The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 25, 2017, 05:48 PM   #1
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
And heres my first question ?

( if this is the wrong place to drop this -- I'm sure It will be moved )

In our S.A.F.E. group - the woman who runs our Women on Target classes - adult son died --

She just got around to cleaning out his safe & sold a bunch of handguns and rifles she'd never use --

The other night she gave me a CVA - 1861 Colt Navy kit ( ASM ) --

My plan as of now is to build it - make a nice box & give it back to her

( as my Pappy said -- "When you ever get to the point - raise your hand" -- )

99.9% of the parts were in a bag -- Allen must have bought this in the late "80's" ?

I just ordered a brass back strap for it --- test assembling it --

Pull the hammer back either very slow or fast - 1/2 cock first click - fine - second little click - fine ---- third - hammer back locking click - good -- pull the trigger -- great --

But if I just drop the barrel on to the spindle & point it up -- first click - fine - bolt release is retracted and the barrel will free spin --

When I pull the hammer back to lock it in the firing position -- it wont hold there - it moves forward to 1/2 cock ????

Remove the barrel - its good ?

I even filed a tinny bit where the hand slides in the frame in case it was binding a wee-bit --

Any suggestions ?

Last edited by Ricekila; May 25, 2017 at 05:54 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 06:06 PM   #2
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
The hand is too long.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 06:09 PM   #3
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
If I file / grind it back -- I'll assume just till the hammer holds back ?

A better general question #2 might be -- how long should it be ?
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ

Last edited by Ricekila; May 25, 2017 at 06:21 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 06:24 PM   #4
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 2,113
Go here:

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles...a_Part_One.pdf

and here:

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles...a_Part_Two.pdf

These articles should take of any problems. They are written for the Pietta; but will work on any open top Colt clone or kit.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 06:28 PM   #5
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
Mines over length is .975 --- from tip to holes center is .850 --
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 06:30 PM   #6
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
Fingers -- "tanks" -- I'll have a lookie

Odd -- no thanks button here

And Hawg -- your my new best-est friend
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ

Last edited by Ricekila; May 25, 2017 at 06:36 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 06:44 PM   #7
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
When I first started rebuilding my Mosins -- rule #1 --

Dont tinker - until spare parts are within reach -- so I just ordered this --

http://www.deercreekproducts.net/sto..._Assembly.html

__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ

Last edited by Ricekila; May 25, 2017 at 07:05 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 25, 2017, 09:16 PM   #8
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
And I found parts 3 & 4
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 06:47 AM   #9
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
Although looking through the links that Fingers posted & the other two I found - I didn't see anything directly addressing my problem --

But as I work through this using the links -- I guess I'm tuning already --

I sharpie-ed the bolt to file it down when I take it apart yet again -- I should keep a score card --

The same on the cylinder -- the bolt is rubbing dead center --

I noticed with the hammed down -- I can - with a small screwdriver push against the hands spring --

( pics just show positions )



Then at 1/2 cock I can still push it back a bit --



All the way back - firing position -- its to stiff to push back --



And I can see where its rubbing --



After I milk the cows - I'll file it back a bit

?
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 10:36 AM   #10
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,823
First thing to fit is the bolt. Make sure the bolt fits into each cylinder notch. Then fit the hand. Do not grind. Use a file and go very slowly. Test frequently.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 11:01 AM   #11
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
The hand slot isn't your main problem. The hand turns the cylinder but when the bolt locks into the cylinder notch and the hammer isn't on full cock the hand is just pushing against the cylinder and it cant go anywhere. Therefore the hand is too long. It probably won't take but a couple of strokes with a file to fix it.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 11:12 AM   #12
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
"First thing to fit is the bolt. Make sure the bolt fits into each cylinder notch."

Fits in every one like a glove

"The hand turns the cylinder but when the bolt locks into the cylinder notch and the hammer isn't on full cock the hand is just pushing against the cylinder and it cant go anywhere"

With my pea-brain -- that explained it --- A new spare / replacement should be here by Tuesday next -- I'll give this one a gentle filing later tonight ----
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ

Last edited by Ricekila; May 26, 2017 at 03:42 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 01:17 PM   #13
45 Dragoon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2013
Posts: 656
The hand won't be contacting the frame with the cylinder installed, it'll be in the cyl ratchet (pushed back).
You need to fit the hand so that cyl lockup and full cock happen at the same instant. If lockup happens before full cock, the hand is long. If lockup happens after full cock, you'll need to stretch the hand. When you achieve that, then you can set the bolt drop (timing).

That's when things get more difficult.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
45 Dragoon is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 03:38 PM   #14
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
And as we say in Yiddish ---- Bingo

I carefully filed a little offa the top -- tested it -- I got one good cocking -

Took it out and filled again - same 6 strokes --- "El Perficto"

Doesn't look like much does it ?



When I get to in -- I'll give it a little heat-treat & polishing

I gave the ratcheting hooks a good slathering of sharpie ink -- the wear on all is right at the hooks base --

Now should I turn this epic thread into a - "How I did it" thread ?

Or start another

Tanks again

P/S -- before the shaving -- ( overall hand length ) - .975 -- after -- .95 & 1/2 - ish --
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ

Last edited by Ricekila; May 26, 2017 at 03:44 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 05:38 PM   #15
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
I wouldn't harden it. If you do the wear will be on the cylinder and not the hand.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 08:23 PM   #16
44 Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2013
Posts: 582
I may be missing it on yours but there should be a flattened area on the arbor where the hand passes it. I had a new Navy that was not done, it would work but was tight.
44 Dave is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 08:37 PM   #17
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
"I wouldn't harden it. If you do the wear will be on the cylinder and not the hand."

Good point -- Its hardly a safe queen - and these cylinders aint cheap


"I may be missing it on yours but there should be a flattened area on the arbor where the hand passes it. I had a new Navy that was not done, it would work but was tight."

Nope - maybe I should carve into the grip -- "POS" -- so I wont forget

Kinda anoying to do quoting here aint it
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 10:04 PM   #18
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
Quote:
Kinda anoying to do quoting here aint it
Kinda, it's not as easy as most forums and doesn't even say who you're quoting. You can add that in but then it's really annoying.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 08:46 PM   #19
44 Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2013
Posts: 582
Here is the flat area on an arbor, don't take them out of the frame!
(sorry trouble up loading)

Last edited by 44 Dave; May 29, 2017 at 02:09 PM.
44 Dave is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 09:12 PM   #20
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169


I just checked again arbor is round till it threads into the frame --
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 09:33 PM   #21
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
Quote:
I may be missing it on yours but there should be a flattened area on the arbor where the hand passes it. I had a new Navy that was not done, it would work but was tight.
Uberti has a flat spot. Pietta has a step down in arbor diameter there.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 09:33 PM   #22
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
Started blending the grips





Maybe a little contouring ?
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 09:44 PM   #23
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
On this ASM - where the arbor is into the frame ( threaded & pinned ? ) - its .430 - on the hand side the slot is just shy of the arbor edge
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ

Last edited by Ricekila; May 27, 2017 at 10:31 PM.
Ricekila is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 09:45 PM   #24
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,175
You should be polishing the rough casting smooth instead of filing it. You're going to end up polishing it anyway.
Hawg is offline  
Old May 27, 2017, 10:13 PM   #25
Ricekila
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2017
Location: Lawnguyland, NY
Posts: 169
Learning from another kit I did years ago starting with "The Dremel" -- it came out to wavy -- this I started draw filing then file backed #400G emery - then tapping the frame with the grip installed -- 100G paper till the tape starts to show signs of wearing through -- this way the wood is still 1/2-ish a credit card thickness proud -- then I'll hand sand it off the frame - check fit gaps -- hot wet towel -- check -- then final brass polishing --

And I leave in the screws to prevent dishing -- then they get dressed & polished
__________________
NRA Instructor / RSO & NRA Life Member / S.A.F.E. Armorer / 03-FFL / Moist Nugget gun nut / Ammosexual / COR of a Venturing Crew / And a right wing Republican Jew with guns

Μολών Λaβέ
Ricekila is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09136 seconds with 8 queries