sheriffs that they can (and should) investigate applicants' social media accounts. This is why I don't do Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or any of those platforms.
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Old June 26, 2022, 01:35 PM   #8
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I also have zero presence on social media (facebook, twitter, etc), i wonder if having no presence can be looked at negatively???
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Old June 27, 2022, 07:24 AM   #9
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^^^ Follow natman's link and read the full document.

It appears that California is going to double down on requiring permit applicant's to prove that they are "of good moral character." So this is still going to be far short of "shall issue." In particular, read the last page of the document. The AG is telling sheriffs that they can (and should) investigate applicants' social media accounts. This is why I don't do Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or any of those platforms.
But at least they've told us what our next target is.
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Old June 27, 2022, 10:58 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
I also have zero presence on social media (facebook, twitter, etc), i wonder if having no presence can be looked at negatively???
This forum is "social media", just not one of the larger platforms.
Different society perhaps.
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Old June 27, 2022, 05:35 PM   #11
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This forum is "social media", just not one of the larger platforms.
California apparently would agree with you. https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archive...le-v-lopez.htm

I take a narrower view. The California person challenging his sentence noted that: "The trial court required that the probationer provide [his probation officer with] all passwords to any social media sites, including but not limited to Facebook, Instagram, MocoSpace, MySpace, or anything similar. And shall submit said sites to search at any time with or without a warrant by a peace officer."

I don't regard this forum as being at all similar to Facebook, Instagram, or MySpace. And I've never heard of MocoSpace.

However, it also appears that Merriam-Webster agrees with you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...social%20media

Quote:
Definition of social media

: forms of electronic communication (such as websites for social networking and microblogging) through which users create online communities to share information, ideas, personal messages, and other content (such as videos)
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Old June 28, 2022, 08:31 AM   #12
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The California Attorney General has already said that "good cause" is no longer needed. Now I have no doubt that the legislature will come up with as many roadblocks as they can dream up, but that particular one is out of the way.
But, in the 2nd to last chapter they reference Riverside County Sheriff's department policy to screen permits applicants based on
Quote:
observance of fudiciary duty
and
Quote:
fiscal stability
Seems an awful lot like a 'poor people need not apply' litmus.
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Old June 28, 2022, 10:25 AM   #13
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You're Asian, right? Just put 'Anti-Asian Hate Crimes' on the reason section. You're in a woke State and the local governments will not deny it because it would mean publicity, media, & possible lawsuits - aka black eye for the locals.
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Old June 28, 2022, 10:41 AM   #14
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Seems an awful lot like a 'poor people need not apply' litmus.
The majority opinion authored by Thomas clearly derided subjective criteria for issuing CCW permits. California now trying to replace "proper cause" need for a CCW permit with a demonstration of "good moral character" sounds pretty subjective to me. In fact, the last two paragraphs of that document clearly lay out subjective criteria. One sentence even says that officials should determine on a "case by case" basis. That's almost the very definition of making a subjective judgment. If that guidance is followed, and if law abiding citizens are denied, I see that being challenged in the very near future, and based on the majority opinion in the NY case I see it being soundly ruled down. Quite possibly per curium.

Quote:
You're Asian, right? Just put 'Anti-Asian Hate Crimes' on the reason section.
He no longer has to provide a proper cause reason. That section will be removed.
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Old June 28, 2022, 11:32 AM   #15
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^^^
Ah, missed that. Thanks!

when "like" button?
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Old June 28, 2022, 05:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 5whiskey
The majority opinion authored by Thomas clearly derided subjective criteria for issuing CCW permits. California now trying to replace "proper cause" need for a CCW permit with a demonstration of "good moral character" sounds pretty subjective to me. In fact, the last two paragraphs of that document clearly lay out subjective criteria. One sentence even says that officials should determine on a "case by case" basis. That's almost the very definition of making a subjective judgment. If that guidance is followed, and if law abiding citizens are denied, I see that being challenged in the very near future, and based on the majority opinion in the NY case I see it being soundly ruled down. Quite possibly per curium.
Your reaction mirrors mine when I read the first reports of official statements coming out of California in the wake of the decision. It's clear (to me, at least) that California will continue to practice "may issue" as long as possible, all the while claiming to be in compliance with the ruling. Unfortunately, it will take another lawsuit and a lot of time and money to undo that.
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Old June 29, 2022, 08:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
True, but that ruling specifically applies to New York. Obviously, by extension it should also apply to other states with similar justification clauses, but how that plays out in those other states will take some time to be determined.

California is already working on ways to get around the plain intent of the ruling, so IMHO you should expect California to enact new hurdles to carry licensure, and those new hurdles will have to be challenged in court before they can be declared to be in violation.


My understanding is that some counties in California are almost "shall issue" -- you can use "self-defense" as the justification and you'll get your permit if you pass the background check. Other counties apparently require much more directed and specific threats against the applicant as an individual before they'll issue a permit. As to being a senior Asian, I don't know. Are you a senior Asian? If not, the answer doesn't affect you.
The thread has been moved and I just found this today.

Yes, I am a senior, 69, Asian.

Since Asians are being attacked a year or so ago, I have been practicing stick fight using my cane. It would be good if I can get a conceal carry permit.
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Old June 29, 2022, 09:47 PM   #18
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Alan, you can certainly apply. They can no longer use lack of "good cause" as a reason to deny you. The California AG's advisory letter appeared to "suggest" that they look hard at the "good moral character" part of their law, which has not [yet] been challenged in court. If you have no criminal charges or convictions and aren't delinquent on child support payments, there's a good chance you may get your permit.

Good luck, and please keep us informed how it goes.
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Old June 30, 2022, 06:23 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Alan0354 View Post
The thread has been moved and I just found this today.

Yes, I am a senior, 69, Asian.

Since Asians are being attacked a year or so ago, I have been practicing stick fight using my cane. It would be good if I can get a conceal carry permit.
I think I speak for many of us (and Aguila Blanca has already spoken) when I say, "Good luck!" And also as AB said, please keep us informed. I think there are a LOT of us who want to see how CA permits are working out right now.
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Old July 2, 2022, 02:21 AM   #20
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Alan , where do you live -what county ? Riverside is pretty much shall issue . it doesn't take much of a reason to get a permit there , San Diego has become much easier to get a CCW in the last couple years . Fresno and Orange county are pretty good with CCW . However the legislature just past something about conceal carry to make it harder or at least more cumbersome . Regardless in CA it's always been up to the county sheriff to issue the license and there are several counties in CA that are relatively easy to get a CCW in . The problem is that you must live in the county that issues the permit .

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2022...anti-gun-bills
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Originally Posted by From link above
Senate Bill 918, introduced by Senator Anthony Portantino (D-25), was amended to defy the recent Supreme Court ruling placing significant reforms on California's existing conceal carry laws. Some of the provisions include: significantly expanding gun-free zones, requiring signage for private businesses where you "can" carry, doubling training requirements, and maintaining the ability to do in-person interviews, psychiatric evaluations, and allowing "time place, and manner" restrictions on permits. *SB 918 will be heard in the Assembly Appropriations Committee on August 3.
https://calmatters.org/justice/crimi...ncealed-carry/
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Old July 3, 2022, 09:24 AM   #21
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To echo what the other's said, it really depends on your county. An attorney should definitely NOT be needed.

I used to have a CCW when I lived in California. I lived in a shall issue county and was very easy to get.

My official reason was "I own a truck and want to legally carry my pistol in the cab." They issued the permit with no other questions.
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Old July 3, 2022, 08:39 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Metal god View Post
Alan , where do you live -what county ? Riverside is pretty much shall issue . it doesn't take much of a reason to get a permit there , San Diego has become much easier to get a CCW in the last couple years . Fresno and Orange county are pretty good with CCW . However the legislature just past something about conceal carry to make it harder or at least more cumbersome . Regardless in CA it's always been up to the county sheriff to issue the license and there are several counties in CA that are relatively easy to get a CCW in . The problem is that you must live in the county that issues the permit .

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2022...anti-gun-bills


https://calmatters.org/justice/crimi...ncealed-carry/
I live in Santa Clara county in Silicon Valley.
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Old July 13, 2022, 07:33 AM   #23
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With CA I’d not be surprised if no presence was seen as negative.
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Old July 13, 2022, 10:49 AM   #24
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With CA I’d not be surprised if no presence was seen as negative.
"No presence"?

Do you mean not living in California, or do you mean not having any social media accounts?
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Old July 13, 2022, 12:39 PM   #25
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Do you mean not living in California, or do you mean not having any social media accounts?
I believe he's referring to social media presence, which some people today think means you're weird if you don't have one.

A couple of comment, for consideration...

In PRINCIPLE, I do not object to requiring "good moral character", but I strenuously object to the STATE deciding what that is, and isn't. And more specifically individual office holders in the state making those decisions.

I got a NY state pistol permit in 1975. This was NOT a concealed carry permit, it was the basic permit required just to possess a handgun at all, and also allowed open carry (such as while hunting).

The "good moral character" was a part of the requirements, and the state required THREE character references. (not family members). (also 5 sets of fingerprints and 4 passport size photographs...) And yes, people did talk to the references you listed. THEIR interviews were what was used to determine if you were of "good moral character", along with your public record. Wasn't a perfect system, but I think it was better than having the state set arbitrary standards.
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