Reloading 5.56 for AR15

ninosdemente · February 21, 2019, 10:11 PM

I have just started reading/seeing videos on reloading 5.56 for AR15. Still have to do my research though, but can someone point me in the direction of what dies are needed?

I found these: https://www.brownells.com/reloading/....aspx?psize=96

I have RCBS Rock Chucker.

As of now, have FC, Winchester, LC brass and other brass. So I do have quite a few brass, for me at least to begin reloading. I still have to get a primer pocket swager for certain brass, where I found this https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-9481-Pri.../dp/B0063IDAX2 , this one shows a how to video at the bottom: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...swager-combo-2

I know there are other less expensive and more expensive tools for this task. Looking for something that can possibly be the most effective. I know there are other factors I am not thinking of or am missing. Just haven't gotten far in my research yet. Thanks in advanced.

Bubbau · February 21, 2019, 10:28 PM

I use Dillons .223 three die set and a Super Swage 600. I prefer not to seat and crimp at the same time.

Stats Shooter · February 21, 2019, 10:29 PM

I have the rcbs die-type swagger. It works well and removes the crimp, but it is a bit of a pain. I would like to try the dillon swage but dont have a brass project pending to justify the purchase.

NWPilgrim · February 21, 2019, 10:48 PM

Those dies are fine to start with. After getting more experience you may decide you want to add or change things depending on the type of shooting you do.

You will need a means to measure and trim cases. Dial or digital calipers; I like the analog dial but digital allows you to change units of measure. Case trimmers can be anything from a few bucks for a Lee trimmer, $80 lathe trimmer to $300 motorized trimmer. If you shoot a lot then you may want something like the WFT trimmer that fits in a drill and is very fast and easy, but is cartridge specific. If you shoot a moderate amount and reload for other bottleneck rifle cartridges then a lathe trimmer may be better.

For sizing I like to use Hornady One Shot spray lube to get inside the necks and just the tiniest bit of Imperial Sizing Wax wiped around the base.

Eventually you may want a press mounted bullet puller since the light .224” bullets have so little mass they are a pain to use an inertia bullet puller on. I like the Hornady camming one.

std7mag · February 22, 2019, 08:18 AM

I'm using Lee dies for that caliber.
As was mentioned, don't forget to crimp.

If you can, stick with the LC brass. It seems to have slightly more volume and more consistant than the other makes.
Don't do a close to max load in LC then switch to Fed or something else. You might run into some pressure issues.
Ask Unclenick, he has the info on that.

Also, check your barrel. Does it say 5.56, or 223? There is a difference.
Plus find your barrel twist rate. This will determine what weight of bullet will stabilize out of it.

TX Nimrod · February 22, 2019, 09:16 AM

Over the past 35 years I have loaded thousands of rounds for my AR-15 and have never crimped a bullet (my RCBS dies do provide a relatively tight neck tension). Most .224” bullets don’t have crimp grooves, and loading manuals don’t say to crimp them...which can’t be done anyway without something like the Lee “factory crimp” dies. There is nothing wrong with crimping, but somehow shooters using dies other than Lee have survived without crimping for decades....

.

higgite · February 22, 2019, 09:46 AM

ninosdemente,
Check your private messages.

Reloadron · February 22, 2019, 12:51 PM

The dies you linked to will work just fine. My own experience with 223 for an AR type rifle is just about any two die set will work just fine with some decent case lube. I happen to use the RCBS #11101 standard dies as well as the RCBS #37201 Comp Dies as well as the RCBS #11107 set you linked to. They all work fine for basic loading of the 223 Remington. Unless you have a high end AR and are shooting competition I doubt you will see much difference. A two die Lee set will serve as well as what I mentioned or about any manufacturer I can think of. I tried and have some of the Lee FCD (Factory Crimp Die) and using it never got me anything in improved group size. Using standard dies with a taper crimp worked just fine. I do suggest if you plan to use something like the Lee FCD you make sure you trim your brass nice and uniform.

As to crimp removal? I started with a #2 Phillips screwdriver bit and that worked just fine. The only objective is to allow a new primer to seat uniformly. While I also have some of the fancier tools you really don't need much for starters and to get the job done.

Ron

Mobuck · February 22, 2019, 04:53 PM

There are no "5.56" dies. Everything you reload will be .223. Some manuals will say the loads are 5.56 but this is mostly because of the bullet weights used.

BWM · February 22, 2019, 05:49 PM

Your 223 is the same as 5.56x45 when you buy 5.56x45 it is a hot load it is to be used in a gun marked for it if your gun is marked 223 it will cause high pressure there is a throat difference in the 2 the 223 is smaller and it makes it more accurate the other is a military you most likely will load the 223 so jest use the loading for the 223 and I would say stay away from full loads because they do NOT make the most accurate loads any way. What twist is your gun? a 1/9 1/8 1/7

ninosdemente · February 22, 2019, 10:58 PM

Thanks guys for the responses...

Still learning the reloading but have successfully loaded .223 and 30-06 for bolt action. Both dies are RCBS.

Bubbau, the swage 600 is a bit more that I would like to spend on. Maybe can take advantage if they are ever on sale.
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Stats Shooter, what don't you like about it? You mentioned it's a bit of a pain.
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NWPilgrim, thanks. I actually have rock chucker supreme master reloading kit that I got on sale from a store that was closing for less than half the price. Got a RCBS trimmer as it didn't come with it, eventually bought an adapter for $10 to use with a impact. Sure beats having to hand crank, does get uncomfortable after a bit. DO have digital weight scale, and digital calipers. I have read about the one shot spray and the imperial wax, but since the lube and pad came with the kit, I am using that until it runs out. I also have an inertia bullet puller and I agree, a pain in the butt to try and remove one. Unless I don't know how to use it right, it take me sometimes up to 12 times before it finally comes out.
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std7mag, yes it is 5.56 and it is 1:8RH.
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Reloadron, what is the main difference between the dies you mentioned? Do they really make a difference when reloading? I only shoot for recreational. Don't think that I will reach competition any time soon. My rifle was only $650, don't think that would be high end rifle. I have also read about using a flat head screwdriver. Trying to stay away from buying that I just wont end up using.
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Mobuck, thanks. No wonder I couldn't find them.... lol. Should have known better after different sites weren't coming up with what I thought was needed to reload.
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BWM, thanks. I am not shooting for better groups at the moment, just for fun. To be honest I don't shoot it much, mostly bolt gun. Sometimes I take the AR thinking I will shoot it, then end up not shooting it. Really was more to have one in my small collection. But if I start reloading then yes I am planning to shoot more. The twist rate is 1:8RH.

Reloadron · February 23, 2019, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Reloadron, what is the main difference between the dies you mentioned? Do they really make a difference when reloading? I only shoot for recreational. Don't think that I will reach competition any time soon. My rifle was only $650, don't think that would be high end rifle. I have also read about using a flat head screwdriver. Trying to stay away from buying that I just wont end up using.

The RCBS PN 11107 for example is a TC (Taper Crimp) SB (Small Base) die set which just means that the resized cartridges should easily chamber in any AR rifle, it will compress the cartridge base a little more than a standard die. Do you need it to load 223 Remington for an AR? Not really in 99% of the rifles I have come across.

The RCBS PN 37201 is a competition die set with a micrometer click bullet seater. The die makes seating a bullet straight and true to axis a little easier but again, unless you have a high end rifle I don't see this set as being needed.

The RCBS PN 11101 is your everyday two die set for 223 and be it made by RCBS or another manufacturer that is about all you need.

Also, as I mentioned I personally have found a need for a die like the Lee FCD on 223 Remington. Some guys like and swear by them but I never use the ones I have.

Ron

NWPilgrim · February 23, 2019, 09:18 AM

A 1:8 twist rate will allow you to shoot every bullet weight at least to 77gr.

For recreational shooting to 200 yds I like the Hornady 55gr bullets ((FMJ, HP, SP) as they are accurate and less expensive than other quality brands. Milsurp bullets are much less accurate (maybe 2moa instead of 1 moa), and pulled bullets are cheaper and much worse (4moa). But if you are just out for 50 yd blasting fun then any bullet works.

For longer ranges I like the Nosler 69 gr or 77 gr BTHP as they are accurate and you can get them almost as cheap as equivalent Hornady when you buy in bulk (600 or 1,000 qty). In smaller 100 count lots the Hornady is still a quality bullet at a much cheaper price than Nosler or Sierra.

The main difference in loading for .223 versus 5.56 is the max pressure. The .223 will be 55,000psi and the 5.56 load data will be for 62,000psi. Some powders seem to like to be near max but I try to stay at .223 level or midway between that and 5.56.

One thing about loading for the AR is a loose primer pocket can allow a primer to fall out when shot. And it can really jam up the bolt very bad. So when seating primers, if the primer is seated with very little resistance compared to most, just throw that case in the recycle bucket. Usually a case will get a split neck or show signs of case head separation before that. But if you shot a too hot load during testing, for instance, it can accelerate stretching of the primer pocket. I toss out maybe one or two cases per thousand.

Stats Shooter · February 24, 2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Stats Shooter, what don't you like about it? You mentioned it's a bit of a pain.

Referring to the rcbs swagger kit. I will first say it works. It swages pockets perfectly.

What I dont like is
1: You really need to lube each pocket well which slows things down a lot

2: you have to hold the case and guide it into the rod to ensure it is centered over the swaging nipple and the rod.

3: Even with lube and being careful, your palm will hurt after about 1,000 of them

But it does work, I just wouldn't do another batch of 5,000 using it

ninosdemente · February 24, 2019, 11:18 AM

Reloadron, thanks for explaining the dies you mentioned. Would the same apply for those who load for bolt action as well?
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NWPilgrim, I haven't gone up to 200 yds yet with AR. To be honest have been always on the 50 yds, but only becuase I am always with a small group so I end up not shooting at the distance I want to do so. As mentioned, I don't shoot the AR much so I still need a lot of practice before I even start moving up to 100 yd or the 200yd.

When loading for bolt action I never buy in bulk, but I should start buying as I do get 69gr Nosler CC, Bergers. Would be nice to get Sierra in bulk as the 100 qty are about $10 compared to what I buy. Where do you get yours at? I just started buying stuff from Midway/Brownells, always have bought from Cabelas but they are starting to seem they never have what I need when I walk in. Some online sites I have seen free shipping which helps a bit although may take a bit longer but I can suck it up. Its winter here so not in a rush yet.

Thanks for the heads up on the primer pockets. Is there a site where everyone goes to see twist rate and bullet weight? I did a google search and the first 6 links had different weights relative to twist rate. They were not very far off.
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Stats Shooter, thanks for the explanation. I can see how doing a large quantity would be time consuming. Is it recommended to lube or does it sate on the manual? Have you tried it without lubing by accident? That is the reason why I was contemplating on getting it as it is cheaper but I figured it would have some type of drawback to it. Thanks again.

NWPilgrim · February 24, 2019, 11:54 AM

My source for best prices on Nosler bullets: http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-products.html

Bulk new or blems. I have bought many batches of blems and can not see the difference. Their supplies vary but usually come in again later on. They also have had bullets harder to find. I bought a few thousand Nosler 64 gr bonded SP when they first came out at a price about the same as the BTHP, which is a fraction of the Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX.

But, shhhhh, keep it quiet so all the other reloading nuts don’t buy it all out before us!!!

Reloadron · February 24, 2019, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Reloadron, thanks for explaining the dies you mentioned. Would the same apply for those who load for bolt action as well?

Pretty much, I load for bolt action as well as several AR rifles chambered in 223 Remington. My opinion and just that my opinion is to get started all you need is a two die basic set. Added features are nice all in due time if they are warranted.

When it comes to bullet weights verse barrel twist likely the bast information comes from the guys who made the bullet, just as an example:

Keep in mind that applies to the Sierra bullets shown. Generally speaking the heavier the bullet the faster twist rate needed to stabilize the bullet. My bolt gun is a slow 1:12 26" barrel and it simply will not stabilize a bullet over 55 grains, anything heavier results in not groups but patterns of keyholes at 100 yards.

Like any caliber you work with different bullets, powders and components to see what works in your rifle.

Ron

ninosdemente · February 25, 2019, 12:04 AM

NWPilgrim, thanks for the link. No problem... I'll keep it down. Lol.
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Reloadron, thanks for the info. Will make sure to keep an eye out for description on the packages. Reason why I asked about bolt is I have "basic" RCBS dies for both .223 and 30-06. More of a curiosity.

NWPilgrim · February 25, 2019, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninosdemente

NWPilgrim, thanks for the link. No problem... I'll keep it down. Lol.
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Reloadron, thanks for the info. Will make sure to keep an eye out for description on the packages. Reason why I asked about bolt is I have "basic" RCBS dies for both .223 and 30-06. More of a curiosity.

If you already have .223 dies then try those before buying a small base sizing die as in the AR set. As Reloadron stated, most AR15s will handled normally sized cases just fine. I have reloaded many thousands for four different ARs and never had an issue with case sizing in them.

ninosdemente · February 25, 2019, 06:41 PM

Thanks. Is there a difference from what I have vs the small base Ar dies? Maybe my ignorance, but sure makes me think there is a difference if they are selling two different dies.

NWPilgrim · February 25, 2019, 07:18 PM

Small base dies squeeze the base of the case a bit more narrow than standard sizing die. This will allow sure feeding in chambers that may be a bit snug or carboned up. Personally I have never seen an AR15 that would not feed and extract normally sized dies, and never personally met a reloader who had a problem. Small base sizing will work harden the brass in the base more than normal sizing. So I would not do extra sizing on the brass unless I had a rifle that needed it. Chambers do vary a bit so a small percentage of rifles apparently need this extra squeeze.

As far as I know factory brass is not undersized at the base and I don’t hear any complaints about it. Now I may have to go out to the bench and measure some factory ammo versus my RCBS normally sized cases!

MarkCO · February 26, 2019, 09:10 AM

If you are loading 5.56, stick with the LC brass. Commercial .223 brass for .223Rem loads. Very few manuals actually have the higher pressure 5.56 loads and the vast majority of folks only load .223 loads. Same dies for both.

**Unclenick** · February 26, 2019, 04:43 PM

It usually works for both kinds of brass because the external dimensions of 5.56 brass are the same as .223 brass, except that SAAMI has a more generous length tolerance. The only times you get trouble are when, as suggested, you have an AR that won't feed normal loads, and also there are times when you get once-fired brass that was fired in a chamber significantly wider than yours that it may not come all the way back in a standard die on the first pass. After being fired in your own chamber, though, it should resize in the standard die.

As to the pressure differences, the two standard military pressures are different by just under 6%. The original M193 was rated at 52,000 CUP, as was copied by SAAMI for 223 Rem, but it never adopted by NATO because they found its range and penetration inadequate. The first NATO-adopted round was SS109 which we copy fairly closely as M855, and was rated at 55,000 CUP when measured on the same type copper crusher as M193. So it is about 5.8% real pressure difference. The same SS109 measured on EPVAT channel pressure transducers gives 4300 Bar or 62,366 psi. On our conformal transducer, the M193 gives 55,000 psi and M855 gives 58,200 psi. The difference between 62,366 psi by channel transducer and 58,200 psi by the conformal transducer appears to be an artifact of the measuring system differences.

The CIP found the real difference of under 6% in pressure between .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO so inconsequential to modern guns that they just standardized their member country .223 loads at the same higher 62,366 psi as M855 and SS109. So if you buy .223 Remington from Norma or Lapua or RWS or other European brands, unless it states specifically that it is loaded to U.S. standards, it will be loaded respecting the same pressure limit as 5.56 NATO.

To get a sense of perspective, SAAMI sets its limits allowing for 4% pressure standard deviation. 2 standard deviations are the 95% confidence limit, and the higher pressure actually falls within that. It also falls within SAAMI's MPLM of 58,500 psi, which is the increase in pressure they allow for the lot aging. So nothing here is anywhere near proof pressure and it nothing that a commercial case can't handle.

THE ONE TO WATCH OUT FOR is the new M855A1 lead-free round which has solid copper under part of the bearing surface of the bullet and that bullet has no grooves like the newer Barnes and other solids, so the start pressure is high. In testing, the military says its pressure is higher than the old M855 and barrel life problems have been observed as result and probably other wear effects will be produced, too. I have not heard a number for how much higher the pressure is and haven't seen full specs, but another 10% pressure to get more range out of it would not surprise me.

Western Powders has load data for the higher European pressure, but they are measuring it on a conformal transducer. That concerned me since the conformal transducer wants to read 58,200 with European loads. But when I talked to Western they said they calibrated with the idea of matching the European numbers. They may have acquired some European reference loads to provide a calibrating factor, but I don't know. The SAAMI calibration is static, using hydraulic pressure, and that may be part of the problem with failure to match the European channel transducers.

thallub · February 26, 2019, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Over the past 35 years I have loaded thousands of rounds for my AR-15 and have never crimped a bullet (my RCBS dies do provide a relatively tight neck tension).

Works well for me too.

ninosdemente · February 26, 2019, 09:56 PM

NWPilgrim, thanks for the explanation. Perhaps need to make some dummy with .223 dies I currently have then to see if chambering works well.
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MarkCO, thanks. Do have quite a bit of LC brass.
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Unclenick, all brass I have is collected from range. Not from my own. I do have Winchester that was fired from my AR but do see LC is recommended to be used instead of others. Is Winchester not that good? I don't have much only between 150-200 if not mistaken.

Thanks for the info.

February 22, 2019, 08:18 AM	#5
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I'm using Lee dies for that caliber. As was mentioned, don't forget to crimp. If you can, stick with the LC brass. It seems to have slightly more volume and more consistant than the other makes. Don't do a close to max load in LC then switch to Fed or something else. You might run into some pressure issues. Ask Unclenick, he has the info on that. Also, check your barrel. Does it say 5.56, or 223? There is a difference. Plus find your barrel twist rate. This will determine what weight of bullet will stabilize out of it. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

February 22, 2019, 05:49 PM	#10
BWM Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2013 Location: SW IN Posts: 438	Your 223 is the same as 5.56x45 when you buy 5.56x45 it is a hot load it is to be used in a gun marked for it if your gun is marked 223 it will cause high pressure there is a throat difference in the 2 the 223 is smaller and it makes it more accurate the other is a military you most likely will load the 223 so jest use the loading for the 223 and I would say stay away from full loads because they do NOT make the most accurate loads any way. What twist is your gun? a 1/9 1/8 1/7 __________________ Man that likes guns. Navy. USS Ponchatoula AO 148 USS Vesuvius AE 15

February 24, 2019, 11:54 AM	#16
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Reloading 5.56 for AR15 My source for best prices on Nosler bullets: http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-products.html Bulk new or blems. I have bought many batches of blems and can not see the difference. Their supplies vary but usually come in again later on. They also have had bullets harder to find. I bought a few thousand Nosler 64 gr bonded SP when they first came out at a price about the same as the BTHP, which is a fraction of the Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX. But, shhhhh, keep it quiet so all the other reloading nuts don’t buy it all out before us!!!

February 26, 2019, 09:10 AM	#22
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	If you are loading 5.56, stick with the LC brass. Commercial .223 brass for .223Rem loads. Very few manuals actually have the higher pressure 5.56 loads and the vast majority of folks only load .223 loads. Same dies for both. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

February 26, 2019, 04:43 PM	#23
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	It usually works for both kinds of brass because the external dimensions of 5.56 brass are the same as .223 brass, except that SAAMI has a more generous length tolerance. The only times you get trouble are when, as suggested, you have an AR that won't feed normal loads, and also there are times when you get once-fired brass that was fired in a chamber significantly wider than yours that it may not come all the way back in a standard die on the first pass. After being fired in your own chamber, though, it should resize in the standard die. As to the pressure differences, the two standard military pressures are different by just under 6%. The original M193 was rated at 52,000 CUP, as was copied by SAAMI for 223 Rem, but it never adopted by NATO because they found its range and penetration inadequate. The first NATO-adopted round was SS109 which we copy fairly closely as M855, and was rated at 55,000 CUP when measured on the same type copper crusher as M193. So it is about 5.8% real pressure difference. The same SS109 measured on EPVAT channel pressure transducers gives 4300 Bar or 62,366 psi. On our conformal transducer, the M193 gives 55,000 psi and M855 gives 58,200 psi. The difference between 62,366 psi by channel transducer and 58,200 psi by the conformal transducer appears to be an artifact of the measuring system differences. The CIP found the real difference of under 6% in pressure between .223 Rem and 5.56 NATO so inconsequential to modern guns that they just standardized their member country .223 loads at the same higher 62,366 psi as M855 and SS109. So if you buy .223 Remington from Norma or Lapua or RWS or other European brands, unless it states specifically that it is loaded to U.S. standards, it will be loaded respecting the same pressure limit as 5.56 NATO. To get a sense of perspective, SAAMI sets its limits allowing for 4% pressure standard deviation. 2 standard deviations are the 95% confidence limit, and the higher pressure actually falls within that. It also falls within SAAMI's MPLM of 58,500 psi, which is the increase in pressure they allow for the lot aging. So nothing here is anywhere near proof pressure and it nothing that a commercial case can't handle. THE ONE TO WATCH OUT FOR is the new M855A1 lead-free round which has solid copper under part of the bearing surface of the bullet and that bullet has no grooves like the newer Barnes and other solids, so the start pressure is high. In testing, the military says its pressure is higher than the old M855 and barrel life problems have been observed as result and probably other wear effects will be produced, too. I have not heard a number for how much higher the pressure is and haven't seen full specs, but another 10% pressure to get more range out of it would not surprise me. Western Powders has load data for the higher European pressure, but they are measuring it on a conformal transducer. That concerned me since the conformal transducer wants to read 58,200 with European loads. But when I talked to Western they said they calibrated with the idea of matching the European numbers. They may have acquired some European reference loads to provide a calibrating factor, but I don't know. The SAAMI calibration is static, using hydraulic pressure, and that may be part of the problem with failure to match the European channel transducers. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 21, 2019, 10:11 PM	#1
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Reloading 5.56 for AR15 I have just started reading/seeing videos on reloading 5.56 for AR15. Still have to do my research though, but can someone point me in the direction of what dies are needed? I found these: https://www.brownells.com/reloading/....aspx?psize=96 I have RCBS Rock Chucker. As of now, have FC, Winchester, LC brass and other brass. So I do have quite a few brass, for me at least to begin reloading. I still have to get a primer pocket swager for certain brass, where I found this https://www.amazon.com/RCBS-9481-Pri.../dp/B0063IDAX2 , this one shows a how to video at the bottom: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...swager-combo-2 I know there are other less expensive and more expensive tools for this task. Looking for something that can possibly be the most effective. I know there are other factors I am not thinking of or am missing. Just haven't gotten far in my research yet. Thanks in advanced.

February 21, 2019, 10:28 PM	#2
Bubbau Member Join Date: January 28, 2018 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 16	I use Dillons .223 three die set and a Super Swage 600. I prefer not to seat and crimp at the same time.

February 21, 2019, 10:29 PM	#3
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	I have the rcbs die-type swagger. It works well and removes the crimp, but it is a bit of a pain. I would like to try the dillon swage but dont have a brass project pending to justify the purchase.

February 21, 2019, 10:48 PM	#4
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Those dies are fine to start with. After getting more experience you may decide you want to add or change things depending on the type of shooting you do. You will need a means to measure and trim cases. Dial or digital calipers; I like the analog dial but digital allows you to change units of measure. Case trimmers can be anything from a few bucks for a Lee trimmer, $80 lathe trimmer to $300 motorized trimmer. If you shoot a lot then you may want something like the WFT trimmer that fits in a drill and is very fast and easy, but is cartridge specific. If you shoot a moderate amount and reload for other bottleneck rifle cartridges then a lathe trimmer may be better. For sizing I like to use Hornady One Shot spray lube to get inside the necks and just the tiniest bit of Imperial Sizing Wax wiped around the base. Eventually you may want a press mounted bullet puller since the light .224” bullets have so little mass they are a pain to use an inertia bullet puller on. I like the Hornady camming one.

February 22, 2019, 09:16 AM	#6
TX Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Zona Posts: 423	Over the past 35 years I have loaded thousands of rounds for my AR-15 and have never crimped a bullet (my RCBS dies do provide a relatively tight neck tension). Most .224” bullets don’t have crimp grooves, and loading manuals don’t say to crimp them...which can’t be done anyway without something like the Lee “factory crimp” dies. There is nothing wrong with crimping, but somehow shooters using dies other than Lee have survived without crimping for decades.... .

February 22, 2019, 09:46 AM	#7
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	ninosdemente, Check your private messages.

February 22, 2019, 12:51 PM	#8
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	The dies you linked to will work just fine. My own experience with 223 for an AR type rifle is just about any two die set will work just fine with some decent case lube. I happen to use the RCBS #11101 standard dies as well as the RCBS #37201 Comp Dies as well as the RCBS #11107 set you linked to. They all work fine for basic loading of the 223 Remington. Unless you have a high end AR and are shooting competition I doubt you will see much difference. A two die Lee set will serve as well as what I mentioned or about any manufacturer I can think of. I tried and have some of the Lee FCD (Factory Crimp Die) and using it never got me anything in improved group size. Using standard dies with a taper crimp worked just fine. I do suggest if you plan to use something like the Lee FCD you make sure you trim your brass nice and uniform. As to crimp removal? I started with a #2 Phillips screwdriver bit and that worked just fine. The only objective is to allow a new primer to seat uniformly. While I also have some of the fancier tools you really don't need much for starters and to get the job done. Ron

February 22, 2019, 04:53 PM	#9
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	There are no "5.56" dies. Everything you reload will be .223. Some manuals will say the loads are 5.56 but this is mostly because of the bullet weights used.

February 22, 2019, 10:58 PM	#11
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thanks guys for the responses... Still learning the reloading but have successfully loaded .223 and 30-06 for bolt action. Both dies are RCBS. Bubbau, the swage 600 is a bit more that I would like to spend on. Maybe can take advantage if they are ever on sale. ----- Stats Shooter, what don't you like about it? You mentioned it's a bit of a pain. ----- NWPilgrim, thanks. I actually have rock chucker supreme master reloading kit that I got on sale from a store that was closing for less than half the price. Got a RCBS trimmer as it didn't come with it, eventually bought an adapter for $10 to use with a impact. Sure beats having to hand crank, does get uncomfortable after a bit. DO have digital weight scale, and digital calipers. I have read about the one shot spray and the imperial wax, but since the lube and pad came with the kit, I am using that until it runs out. I also have an inertia bullet puller and I agree, a pain in the butt to try and remove one. Unless I don't know how to use it right, it take me sometimes up to 12 times before it finally comes out. ------ std7mag, yes it is 5.56 and it is 1:8RH. ------ Reloadron, what is the main difference between the dies you mentioned? Do they really make a difference when reloading? I only shoot for recreational. Don't think that I will reach competition any time soon. My rifle was only $650, don't think that would be high end rifle. I have also read about using a flat head screwdriver. Trying to stay away from buying that I just wont end up using. ------ Mobuck, thanks. No wonder I couldn't find them.... lol. Should have known better after different sites weren't coming up with what I thought was needed to reload. ------ BWM, thanks. I am not shooting for better groups at the moment, just for fun. To be honest I don't shoot it much, mostly bolt gun. Sometimes I take the AR thinking I will shoot it, then end up not shooting it. Really was more to have one in my small collection. But if I start reloading then yes I am planning to shoot more. The twist rate is 1:8RH.

February 23, 2019, 09:18 AM	#13
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	A 1:8 twist rate will allow you to shoot every bullet weight at least to 77gr. For recreational shooting to 200 yds I like the Hornady 55gr bullets ((FMJ, HP, SP) as they are accurate and less expensive than other quality brands. Milsurp bullets are much less accurate (maybe 2moa instead of 1 moa), and pulled bullets are cheaper and much worse (4moa). But if you are just out for 50 yd blasting fun then any bullet works. For longer ranges I like the Nosler 69 gr or 77 gr BTHP as they are accurate and you can get them almost as cheap as equivalent Hornady when you buy in bulk (600 or 1,000 qty). In smaller 100 count lots the Hornady is still a quality bullet at a much cheaper price than Nosler or Sierra. The main difference in loading for .223 versus 5.56 is the max pressure. The .223 will be 55,000psi and the 5.56 load data will be for 62,000psi. Some powders seem to like to be near max but I try to stay at .223 level or midway between that and 5.56. One thing about loading for the AR is a loose primer pocket can allow a primer to fall out when shot. And it can really jam up the bolt very bad. So when seating primers, if the primer is seated with very little resistance compared to most, just throw that case in the recycle bucket. Usually a case will get a split neck or show signs of case head separation before that. But if you shot a too hot load during testing, for instance, it can accelerate stretching of the primer pocket. I toss out maybe one or two cases per thousand.

February 24, 2019, 11:18 AM	#15
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Reloadron, thanks for explaining the dies you mentioned. Would the same apply for those who load for bolt action as well? ------ NWPilgrim, I haven't gone up to 200 yds yet with AR. To be honest have been always on the 50 yds, but only becuase I am always with a small group so I end up not shooting at the distance I want to do so. As mentioned, I don't shoot the AR much so I still need a lot of practice before I even start moving up to 100 yd or the 200yd. When loading for bolt action I never buy in bulk, but I should start buying as I do get 69gr Nosler CC, Bergers. Would be nice to get Sierra in bulk as the 100 qty are about $10 compared to what I buy. Where do you get yours at? I just started buying stuff from Midway/Brownells, always have bought from Cabelas but they are starting to seem they never have what I need when I walk in. Some online sites I have seen free shipping which helps a bit although may take a bit longer but I can suck it up. Its winter here so not in a rush yet. Thanks for the heads up on the primer pockets. Is there a site where everyone goes to see twist rate and bullet weight? I did a google search and the first 6 links had different weights relative to twist rate. They were not very far off. ------ Stats Shooter, thanks for the explanation. I can see how doing a large quantity would be time consuming. Is it recommended to lube or does it sate on the manual? Have you tried it without lubing by accident? That is the reason why I was contemplating on getting it as it is cheaper but I figured it would have some type of drawback to it. Thanks again.

February 25, 2019, 12:04 AM	#18
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	NWPilgrim, thanks for the link. No problem... I'll keep it down. Lol. ------ Reloadron, thanks for the info. Will make sure to keep an eye out for description on the packages. Reason why I asked about bolt is I have "basic" RCBS dies for both .223 and 30-06. More of a curiosity.

February 25, 2019, 06:41 PM	#20
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thanks. Is there a difference from what I have vs the small base Ar dies? Maybe my ignorance, but sure makes me think there is a difference if they are selling two different dies.

February 25, 2019, 07:18 PM	#21
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Small base dies squeeze the base of the case a bit more narrow than standard sizing die. This will allow sure feeding in chambers that may be a bit snug or carboned up. Personally I have never seen an AR15 that would not feed and extract normally sized dies, and never personally met a reloader who had a problem. Small base sizing will work harden the brass in the base more than normal sizing. So I would not do extra sizing on the brass unless I had a rifle that needed it. Chambers do vary a bit so a small percentage of rifles apparently need this extra squeeze. As far as I know factory brass is not undersized at the base and I don’t hear any complaints about it. Now I may have to go out to the bench and measure some factory ammo versus my RCBS normally sized cases!

February 26, 2019, 09:56 PM	#25
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	NWPilgrim, thanks for the explanation. Perhaps need to make some dummy with .223 dies I currently have then to see if chambering works well. ------ MarkCO, thanks. Do have quite a bit of LC brass. ------ Unclenick, all brass I have is collected from range. Not from my own. I do have Winchester that was fired from my AR but do see LC is recommended to be used instead of others. Is Winchester not that good? I don't have much only between 150-200 if not mistaken. Thanks for the info.