November 5, 2008, 12:21 PM | #126 | |
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When you don't know where the BG is and you go looking for him, he has the advantage and some control over where and how you meet. |
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November 5, 2008, 12:38 PM | #127 | |
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and that's my 1000th post. I'm officially an expert in all things firearms related.
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Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; November 5, 2008 at 01:00 PM. |
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November 5, 2008, 12:52 PM | #128 | |
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I have been thinking of a perp who has had battle experience in buidings in Basrah or Baghdad or some such... Not to impugn any of our fighting men, but those guys gave been through a lot. Your thoughts, peetzakilla? Not that we disagree at all on what to do.... |
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November 5, 2008, 01:11 PM | #129 | |
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In my house I have a HUGE advantage to staying put. All the bedrooms are together on one floor. The area is on the second floor and virtually inaccessible from the lower level thanks to a unique door that is actually a couple stairs up a flight and opens out (toward the bottom of the stairs), making it nearly impossible to kick down. The only other entrance is the main outside door to the second floor which would be very loud to get through and we are on the opposite end of the building meaning the only way to get to me is down a hallway with no doors until my bedroom, a decidedly bad place to be when being shot at. Before anybody got to us I'd have the kids in our room behind the bed with the door shut and blocked, fully loaded 12 ga (soon to be supplemented with a Glock 33) and cops on the phone.
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November 5, 2008, 06:37 PM | #130 |
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Where are all these highly trained/tactical BGs who can beat the best, but who also make enough noise for you to hear? Also, it seems that we keep talking about someone who KNOWS that you are clearing your house. That may not be the case. That being said, when I hear a suspicious noise, I make sure a deadly weapon is close and then wait intently, I'm just arguing devil's advocate. Also, anybody with kids in a separate bedroom (not me), will have to clear at least some of their house (the part between their kids and them).
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November 6, 2008, 07:24 AM | #131 | |
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Needless to say, each house has a different layout. That said, if you don't know where the threat is, and the threat is armed, there is a chance that the threat will know where you are at before you know where the threat is. This kind of siutation can increase the odds that some lead will go flying. However, same scenerio and you lock yourself into the bedroom, call police and inform anyone in the house that you have a firearm and will shoot anyone who tries to take your posistion, I think you increase the chances that lead won't go flying. Chances are that the threat will just leave the situation. For myself, personal property is not worth taking the chance that I or my wife could possibly lose our life over. Besides that, anything worth any money is secured in a decent safe. That said, since I haven't walked a mile in some others shoes, perhaps if I got broken into numerous times, I'd finally get fed up and go after the threat.
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November 6, 2008, 10:43 AM | #132 | ||
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November 6, 2008, 05:55 PM | #133 |
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Last post for me on this one.
My point is, if I hear a noise, I go and investigate. I may or may not have a firearm depending on the time of day, or if I can distinguish the sound/noise. I'm not calling the police for every kid, vehicle, strange noise I hear, and locking myself in the bedroom. Perhaps I am generalizing the word "noise" and others hear are saying a "noise" is "intruder/super ex felon" Hypothetical example: If someone knocks on my door at 2:00 AM in the middle of the night, I'm going to get up, grab my pistol and check by use of a window and outside lights who is there. I am NOT going to bunker down, call 911 and wait for the police. This is only one example, and how I would deal with it. Done.....Let's talk about the 9mm vs. .45ACP again
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November 6, 2008, 06:38 PM | #134 | |
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November 6, 2008, 07:58 PM | #135 | |
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November 7, 2008, 12:36 AM | #136 | |
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November 7, 2008, 01:20 AM | #137 | |
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And while you may be trying to be as quiet as you can, you will still be making some noise. You will be moving. You will be opening doors. It's a very rare house that doesn't have some place where the floor creaks or some door that doesn't make some noise while being opened, or some door knob that doesn't make some sound while being turned. |
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November 7, 2008, 08:45 AM | #138 | |
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From Fiddletown:
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That brings up another thought that I don't think has been discussed here. If the intruder is armed, I think we can reasonably presume him to either flee or shoot without any hesitation upon encountering someone in the house. The resident, on the other hand, has the obligation to first make sure that the person he or she is looking for is not in fact a family member who had gone out and returned, a friend of one of the family whose planned arrival had not been discussed, an inebriated neighbor in the wrong house, someone who found the door ajar and came in to ensure that everyone was OK, or a fireman who had responded to a call. Identification would require light. Perhaps more importantly, it would seem to me that the difference in the time that each party would need to take before firing would put the resident at an extreme disadvantage when the two meet. Thoughts? |
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November 7, 2008, 01:28 PM | #139 | ||
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November 7, 2008, 05:32 PM | #140 | |
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Squeaky hinges. An odd cold draft from the wrong direction. A change in the smell of the air. A minor shift in the lighting, or a change in the angle of the shadows. Fast breathing from someone under stress. The sound of a man tripping over one of the kids' Legos. (Anyone who's ever walked barefoot through a boy's room late at night hates Legos.) Lots of possibilities to give you away. Holing up is much much smarter, whenever feasible. But we've been circling into "is not!" "is TOO!" territory for awhile now. Probably getting close to time to close the thread. Thoughts? pax |
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November 7, 2008, 06:53 PM | #141 | |
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November 7, 2008, 07:18 PM | #142 | |||||
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November 7, 2008, 10:12 PM | #143 |
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From PAX: But we've been circling into "is not!" "is TOO!" territory for awhile now. Probably getting close to time to close the thread. Thoughts?
Some merit to that. But the next parry provided the opportunity for a constructive reply by Fiddletown. Best points, IMHO, being (1) "but you care who you're shooting at more than the BG does" and (2) "once he notices that you're probably coming after him, now he stays put in a defensible position." Value of continuing? you be the judge. I'm not sure the ideas are getting across. |
November 7, 2008, 10:27 PM | #144 | |
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November 8, 2008, 08:53 AM | #145 | |
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From peetzakiller:
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http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...1&postcount=55 Had to do with the permissibility of using deadly force. Rare, though! |
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November 8, 2008, 11:17 PM | #146 |
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Whoops, moved to a more pertinent topic. Sorry
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Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed. Last edited by Stevie-Ray; November 8, 2008 at 11:35 PM. |
November 8, 2008, 11:26 PM | #147 |
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Gee whiz gang, I step away for a while and we've gone from going outside to check a noise to "clearing the house" indoors.
Since I've had to do this whilst living alone I'll throw my 3-cents worth into the pot. First and most important... No matter what you do, nothing will go quite to plan. The townhome I live in has a door to the garage that connects to the house via the short hall to the master bath (I didn't design the damn thing). One night in the wee hours (so called because that's when you need to wee the most) I heard something fall inside the garage. I rolled over in bed, in my BVD's with my machismo running on high, reached over, wrapped my hand around the 1911 and as I move to get out of bed, I realize that my left arm, which I'd been sleeping on, is entirely numb. So much for an icosolese stance. Off balance, with the numb arm, I fling my legs out of bed and.... slammed the 2nd toe of my left foot into the square edge of a chair leg next to the bed! #&%$!! So now, I'm awake. I suck air, bite my lip and hobble two steps to realize... I'm nearly blind. I can't open my right eyelid because it's stuck to the bottom one. Quickly wipe my eye and I can see. I can see well enough to see both cats curled up on the opposite foot of the bed looking at me like "What the heck are you doin?" I hobble to the door and listen and realize that I'm listening to my heart beating like Gene Krupa playing Sing Sing Sing on his drums. After a couple of slow deep breaths to calm myself, I listen again to... nothing. Just as I half convince myself I imagined the whole thing and reach for the door knob I hear a small thump and the sound of an empty soda can tipping over on the floor. Mentally I exclaim "Ah-ha! I know exactly where that is! I left that can next to the toolbox!" I turn the door knob, fling the door wide open and snap on the lightswitch to the garage. Now... I wanted my voice to sound like a mixture of John Wayne and Ward Bond when I shouted "Don't Move! Who's out there?" Instead, what came out sounded more like a frightened Don Knotts going through puberty. Even I wasn't impressed. Fortunately, after about four seconds of scanning the garage two things became apparent. First (and most importantly) the source of the noise became apparent as my 3rd cat timidly stuck his head around the corner of the toolbox and blurted out a questioning "Prrrrilll?" Second was that in my effort to assume a good crouching stance, something was hanging out of my very non-tactical BVD's. Had this been a real alert, I figure that any bad guy would have dropped to the floor in a fit of hysterical laughter at a wide-eyed, pudgy old guy who resembles Wilford Brimley wearing white boxers with "Mr. Happy" swinging in the breeze and holding a gun. The moral of this lesson is... Think before you act. Do not rush into a confrontation before you are ready. If it's a strange noise outside, use every means at your disposal to identify it without going outside. Your goal is to identify if there really is something worth reporting to 9-1-1, not to apprehend someone.
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BillCA in CA (Unfortunately) Last edited by BillCA; November 8, 2008 at 11:31 PM. |
November 9, 2008, 10:55 AM | #148 |
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BillCA, that's hilarious, have you considered sending that story in to a magazine or something?
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November 9, 2008, 11:25 AM | #149 | |
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I might add that your two other goals are to avoid getting shot and to avoid shooting the wrong person. I know from experience the unusual effects of stress in such a situation. Decades ago I heard a violent interchange downstairs. I picked up a Smith Model 39 and went downstairs. From a hidden position, I could see a man kicking a woman on the floor. He than knocked my mother down. That eliminated the threat of a hostage situation and I confronted the man. I ordered him out the front door, threatening to "perforate" him. I did not recognize my own voice! Turns out the man had been in the woman's car, and she stopped and came to our house for help, entering through an unlocked door. |
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November 9, 2008, 07:16 PM | #150 | |
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