Why do the reloads sound different?

BerettaTN · January 23, 2012, 09:01 PM

Here is a range report from this past weekend that has resulted in some head scratching. First, I am fairly new to reloading. I took 100 reloaded 9mm rounds and 100 .40 S&W reloads to the range. All of the 9mm rounds and many of the .40 S&W rounds sounded different than factory rounds. While none of them were squibs, they sound underpowered. According to my research, both of the rounds should be pretty close to maximum charge so they should not sound weak. The powder I am using is Accurate #2. So my question is why do they sound weak? I question the crimp situation. I have a taper crimp die on the way but I have only been using a roll crimp die to remove the flare made by the expander die. I have been taking the case mouth back straight and not really doing any crimp. The Hornady book says little or no crimp. Without conducting further tests, I am wondering if the lack of a tight crimp is causing insufficient pressure to build up thus resulting in low power. So those of you with lots of reloading experience, am I on the right track here? What else could cause these things to sound so weak?

arch308 · January 23, 2012, 09:15 PM

The 40 & 9mm cases headspace on the case mouth so a heavy crimp is not a good idea. I suggest you try a different powder if the sound is a true concern. I might ask how well your reloads shot. Were they as accurate as your usual brand & did they function the guns action well. To be honest that is all I would worry about except to chronograph a few to be sure velocity was ok.

BerettaTN · January 23, 2012, 09:20 PM

Don't have any means of checking the velocity....yet. I did not notice any major accuracy issues. I did notice that at least one round looked like it went through the paper sideways. One of the things that really makes me wonder is why I would get a .40 S&W round that souned like it was at full volume from time to time and the rest were not. Like I mentioned in the OP....all of the 9mm rounds sounded weak and SOME of the .40's sounded weak. I am very confident that the powder charge is consistent. I have good equipment and spot check the powder measurement every 10 or 20 cases. No issues whatsoever with these rounds working the action. There were no FTE's, no failures to lock back, no stove pipes. Every round worked all weapons just fine. They just don't sound right or consistent.

jr05 · January 23, 2012, 09:36 PM

What is the variation in OAL?

The crimp should have very little to do with the pressure of the round, assuming you are just removing the slight bell as stated. The neck tension is from the sizing die and bullet seating. I would check a variation in OAL, as well as neck tension. When you cycle some dummy rounds (no powder or primer but follow the die sequence and put bullets in) through the gun a few times, measure the OAL before and after. Maybe you are getting some setback with the louder sounding rounds, and the low percussion is the normal sound for the round?

Give us some more information as far as OAL, charge volume, etc.

BerettaTN · January 23, 2012, 09:44 PM

Charge info is as follows:

4.5 gr of AA#2 pushing the 9mm.......124 gr. FP
5.5 gr of AA#2 pushing the .40.......180 gr. FMJ

I was also shooting some factory ammo and this sounds weak compared to factory ammo with the exception of the occasional .40 that sounded just like the factory ammo. If anything, I was worried about my COL being too tight rather than too loose. There are not any of the 9mm rounds left to experiment but I still have about 30 rounds of the .40. COL on those is about dead on what is called for in the book which is 1.125".

BerettaTN · January 23, 2012, 09:46 PM

I also compared the crimp on some factory ammo. I am about .001 to .002 fatter than factory ammo so my crimp is only 1 or 2 thousandths looser (I know that is not a real word) than what Hornady or Remington are producing at the factory.

warbirdlover · January 23, 2012, 10:46 PM

When I was first starting out reloading (.243) I had some "compacted" loads that sounded like a burst of air instead of a bang. The case necks were splitting, the primers and bases flattened. I had WAY to much pressure going. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and shot off the primers and started over again paying more heed to the "starting loads"....

Misssissippi Dave · January 23, 2012, 11:17 PM

At least for the 9 mm loads. AA2 is a fast burning powder. It is normally used for lighter loads. I would suggest going to a slower burning powder like AA5 or AA7. Since you are pushing them pretty hard now with AA2, you won't be getting the speed a slower powder might give you without excessive pressure. The main difference in sound might be you are loading sub-sonic loads and are missing the sonic boom you get going a bit faster. You can also go with a lighter bullet to get the speed over 1100 fps to get the noise you are looking for. Personally I prefer accurate over speed.

snuffy · January 24, 2012, 01:14 AM

Several people have told you that crimp has NOTHING to do with how well powder burns in semi-auto ammo. Crimp should be no more than what you measured from the factory ammo, and is only to take the belling out of the case mouth.

Where did you get roll crimpers for 9mm and 40 S&W? most if not all standard dies have taper crimpers built into the seater dies.

As Dave said, AA-#2 is a very fast powder for 9mm. It's all done burning before the bullet is half way down the barrel, no pressure left to produce the bang you're used to. Get some slower powder like power pistol or AA-#5 or 7.

1SOW · January 24, 2012, 02:45 AM

BerettaTN,
Do not use a roll crimp on a straight wall pistol case. like 9mm, 40 S&W, 45acp
A roll crimp is for a bullet with a canelure/groove to roll the casemouth into and used in revolvers that seat on the case "head".
Straight wall cases use the case "mouth" to stop the cartridge at the chamber seat when fed into the chamber.
If you dont have a taper crimp die, you can try seating the bullet with no belling until your taper crimp gets here.. If it's a jacketed bullet, it'll probably seat without belling the case mouth.
For 9mm the cartridge case mouth with a proper taper crimp, should measure approximately .377" -.378 at the case mouth.

A roll crimp on a jacketed bullet can let the cartridge go too deep into the chamber's cone, may contact the rifling and can cause pressure spikes. It also can damage the bullet jacket and cause poor accuracy. It is potentially dangerous.

Alliant #2 is a very high pressure fast-burning powder. It can be used for 9mm and 40cal, but runs at VERY high case pressures as shown in Alliants reload data. WELL Over 340000 cup for both calibers, especially near max loads like yours.. That may be why it sounds different. I've used AA #5, but had no sound difference.

mumbo719 · January 24, 2012, 04:09 AM

If you like loud give Power Pistol a try

.

It's an excellent powder for the 9mm & .40.

BerettaTN · January 24, 2012, 04:20 AM

To answer some of the questions above, I am aware the difference between the roll crimp and the taper crimp and know which one to use where. Until recently, the Hornady die sets even for semi-auto calibers came with a roll crimp/bullet seater die. It has only been recently that Hornady includes a taper crimp die in these sets. Why? That would be a mystery to me because like you folks have said, you really don't need a roll crimp die in a semi-auto. I was very careful to use the die only to remove the bell from the case mouth and my cases are almost exact compared to factory cases in terms of the necessary edge for head spacing. The only exception is the .001 or .002 that I noted above.

Now you might be on to something with regards to the speed of the powder burning. I was aware that AA#2 is very fast burning. So you are saying that the powder is burning away before the bullet has a chance to get up to speed to cause the "sonic boom"........correct? That would explain why these sound more like squibs than they should?

I checked some of the cases of the first few rounds and find no signs of over pressure.

jimkim · January 24, 2012, 07:01 AM

I think if you try AA#7 with those cartridges, you'll be quite pleased. It meters very well, and I've gotten good results with it in everything I've tried. I've used it in 38 special, 357 mag, 9mm, 40 S&W, 44 special, 44 mag, and 45 acp.

BerettaTN · January 24, 2012, 07:47 AM

Got plenty of AA#7 around and I am absolutely not married to Accurate #2. It is however important to me to gain some understanding of why I am hearing what I am hearing. Not sure that reloading is a good place for "I don't know why that is happening so I'll just ignore it and hope it goes away."

Misssissippi Dave · January 24, 2012, 08:17 AM

As a general rule I use faster powders with lighter bullets and slower powder with heavier bullets. The only time I use fast powder and heavier bullets is when I'm trying to make soft shooting loads. These I use for either new shooters or when I want to be able to shoot all day long and not feel any worse for wear.

I only use fast powders for low to mid range loads and not upper level because of possible pressure problems. AA5 I load mid range to upper levels. AA7 I also load mid range to upper levels but tend to stay closer to the upper end.

Since you do have some AA7, try working up some loads with it and you should be happy with the results. Pistol Powder tend to have a nice fire ball effect when loaded toward the upper levels. It is interesting shooting those in low light and evening shoots. AA2, AA5 and AA7 measure well in my measure. Another powder you can use is WSF and it measures well too. WST is much faster then WSF and is used for light loads. WSF is slower burning and you get good results with it for the upper end.

bossman · January 24, 2012, 08:29 AM

You really shouldn't be able to tell the difference from a reload or factory, unless you intended to make a light load. Sounds like crimping and or powder issue. Mostly I'd go with the crimping issue. Could be a bad batch of powder but unless it's really old I'd doubt it.

Quote:

Not sure that reloading is a good place for "I don't know why that is happening so I'll just ignore it and hope it goes away."

I agree with that statement. I think working on that crimp will soon have you on your way to some good sounding loads.

jimkim · January 24, 2012, 09:57 AM

Try pulling a few bullets and weighing the powder. If you aren't weighing each charge you might have some light loads.

Another reason they might sound different is because they are different. Different powders burn at different rates. This effects both the sound and muzzle flash. A faster burning powder if loaded right will not be as loud if you get a full burn in the first inch or two of barrel. I have a 318gr 44 mag load that uses Red Dot, and it isn't load at all compared to the ones I load with IMR-4227. They have about the same velocity(950-1000fps), but you can hear a difference.

SL1 · January 24, 2012, 10:19 AM

Expanding a little on what Jimkim wrote:

Fast burning powders use smaller charge weights than slow burning powders to keep the pressure peaks below the SAAMI limit, so the fast-burning powders produce less gas to actually drive the bullet down the barrel. That means that, when the bullet base exits the barrel, the gas from a fast powder has expanded more than the gas from a slow powder, making the pressure in the gas lower. It is the gas pressure at the muzzle that creates the muzzle blast. SO, fast powders typically create less muzzle blast (and bullet velocity) than slow powders when max charges of each are used for each.

With respect to why SOME of the .40s seemed to have louder muzzle blast, that suggests that some where at higher pressure:

"Spot" checking your powder charge weights is not guarantee that a few are not over-weight, so I would suggest weighing ALL of your charges until you find the answer.

Another possibility is that some of the bullets are being "set-back" into the case when they are automatically cycled into the chamber by a fired round. If that is the situation, it is dangerous. One thing to check for is how easily the bullets can be pushed back into the case. Again, you should check ALL of the rounds, since spot checking isn't effecteive when only a few exhibit the phenomenon at issue. It is especially important if you are using "range brass" where you don't know the history of each case. Another possibility is that trying to use a roll crimp die to make a taper crimp MIGHT be slightly bulging your cases and loosening the bullets on SOME rounds where the case length is sligtly longer than the average.

SL1

BerettaTN · January 24, 2012, 11:52 AM

Thanks for the advice and keep those suggestions coming. I have some lighter bullets with AA#2 already made up. I am gonna take both to the range and see if I can hear any difference. I did not have the ammo with the lighter bullets with me last time. I also have some already assembled with AA#7 but I have not shot those in awhile. We'll take those to the range and make sure they sound right. Given what I am reading above, it sounds like AA#2 is a poor choice for heavy bullets at high speed.

SL1 · January 24, 2012, 01:25 PM

"...it sounds like AA#2 is a poor choice for heavy bullets at high speed."

That is correct.

Another possibility is that the powder is outside its pressure range for consistency, and you are getting pressure spikes from irratic burning. I can't say for your particular load, because I don't use AA#2 nor load 9mm. Maybe others can offer some experience with your load.

SL1

BerettaTN · January 28, 2012, 05:49 PM

Well it was back to the range today for a little more experimenting. Not much doubt in my mind at this point that the problem here is powder that is burning too fast for the bullet it was trying to push. So kudos to those that analyzed the problem and gave me the solution. Many thanks for sharing your knowledge. I loaded a few dozen rounds using the lighter bullet (115gr.) with Accurate #2 and also test fired a few .40 cal. rounds. The .40's were 155gr. bullets also using Accurate #2. With the lighter bullets, the rounds sounded as they should. I also tried a little Accurate #7 with the 155gr. in the .40 cal. I really like that round. It is very snappy and shoots well in my Sig P226 but is a little dirty. If Midway will ever send me the Accurate #5 and the Power Pistol that I ordered, we'll do a little experimenting with that as well.

Misssissippi Dave · January 28, 2012, 09:42 PM

When I find a load that works well but is dirty I do the following:

Check load data to see if I can safely increase the amount of powder.
Normally I find the middle of the max and min loads give me accurate loads. Just where in the middle is a matter of testing. Often I am .4 to .6 grains below the max amount.

If I find I still can go up say .4 grains before I hit the max recommended load I will try .1 and .2 grains more in my test loads. When I get close to the max recommended amount of powder and it is still not doing what I expect it to do, it is time to go to a slower burning powder and start low and work my way up again. This method works for me loading pistol ammo. I do like softer shooting rounds so I tend to use faster burning powders. I found WST, W231 and AA5 work for what I want them to do. WST and AA5 were the cleanest burning powders of the 3.

Remember to keep good notes of what you are loading. Include what works and what you have tried that doesn't as well. It will come in handy and prevent mistakes. It will prevent having to work up loads all over again to find what it was you once loaded and would like to do again down the road.

January 23, 2012, 09:01 PM	#1
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	Why do the reloads sound different? Here is a range report from this past weekend that has resulted in some head scratching. First, I am fairly new to reloading. I took 100 reloaded 9mm rounds and 100 .40 S&W reloads to the range. All of the 9mm rounds and many of the .40 S&W rounds sounded different than factory rounds. While none of them were squibs, they sound underpowered. According to my research, both of the rounds should be pretty close to maximum charge so they should not sound weak. The powder I am using is Accurate #2. So my question is why do they sound weak? I question the crimp situation. I have a taper crimp die on the way but I have only been using a roll crimp die to remove the flare made by the expander die. I have been taking the case mouth back straight and not really doing any crimp. The Hornady book says little or no crimp. Without conducting further tests, I am wondering if the lack of a tight crimp is causing insufficient pressure to build up thus resulting in low power. So those of you with lots of reloading experience, am I on the right track here? What else could cause these things to sound so weak?

January 24, 2012, 01:14 AM	#9
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Several people have told you that crimp has NOTHING to do with how well powder burns in semi-auto ammo. Crimp should be no more than what you measured from the factory ammo, and is only to take the belling out of the case mouth. Where did you get roll crimpers for 9mm and 40 S&W? most if not all standard dies have taper crimpers built into the seater dies. As Dave said, AA-#2 is a very fast powder for 9mm. It's all done burning before the bullet is half way down the barrel, no pressure left to produce the bang you're used to. Get some slower powder like power pistol or AA-#5 or 7. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

January 24, 2012, 02:45 AM	#10
1SOW Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: South TX Posts: 269	BerettaTN, Do not use a roll crimp on a straight wall pistol case. like 9mm, 40 S&W, 45acp A roll crimp is for a bullet with a canelure/groove to roll the casemouth into and used in revolvers that seat on the case "head". Straight wall cases use the case "mouth" to stop the cartridge at the chamber seat when fed into the chamber. If you dont have a taper crimp die, you can try seating the bullet with no belling until your taper crimp gets here.. If it's a jacketed bullet, it'll probably seat without belling the case mouth. For 9mm the cartridge case mouth with a proper taper crimp, should measure approximately .377" -.378 at the case mouth. A roll crimp on a jacketed bullet can let the cartridge go too deep into the chamber's cone, may contact the rifling and can cause pressure spikes. It also can damage the bullet jacket and cause poor accuracy. It is potentially dangerous. Alliant #2 is a very high pressure fast-burning powder. It can be used for 9mm and 40cal, but runs at VERY high case pressures as shown in Alliants reload data. WELL Over 340000 cup for both calibers, especially near max loads like yours.. That may be why it sounds different. I've used AA #5, but had no sound difference. Last edited by 1SOW; January 24, 2012 at 03:13 AM.

January 24, 2012, 07:01 AM	#13
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	I think if you try AA#7 with those cartridges, you'll be quite pleased. It meters very well, and I've gotten good results with it in everything I've tried. I've used it in 38 special, 357 mag, 9mm, 40 S&W, 44 special, 44 mag, and 45 acp. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

January 24, 2012, 09:57 AM	#17
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	Try pulling a few bullets and weighing the powder. If you aren't weighing each charge you might have some light loads. Another reason they might sound different is because they are different. Different powders burn at different rates. This effects both the sound and muzzle flash. A faster burning powder if loaded right will not be as loud if you get a full burn in the first inch or two of barrel. I have a 318gr 44 mag load that uses Red Dot, and it isn't load at all compared to the ones I load with IMR-4227. They have about the same velocity(950-1000fps), but you can hear a difference. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

January 23, 2012, 09:15 PM	#2
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	The 40 & 9mm cases headspace on the case mouth so a heavy crimp is not a good idea. I suggest you try a different powder if the sound is a true concern. I might ask how well your reloads shot. Were they as accurate as your usual brand & did they function the guns action well. To be honest that is all I would worry about except to chronograph a few to be sure velocity was ok.

January 23, 2012, 09:20 PM	#3
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	Don't have any means of checking the velocity....yet. I did not notice any major accuracy issues. I did notice that at least one round looked like it went through the paper sideways. One of the things that really makes me wonder is why I would get a .40 S&W round that souned like it was at full volume from time to time and the rest were not. Like I mentioned in the OP....all of the 9mm rounds sounded weak and SOME of the .40's sounded weak. I am very confident that the powder charge is consistent. I have good equipment and spot check the powder measurement every 10 or 20 cases. No issues whatsoever with these rounds working the action. There were no FTE's, no failures to lock back, no stove pipes. Every round worked all weapons just fine. They just don't sound right or consistent.

January 23, 2012, 09:36 PM	#4
jr05 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2006 Location: NH Posts: 145	What is the variation in OAL? The crimp should have very little to do with the pressure of the round, assuming you are just removing the slight bell as stated. The neck tension is from the sizing die and bullet seating. I would check a variation in OAL, as well as neck tension. When you cycle some dummy rounds (no powder or primer but follow the die sequence and put bullets in) through the gun a few times, measure the OAL before and after. Maybe you are getting some setback with the louder sounding rounds, and the low percussion is the normal sound for the round? Give us some more information as far as OAL, charge volume, etc.

January 23, 2012, 09:44 PM	#5
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	Charge info is as follows: 4.5 gr of AA#2 pushing the 9mm.......124 gr. FP 5.5 gr of AA#2 pushing the .40.......180 gr. FMJ I was also shooting some factory ammo and this sounds weak compared to factory ammo with the exception of the occasional .40 that sounded just like the factory ammo. If anything, I was worried about my COL being too tight rather than too loose. There are not any of the 9mm rounds left to experiment but I still have about 30 rounds of the .40. COL on those is about dead on what is called for in the book which is 1.125".

January 23, 2012, 09:46 PM	#6
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	I also compared the crimp on some factory ammo. I am about .001 to .002 fatter than factory ammo so my crimp is only 1 or 2 thousandths looser (I know that is not a real word) than what Hornady or Remington are producing at the factory.

January 23, 2012, 10:46 PM	#7
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	When I was first starting out reloading (.243) I had some "compacted" loads that sounded like a burst of air instead of a bang. The case necks were splitting, the primers and bases flattened. I had WAY to much pressure going. I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder and shot off the primers and started over again paying more heed to the "starting loads"....

January 23, 2012, 11:17 PM	#8
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	At least for the 9 mm loads. AA2 is a fast burning powder. It is normally used for lighter loads. I would suggest going to a slower burning powder like AA5 or AA7. Since you are pushing them pretty hard now with AA2, you won't be getting the speed a slower powder might give you without excessive pressure. The main difference in sound might be you are loading sub-sonic loads and are missing the sonic boom you get going a bit faster. You can also go with a lighter bullet to get the speed over 1100 fps to get the noise you are looking for. Personally I prefer accurate over speed.

January 24, 2012, 04:09 AM	#11
mumbo719 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2008 Location: Tampa Bay, FL. Posts: 346	If you like loud give Power Pistol a try . It's an excellent powder for the 9mm & .40.

January 24, 2012, 04:20 AM	#12
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	To answer some of the questions above, I am aware the difference between the roll crimp and the taper crimp and know which one to use where. Until recently, the Hornady die sets even for semi-auto calibers came with a roll crimp/bullet seater die. It has only been recently that Hornady includes a taper crimp die in these sets. Why? That would be a mystery to me because like you folks have said, you really don't need a roll crimp die in a semi-auto. I was very careful to use the die only to remove the bell from the case mouth and my cases are almost exact compared to factory cases in terms of the necessary edge for head spacing. The only exception is the .001 or .002 that I noted above. Now you might be on to something with regards to the speed of the powder burning. I was aware that AA#2 is very fast burning. So you are saying that the powder is burning away before the bullet has a chance to get up to speed to cause the "sonic boom"........correct? That would explain why these sound more like squibs than they should? I checked some of the cases of the first few rounds and find no signs of over pressure.

January 24, 2012, 07:47 AM	#14
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	Got plenty of AA#7 around and I am absolutely not married to Accurate #2. It is however important to me to gain some understanding of why I am hearing what I am hearing. Not sure that reloading is a good place for "I don't know why that is happening so I'll just ignore it and hope it goes away."

January 24, 2012, 08:17 AM	#15
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	As a general rule I use faster powders with lighter bullets and slower powder with heavier bullets. The only time I use fast powder and heavier bullets is when I'm trying to make soft shooting loads. These I use for either new shooters or when I want to be able to shoot all day long and not feel any worse for wear. I only use fast powders for low to mid range loads and not upper level because of possible pressure problems. AA5 I load mid range to upper levels. AA7 I also load mid range to upper levels but tend to stay closer to the upper end. Since you do have some AA7, try working up some loads with it and you should be happy with the results. Pistol Powder tend to have a nice fire ball effect when loaded toward the upper levels. It is interesting shooting those in low light and evening shoots. AA2, AA5 and AA7 measure well in my measure. Another powder you can use is WSF and it measures well too. WST is much faster then WSF and is used for light loads. WSF is slower burning and you get good results with it for the upper end.

January 24, 2012, 10:19 AM	#18
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Expanding a little on what Jimkim wrote: Fast burning powders use smaller charge weights than slow burning powders to keep the pressure peaks below the SAAMI limit, so the fast-burning powders produce less gas to actually drive the bullet down the barrel. That means that, when the bullet base exits the barrel, the gas from a fast powder has expanded more than the gas from a slow powder, making the pressure in the gas lower. It is the gas pressure at the muzzle that creates the muzzle blast. SO, fast powders typically create less muzzle blast (and bullet velocity) than slow powders when max charges of each are used for each. With respect to why SOME of the .40s seemed to have louder muzzle blast, that suggests that some where at higher pressure: "Spot" checking your powder charge weights is not guarantee that a few are not over-weight, so I would suggest weighing ALL of your charges until you find the answer. Another possibility is that some of the bullets are being "set-back" into the case when they are automatically cycled into the chamber by a fired round. If that is the situation, it is dangerous. One thing to check for is how easily the bullets can be pushed back into the case. Again, you should check ALL of the rounds, since spot checking isn't effecteive when only a few exhibit the phenomenon at issue. It is especially important if you are using "range brass" where you don't know the history of each case. Another possibility is that trying to use a roll crimp die to make a taper crimp MIGHT be slightly bulging your cases and loosening the bullets on SOME rounds where the case length is sligtly longer than the average. SL1

January 24, 2012, 11:52 AM	#19
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	Thanks for the advice and keep those suggestions coming. I have some lighter bullets with AA#2 already made up. I am gonna take both to the range and see if I can hear any difference. I did not have the ammo with the lighter bullets with me last time. I also have some already assembled with AA#7 but I have not shot those in awhile. We'll take those to the range and make sure they sound right. Given what I am reading above, it sounds like AA#2 is a poor choice for heavy bullets at high speed.

January 24, 2012, 01:25 PM	#20
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	"...it sounds like AA#2 is a poor choice for heavy bullets at high speed." That is correct. Another possibility is that the powder is outside its pressure range for consistency, and you are getting pressure spikes from irratic burning. I can't say for your particular load, because I don't use AA#2 nor load 9mm. Maybe others can offer some experience with your load. SL1

January 28, 2012, 05:49 PM	#21
BerettaTN Member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Posts: 18	Well it was back to the range today for a little more experimenting. Not much doubt in my mind at this point that the problem here is powder that is burning too fast for the bullet it was trying to push. So kudos to those that analyzed the problem and gave me the solution. Many thanks for sharing your knowledge. I loaded a few dozen rounds using the lighter bullet (115gr.) with Accurate #2 and also test fired a few .40 cal. rounds. The .40's were 155gr. bullets also using Accurate #2. With the lighter bullets, the rounds sounded as they should. I also tried a little Accurate #7 with the 155gr. in the .40 cal. I really like that round. It is very snappy and shoots well in my Sig P226 but is a little dirty. If Midway will ever send me the Accurate #5 and the Power Pistol that I ordered, we'll do a little experimenting with that as well.

January 28, 2012, 09:42 PM	#22
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	When I find a load that works well but is dirty I do the following: Check load data to see if I can safely increase the amount of powder. Normally I find the middle of the max and min loads give me accurate loads. Just where in the middle is a matter of testing. Often I am .4 to .6 grains below the max amount. If I find I still can go up say .4 grains before I hit the max recommended load I will try .1 and .2 grains more in my test loads. When I get close to the max recommended amount of powder and it is still not doing what I expect it to do, it is time to go to a slower burning powder and start low and work my way up again. This method works for me loading pistol ammo. I do like softer shooting rounds so I tend to use faster burning powders. I found WST, W231 and AA5 work for what I want them to do. WST and AA5 were the cleanest burning powders of the 3. Remember to keep good notes of what you are loading. Include what works and what you have tried that doesn't as well. It will come in handy and prevent mistakes. It will prevent having to work up loads all over again to find what it was you once loaded and would like to do again down the road.