Scope rings-mount question

Kurbsky · January 24, 2021, 05:41 AM

I need to mount my Tract Toric UHD 2X16-30 scope on my AR 10 Aero Precision rifle. If I plan to shoot at up tp 1,000 yards, can I mount it just on rings (.525" from the bottom of the ring to where ut meets the base) or do I need to mount it higher?

Shadow9mm · January 24, 2021, 08:50 PM

Need more info

Ok, so I just tried to look up that scope....Your numbers are off somewhere because that setup does not exist as I just went through all their scopes twice trying to find it

AR scopes 4-16x42
hunting scopes 2-10x42, 3-15x42, 3-15x50
long range(30mm tube) 4-20x50
extreme long range (34mm tube) 3.5-30x56

In general, no, rings and AR's don't go together well. The rail is the same height as your cheek weld. you have to get it up off the gun. Per google, in general for an AR platform you need approximately 1.4in rings, or ultra high.

Wanting to shoot out to 1000yds, you will probably want a mount with 10moa built in as you will most likely run out of scope adjustment due to bullet drop at that range. that is pretty much a 1 piece in the $100 ish range.

Kurbsky · January 25, 2021, 06:46 PM

Thank you for looking into this! My apologies for typing wrong info from the Tract site. I pulled the actual items from the box and the scope is Toric Ultra HD 3-15X50, rimgs are Warne 502GR 1 inch High. Toric Customer Service assured me that the scope and rings are right for the rifle. I would hate to throw away the rings. Can I bring the scope higher using some platform between the rail and the rings? Can I even shoot 1000 yards with this hunting scope?

Shadow9mm · January 25, 2021, 07:10 PM

yes you can, but it may be challenging. The scope only has 50moa of adjustment total. thats 25 up and 25 down. You will probably lose some with zeroing.

Assuming good ammo, 168g hornady eldm, bc .523, muzzle 2840fps, with a 100yd zero (may or may not work for your needs) you will have approximately 30.8moa of drop at 1000yds. You will not have enough moa to adjust and will have to hold over. Hopefully you got the scope with the BCD reticle and can use that.

You will need to either have and use the BDC reticle in the scope, or buy a riser with probably 20moa built in...

heres something cheap with 20moa built in and it would get you that extra 1/2in... may or may not fit your needs but something like this is what I would be looking for...

https://www.amazon.com/Canted-Tapere.../dp/B01CKIZ7CA

Kurbsky · January 25, 2021, 07:51 PM

That,s very helpful! Thanks. If I am correct, the drop should not be an issue for my 6.5 creedmoor rifle. It may be for .308. I am totally ignorant about reticles. The only thing I noticed was that my M1A's Gen 1 scope that came with rifle in 1999 or so has noticeably more lines.It looks like I will need to buy the riser that you kindly recommended.

Kurbsky · January 25, 2021, 08:09 PM

Actually, I just checked and it is BDC reticle. I guess I will just have to learn how to use it. I see 4 lines only there.

Shadow9mm · January 27, 2021, 10:56 AM

they are probably set for 308 bullet drop. the manual should tell you how far they are. you could adjust to use them if they are close to what you need for drop.

Kurbsky · January 30, 2021, 02:23 PM

I spoke to Tract Pptics and they will replace the rings by either a 20 MOA mount (is out of stock now but if they find one, it will allow me to shoot to 1,000 yards) or another mount that will allow me to shoot up to 800 yards. It may be a better option than the riser. I feel that 800 may be ok for AR10 and that hunting scope. For 1,000 - 1,200 I may want to start a new project in the future like a 300 Win Mag bolt action rifle with a more expensive military scope with a proper reticle. With this scope for AR-10 I will need to figure out how far it should be from my eye and the bore sightinf - 100 or 200 yards.

Kurbsky · February 1, 2021, 07:55 PM

I am thinking of a 1.41 inch elevation mount with the goal of shooting to up to 800 yards. I don't think shooting 1,000 yards with 22" barrel AR10 6.5 creedmoor makes a lot of practical sense. Even 800 yards may be pushing it. Will keep my fingers crossed that this 1.41 inch mount works for that range. Unless someone responds, this will be my last post on this topic.

Shadow9mm · February 1, 2021, 08:20 PM

Push it don't give up. You are almost there. 6.5 is easily a 1000yd cartridge. given the right ammo/bullet it will reach out to 1500yds and beyond. Don't short change yourself, you will regret it. I know its been a fight for you trying to decide on caliber and components and actually getting stuff during the shortage. It will be worth the extra work and wait. You will always regret not finishing the project and what it would have been. Been there, done that. Make mistakes, learn, progress, meet your goal...

I am currently working on a budget bolt gun to get me out to 1000yds. a TC Compass. Have had problems with a rough barrel. Poor luck working up loads moa and a half so far... picked a poor optic with BDC instead of moa hashes. got a 10moa rail, will probably need to get a 20moa rail before I am done. had to get a trigger mod kit because the trigger was too heavy. Even with all this I am sure I will make more mistakes. And on top of that, I don't even have a place to shoot 1000yds. I have 100yds, that is 1hr away. I have 500yds that is 2hr 15min away... My best bet is a friend of a friends place that's a 14hr drive away to hopefully shoot it but it probably wont be until 2022 unless things really come together for me this spring.

Hang in there, Sometimes its a struggle. But if the goal is worth it, you just gotta keep pushing forwards one step at a time.

Kurbsky · February 1, 2021, 09:40 PM

Thank you for encouragement. I don't have to give up. I can shoot the AR-10 I just assemled to up to 600-800 yards and then but a Tikka Tac precision rifle to shoot past 1,000 yards. Bolt action is inherently more accurate. Not by much but at that distance the difference between .3-.5 MOA may become huge. And I know what you mean by giving up. I gave up long time ago on Walther P5 that I really wanted as my 1st gun, bought a cheap Beretta in .380 caliber (sold that piece of junk later at a loss together with Beretta Cougar in .45 ACP) - I regret it to this day. Yes, I still can afford a P5... but never a brand new P5. They don't make them anymore.

Shadow9mm · February 4, 2021, 06:17 PM

I still think the AR 10 would be good out to 1000. Semi autos can be less accurate, but also can be pretty close. I would expect the gun would very well shoot 1 moa or less with good ammo. That's 10in at 1000yds, more than enough.

I would say, get the rifle set up. see how accurate it is. If it is holding around 1MOA or better, I would upgrade the mount and glass.

Granted the Tikka might be a better gun. but the AR should do it with minimal problems.

Kurbsky · February 14, 2021, 02:26 PM

You may be right about .308 in which I only have a Springfield M1A. Malaysian military surplus ammo was really cheap in "normal times" and accuracy was very good at 300 yards for that rifle (I did a factory glass bedding though). I checked the ballistic charts of 6.5 creedmoor vs .308 and they don't really look that much different, especially up to 600 yards which I think is the max for most people. So even if I buy a Tikka Tac later, I may just go for the 308 and put a nice scope with a military, not hunting reticle plus a proper mount.

Shadow9mm · February 14, 2021, 09:20 PM

Depends on how you compare things. 6.5 creedmore has a better selection of high bc bullets. High bc's mean more retained velocity, and less wind drift.

For example, if you look at the Hornady ELD-M. Best BC loads from Hornady
.308 168g, BC .523 2700fps, at 1000yds 100yd zero, 1305fps, -363.1in drop, 635 ftlb
.264, 147g, BC .697 2965fps, at 1000yds 100yd zero, 1771fps, -248.1in drop, 1024 ft lb

These were the 2 best factory loads I could find quickly.
You save 115in of drop and gain 389ftlb of energy with 6.5 vs 308.

If I was picking a deer rifle/long range target rifle I would go 6.5 creedmore. In my opinion its only limitations are for larger game. It was designed to get way out there for long range matches. It does have a big benefit there in my opinion.

January 24, 2021, 05:41 AM	#1
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	Scope rings-mount question I need to mount my Tract Toric UHD 2X16-30 scope on my AR 10 Aero Precision rifle. If I plan to shoot at up tp 1,000 yards, can I mount it just on rings (.525" from the bottom of the ring to where ut meets the base) or do I need to mount it higher?

January 24, 2021, 08:50 PM	#2
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Need more info Ok, so I just tried to look up that scope....Your numbers are off somewhere because that setup does not exist as I just went through all their scopes twice trying to find it AR scopes 4-16x42 hunting scopes 2-10x42, 3-15x42, 3-15x50 long range(30mm tube) 4-20x50 extreme long range (34mm tube) 3.5-30x56 In general, no, rings and AR's don't go together well. The rail is the same height as your cheek weld. you have to get it up off the gun. Per google, in general for an AR platform you need approximately 1.4in rings, or ultra high. Wanting to shoot out to 1000yds, you will probably want a mount with 10moa built in as you will most likely run out of scope adjustment due to bullet drop at that range. that is pretty much a 1 piece in the $100 ish range. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 25, 2021, 07:10 PM	#4
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	yes you can, but it may be challenging. The scope only has 50moa of adjustment total. thats 25 up and 25 down. You will probably lose some with zeroing. Assuming good ammo, 168g hornady eldm, bc .523, muzzle 2840fps, with a 100yd zero (may or may not work for your needs) you will have approximately 30.8moa of drop at 1000yds. You will not have enough moa to adjust and will have to hold over. Hopefully you got the scope with the BCD reticle and can use that. You will need to either have and use the BDC reticle in the scope, or buy a riser with probably 20moa built in... heres something cheap with 20moa built in and it would get you that extra 1/2in... may or may not fit your needs but something like this is what I would be looking for... https://www.amazon.com/Canted-Tapere.../dp/B01CKIZ7CA __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 27, 2021, 10:56 AM	#7
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	they are probably set for 308 bullet drop. the manual should tell you how far they are. you could adjust to use them if they are close to what you need for drop. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

February 1, 2021, 08:20 PM	#10
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Push it don't give up. You are almost there. 6.5 is easily a 1000yd cartridge. given the right ammo/bullet it will reach out to 1500yds and beyond. Don't short change yourself, you will regret it. I know its been a fight for you trying to decide on caliber and components and actually getting stuff during the shortage. It will be worth the extra work and wait. You will always regret not finishing the project and what it would have been. Been there, done that. Make mistakes, learn, progress, meet your goal... I am currently working on a budget bolt gun to get me out to 1000yds. a TC Compass. Have had problems with a rough barrel. Poor luck working up loads moa and a half so far... picked a poor optic with BDC instead of moa hashes. got a 10moa rail, will probably need to get a 20moa rail before I am done. had to get a trigger mod kit because the trigger was too heavy. Even with all this I am sure I will make more mistakes. And on top of that, I don't even have a place to shoot 1000yds. I have 100yds, that is 1hr away. I have 500yds that is 2hr 15min away... My best bet is a friend of a friends place that's a 14hr drive away to hopefully shoot it but it probably wont be until 2022 unless things really come together for me this spring. Hang in there, Sometimes its a struggle. But if the goal is worth it, you just gotta keep pushing forwards one step at a time. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

January 25, 2021, 06:46 PM	#3
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	Thank you for looking into this! My apologies for typing wrong info from the Tract site. I pulled the actual items from the box and the scope is Toric Ultra HD 3-15X50, rimgs are Warne 502GR 1 inch High. Toric Customer Service assured me that the scope and rings are right for the rifle. I would hate to throw away the rings. Can I bring the scope higher using some platform between the rail and the rings? Can I even shoot 1000 yards with this hunting scope?

January 25, 2021, 07:51 PM	#5
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	That,s very helpful! Thanks. If I am correct, the drop should not be an issue for my 6.5 creedmoor rifle. It may be for .308. I am totally ignorant about reticles. The only thing I noticed was that my M1A's Gen 1 scope that came with rifle in 1999 or so has noticeably more lines.It looks like I will need to buy the riser that you kindly recommended.

January 25, 2021, 08:09 PM	#6
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	Actually, I just checked and it is BDC reticle. I guess I will just have to learn how to use it. I see 4 lines only there.

January 30, 2021, 02:23 PM	#8
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	I spoke to Tract Pptics and they will replace the rings by either a 20 MOA mount (is out of stock now but if they find one, it will allow me to shoot to 1,000 yards) or another mount that will allow me to shoot up to 800 yards. It may be a better option than the riser. I feel that 800 may be ok for AR10 and that hunting scope. For 1,000 - 1,200 I may want to start a new project in the future like a 300 Win Mag bolt action rifle with a more expensive military scope with a proper reticle. With this scope for AR-10 I will need to figure out how far it should be from my eye and the bore sightinf - 100 or 200 yards.

February 1, 2021, 07:55 PM	#9
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	I am thinking of a 1.41 inch elevation mount with the goal of shooting to up to 800 yards. I don't think shooting 1,000 yards with 22" barrel AR10 6.5 creedmoor makes a lot of practical sense. Even 800 yards may be pushing it. Will keep my fingers crossed that this 1.41 inch mount works for that range. Unless someone responds, this will be my last post on this topic.

February 1, 2021, 09:40 PM	#11
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	Thank you for encouragement. I don't have to give up. I can shoot the AR-10 I just assemled to up to 600-800 yards and then but a Tikka Tac precision rifle to shoot past 1,000 yards. Bolt action is inherently more accurate. Not by much but at that distance the difference between .3-.5 MOA may become huge. And I know what you mean by giving up. I gave up long time ago on Walther P5 that I really wanted as my 1st gun, bought a cheap Beretta in .380 caliber (sold that piece of junk later at a loss together with Beretta Cougar in .45 ACP) - I regret it to this day. Yes, I still can afford a P5... but never a brand new P5. They don't make them anymore.

February 4, 2021, 06:17 PM	#12
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	I still think the AR 10 would be good out to 1000. Semi autos can be less accurate, but also can be pretty close. I would expect the gun would very well shoot 1 moa or less with good ammo. That's 10in at 1000yds, more than enough. I would say, get the rifle set up. see how accurate it is. If it is holding around 1MOA or better, I would upgrade the mount and glass. Granted the Tikka might be a better gun. but the AR should do it with minimal problems. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

February 14, 2021, 02:26 PM	#13
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	You may be right about .308 in which I only have a Springfield M1A. Malaysian military surplus ammo was really cheap in "normal times" and accuracy was very good at 300 yards for that rifle (I did a factory glass bedding though). I checked the ballistic charts of 6.5 creedmoor vs .308 and they don't really look that much different, especially up to 600 yards which I think is the max for most people. So even if I buy a Tikka Tac later, I may just go for the 308 and put a nice scope with a military, not hunting reticle plus a proper mount.

February 14, 2021, 09:20 PM	#14
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Depends on how you compare things. 6.5 creedmore has a better selection of high bc bullets. High bc's mean more retained velocity, and less wind drift. For example, if you look at the Hornady ELD-M. Best BC loads from Hornady .308 168g, BC .523 2700fps, at 1000yds 100yd zero, 1305fps, -363.1in drop, 635 ftlb .264, 147g, BC .697 2965fps, at 1000yds 100yd zero, 1771fps, -248.1in drop, 1024 ft lb These were the 2 best factory loads I could find quickly. You save 115in of drop and gain 389ftlb of energy with 6.5 vs 308. If I was picking a deer rifle/long range target rifle I would go 6.5 creedmore. In my opinion its only limitations are for larger game. It was designed to get way out there for long range matches. It does have a big benefit there in my opinion. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.