Question about .38 Wadcutters

[LBussy]

In another thread:

Originally Posted by USSR

Midway has them back in stock, at least for now. They won't last long, so get 'em while you can.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/35...base-wadcutter

(Before you go look they are out of stock)

I noticed these are .360 in diameter and the lead cast bullets I have been loading are .358 in diameter. I assume they work splendidly since they are so popular, but why the larger size?

I have been buying from Missouri Bullet Company and they sell cast .357 diameter bullets "for match barrels" so the implication is a perfectly sized bullet would be better than one which was oversized.

With the highly recommended HEWC from Midway out of stock, I was going to go with Missouri Bullet Company's coated DEWC:


PPC #2 - Hi-Tek

.358 Diameter
.38 Special
148 Grain DEWC-BB
Brinell 12
For PPC Velocity
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating from J&M Specialized Products P/L
Color may vary
Price per box of 500
Price: $40.00

I'd appreciate thoughts or even better, experiences with this bullet.

[reddog81]

If you can tell the accuracy difference between those bullets you're doing better than the vast majority of shooters out there.

Midway does the Speer 148 HBWCs in stock. Those are what I use if I'm shooting 38 specials with lead bullets and it's not something I cast myself.

I'm pretty sure the MBC DEWC's are cast and can be run hotter than the swaged HBWC, but wadcutters typically aren't run hot so that is usually a moot point.

Sorry for no definitive answer but it will vary from gun to gun and load to load. Additionally you can't ever trust an advertised diameter. I've bought stuff advertised as .358 and every bullet was .356 to .357 while others run .359 to .360 even though they say .358.

[USSR]

LBussy,

Wadcutters are a whole different world. I would not buy a .357" diameter wadcutter, and certainly not a plated wadcutter. Below is a good article for you to read by a very distinguished shooter. Hope that helps.

http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris...adcutterQA.htm

Don

[Chainsaw.]

A larger lead bullet doesn't hurt a thing. It aids in sealing and obturation. I would go any smaller that .358.

[Radny97]

Good link Don. Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mobuck]

Bigger diameter and softer lead means positive gas seal at lower pressures.

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by USSR

Wadcutters are a whole different world. I would not buy a .357" diameter wadcutter, and certainly not a plated wadcutter. Below is a good article for you to read by a very distinguished shooter. Hope that helps.

http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris...adcutterQA.htm

Thanks for the link! I'll give it a read with my morning coffee.

[Unclenick]

Your best bet, if you have the opportunity, is to buy bullets in different sizes and see which diameter shoots best in your gun. I've seen a revolver shoot better with 0.002" oversize than with 0.001" oversize, but worse than 0.001" when the oversizing went to 0.003". On the flip side of that, I have a K-frame S&W revolver that shoots groups with unsized, as-cast Lee Tumble Lube wadcutters that are half the size it achieves with commercial match loads.

Bottom line, try it and see.

[RC20]

Great information, I only shot and never did load woodcutters.

My funny story was when I was in my early 20s I had been shooting full load 41 magnum in an N frame for 3 years when I had occasion to shoot a Police course (keep in mind I was doing hard labor, fit as an ox and twice as strong)

So, they hand us the gun (357 N frame) and a box of bullets (38 wadcutter) and two speed loaders.

Ok, here is the course, how you shoot it. Ok, a bit of planning needed, I can reload loose at these points, I need to use the speedloaders here and here as the timing on the shoot at that stage is tight. Good to go.

I don't remember the stages, it start at 25 or 40 yards and moved closer each time, First full standing, some closer at barriers right, top and left side (left handed). You wound up at like 5 yards standing firing point blank.

Off I go, hmm, first shot, this is like a 22 for crying out loud. N frame 357 with 38 wad-cutters, sweet. I am doing what I always did and do, pull the hammer back and SA.

My plan works out as I thought it would, all shots inside the time line (last was so closoe I think I did DA on that one)

Then the range master scores the target, then again and again. I am getting nervous it looks pretty good to me but ????????

Then he hands me my score (didn't know what it meant) and tells me to go to the office and look up at the rating board for 20+ instructors.

I ranked number 4 as I recall (maybe 3rd).

Then the head guy asks me where I learned to shoot.

Uhh gravel pits? Shakes his head. Then tells me that all the guys are there so they can shoot in pistol competitions. Hmmm. I guess they arn't so good huh? He grins (he was the top guy)

Now my step dad was a good shot, he had the technique (and he usually beat me) , me, I was just a solid mass of muscle in those days and I could lock up and hold seriously steady. It was funny though, I can see why they want officers to shoot what they patrol with. Get used to those flea bites and the real thing would be a shock.

The armorer had to have an identical eye to mine, I have shot other peoples pistols that while groups fine were off one way or the other for me.

[mikld]

A .360" soft HBWC should be fairly accurate in any revolver, because of the variation in cylinder throat IDs it should seal in even the largest throats. Regardless of the bullet size, it (the bullet mentioned) will exit the cylinder at the same diameter as the throat; either swaged down or obturated from the chamber pressure...

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Your best bet, if you have the opportunity, is to buy bullets in different sizes and see which diameter shoots best in your gun. I've seen a revolver shoot better with 0.002" oversize than with 0.001" oversize, but worse than 0.001" when the oversizing went to 0.003". On the flip side of that, I have a K-frame S&W revolver that shoots groups with unsized, as-cast Lee Tumble Lube wadcutters that are half the size it achieves with commercial match loads.

Bottom line, try it and see.

Of that I have no doubt. The challenge is getting a "few" of each to try out. I think MBC will sell me sample numbers but I'm not sure where to get the rest. I kinda need to start out with a good idea and then have it be right. Yeah, and win the lottery too while I'm at it.

[T. O'Heir]

Coating is probably 2 or 3 thou thick. Doesn't really matter. Even "hard" cast bullets are softer than any steel.
The "for match barrels" is marketing. The most accurate WC's are swaged HBWC's.

[LBussy]

Oops, wrong button.

[Unclenick]

If you are set up for casting, I'll stick my neck out and recommend the Lee 6-cavity mold for the tumble-lube wadcutter. Again, I shoot them as-cast (without sizing) with Lee's lube and little motor mica sprinkled on when it has dried to tacky. Again, half the size of the commercial match HBWC loads from the K-frame Smith. As to the various commercial ones, some, as you observe, will give away small samples, but you'll have to try the rest.

The next time I talk to Ed Harris, I'll offer him some of my cast TL bullets to try out. I am curious how his rifle will shoot them as compared to the Remington swaged HBWC's he likes so much. For that matter, I should probably buy some of those, too, as the commercial match I shot for comparison was only Federal, IIRC.

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

If you are set up for casting [...]

I'm not set up for casting. While to some it may be a natural extension or reloading, I am trying not to take on what seems like another complete hobby.

Some day I'll try. I had a Lee pot and a couple molds from another hobby (making grinding media from linotype believe it or not) but I gave it away. Should have kept it all.

[Unclenick]

Yep. The minute after you clear the clutter, it's content becomes exactly what you need.

[condor bravo]

If you are still looking for a source of 148gr .38 dewc's, www.snscasting.com has them, $38/500.

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by condor bravo

If you are still looking for a source of 148gr .38 dewc's, www.snscasting.com has them, $38/500.

Thanks. I'm actually waiting on the Remington HBWC to come back in stock. Assuming the do (and I can catch them) I'll be pairing those up with the Wadcutter brass.

[Sevens]

Uhhhh, I would suggest there is a very good chance that Remington never again produces those bullets. Your wait may be infinite.

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by Sevens

Uhhhh, I would suggest there is a very good chance that Remington never again produces those bullets. Your wait may be infinite.

Some went on sale a few weeks back (and was sold out quickly.)

[Sevens]

I saw that also and speculation was that the sale was clearing out the last of a discontinued product. I suppose time will tell, but my position is based on what we have seen from a "once great" American manufacturer that is no longer so.

In your shoes, I would make a plan to go forward as if these cease to exist, and then it will be like a sweepstakes winning if some how you manage to get some.

[.38SPL enthusiast]

I asked Remington about their reloading components sometime during the last year. They informed me that the wadcutters that were sold as components were overrun from ammunition manufacture. Unfortunately, ammunition sells were really high and few bullets were available for reloaders. Who ever I spoke with claimed the company hoped to increase production.

[Paul B.]

First off, I cast my own bullets for rifle and handgun. Most of my shooting with the .38 Spl. is with the Lyman #359495 wadcutter over 3.1 gr. of W231. Bullets are sized to .359". Virtually any make brass except AMERC. Second choice is all the above but using 2.7 gr. Bullseye instead of W231. In the end though, I prefer the 231. Bullet alloy about 11 in the BHN scale.

I got a smoking deal on a case of Winchester match .38 Spl. wadcutter ammo. I ran a comparison against my hand load and my revolver liked the hand load better by a large margin. Factory WC 4.5", hand load 2.5". from an S&W K38, 6" barrel. Naturally, YMMV.
Paul B.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by LBussy

Some went on sale a few weeks back (and was sold out quickly.)

The Speer 148's can still be found. I'd stock up on a couple boxes while they are available. If the Remington's eventually come back then buy those also.