Problem With a 3rd Gen Dragoon

Khumanos · February 23, 2010, 10:18 PM

I bought a 3rd gen dragoon from Texasjack's and it will not cycle the cylinder.

I would like to resolve the issue if i could with out returning it, but that is an option.

I e-mailed them for help (on 2/22) and have not heard a response. The firearm looks great, but at the moment, it is a nice looking brick.

Not sure how to troubleshoot this problem anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

v/r

Khumanos
aka Drew

KevinBeyerJr · February 23, 2010, 10:24 PM

Khumanos,
I had the exact same issue with a .44 Dragoon about a month ago (unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure to shoot it ever since). We ended up getting some Winchester Target Ammo (I am not sure of the grain count), and had that exact same problem. The rim of the bullet turned out to be too thick for the cylinder to revolve. Fortunately/Unfortunately the range had some more expensive hollow point ammo (Cor Bon brand), that worked like a charm.

My biggest curiosity is if the Winchester ammo was a bad batch, or if all of that type doesn't work with the Dragoon.

Khumanos · February 23, 2010, 10:38 PM

Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. My issue happened right out of the box. I did not attempt to load the firearm at any point before my issue. It basicely went "click, click" nothing.

mykeal · February 23, 2010, 11:22 PM

Ok, let's work through this.

I assume you pulled the hammer back and heard two clicks; the cylinder failed to rotate and the hammer would not go into half cock. The hammer did return to the full down position without having to be forced. Is that a correct description?

If so, the problem is that the bolt did not release from the cylinder stop notch. The bolt is spring loaded in the 'up' or 'engaged' position by one leg of the trigger/bolt spring; when the hammer is pulled back a cam on the side of the hammer pushes down on one leg of the bolt and disengages the bolt head from the cylinder stop notch, allowing the cylinder to rotate.

Two possible problems can result in the bolt head not releasing: a broken or misplaced trigger/bolt spring or a broken or misplaced bolt leg. The simplest problem is a loose screw holding the trigger/bolt spring in place, allowing it to come loose and not control bolt motion.

Removing the trigger guard will allow you to see the screw holding the trigger/bolt spring in place; it's the only screw head you can see. It should be tight. You should also be able to see if either of the spring legs is broken. If neither of those conditions exist, remove the screw and the spring. You will be able to see the bolt and where the bolt head protrudes through a hole in the frame to contact the cylinder. Pull the hammer back and you should be able to see how the cam on the side of the hammer pushes the bolt down.

Look for problems in the area described above and let us know what you see. Some pictures would help also.

madcratebuilder · February 24, 2010, 10:34 AM

Just a speculation but maybe the hand spring is broken. Well it rotate the cylinder if held with the barrel down?

Fingers McGee · February 24, 2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Just a speculation but maybe the hand spring is broken. Well it rotate the cylinder if held with the barrel down?

My thoughts exactly.

FM

mykeal · February 24, 2010, 01:47 PM

That would be next on my list, once we determine whether or not the bolt releases when the hammer is pulled back. If the bolt releases so that the cylinder can be rotated by hand, then we'll take a look at the hand/spring assembly.

Fingers McGee · February 24, 2010, 07:50 PM

From his description, I took it to mean that the hammer would cock - "click, click" but the cylinder doesn't turn - "would not cycle". If the bolt didn't drop, the hammer wouldn't cock enough to get the two clicks.

FM

mykeal · February 25, 2010, 07:10 AM

It can generate two clicks if the trigger/bolt spring is misaligned or broken. They're not the usual clicks, however, they're from the broken spring leg caught in the mechanism. I just thought I'd start with the first steps in the cycle.

Khumanos · February 25, 2010, 05:48 PM

Actually, the hammer went into full cock once easily, I lowered the hammer, then went to cock it again. It was a harder pull. I let it down, then tried to cock it again, no joy.

Thus the "click click". I guess I should have been a bit more descriptive. Now the hammer goes back just before half-cock, and nothing moves. I tried this with and without the wedge in.

Again, this right out of the box. I am thinking of just returning it to the store. I bought it online so I didn't get a chance to look it over before I bought it. I have bought firearms from them before and been very pleased. Although I am obviously not too pleased with this one!

Fingers McGee · February 25, 2010, 07:51 PM

That definitely sounds like a bolt problem

mykeal · February 25, 2010, 09:09 PM

Yep. Broken bolt leg or trigger/bolt spring leg.

If you don't feel comfortable disassembling it then return it. It must be taken apart to be repaired.

February 23, 2010, 10:18 PM	#1
Khumanos Member Join Date: December 14, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 59	Problem With a 3rd Gen Dragoon I bought a 3rd gen dragoon from Texasjack's and it will not cycle the cylinder. I would like to resolve the issue if i could with out returning it, but that is an option. I e-mailed them for help (on 2/22) and have not heard a response. The firearm looks great, but at the moment, it is a nice looking brick. Not sure how to troubleshoot this problem anyone have any ideas? Thanks v/r Khumanos aka Drew Last edited by Khumanos; February 23, 2010 at 10:40 PM.

February 23, 2010, 10:24 PM	#2
KevinBeyerJr Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 66	I am probably right... Khumanos, I had the exact same issue with a .44 Dragoon about a month ago (unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure to shoot it ever since). We ended up getting some Winchester Target Ammo (I am not sure of the grain count), and had that exact same problem. The rim of the bullet turned out to be too thick for the cylinder to revolve. Fortunately/Unfortunately the range had some more expensive hollow point ammo (Cor Bon brand), that worked like a charm. My biggest curiosity is if the Winchester ammo was a bad batch, or if all of that type doesn't work with the Dragoon. __________________ "I cannot think of any need in childhood as strong as the need for a father's protection." -- Sigmund Freud Last edited by KevinBeyerJr; February 23, 2010 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Misspelling of a brand name

February 24, 2010, 07:50 PM	#8
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	From his description, I took it to mean that the hammer would cock - "click, click" but the cylinder doesn't turn - "would not cycle". If the bolt didn't drop, the hammer wouldn't cock enough to get the two clicks. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

February 25, 2010, 07:51 PM	#11
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	That definitely sounds like a bolt problem __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

February 23, 2010, 10:38 PM	#3
Khumanos Member Join Date: December 14, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 59	Kevin, Thanks for the reply. My issue happened right out of the box. I did not attempt to load the firearm at any point before my issue. It basicely went "click, click" nothing.

February 23, 2010, 11:22 PM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Ok, let's work through this. I assume you pulled the hammer back and heard two clicks; the cylinder failed to rotate and the hammer would not go into half cock. The hammer did return to the full down position without having to be forced. Is that a correct description? If so, the problem is that the bolt did not release from the cylinder stop notch. The bolt is spring loaded in the 'up' or 'engaged' position by one leg of the trigger/bolt spring; when the hammer is pulled back a cam on the side of the hammer pushes down on one leg of the bolt and disengages the bolt head from the cylinder stop notch, allowing the cylinder to rotate. Two possible problems can result in the bolt head not releasing: a broken or misplaced trigger/bolt spring or a broken or misplaced bolt leg. The simplest problem is a loose screw holding the trigger/bolt spring in place, allowing it to come loose and not control bolt motion. Removing the trigger guard will allow you to see the screw holding the trigger/bolt spring in place; it's the only screw head you can see. It should be tight. You should also be able to see if either of the spring legs is broken. If neither of those conditions exist, remove the screw and the spring. You will be able to see the bolt and where the bolt head protrudes through a hole in the frame to contact the cylinder. Pull the hammer back and you should be able to see how the cam on the side of the hammer pushes the bolt down. Look for problems in the area described above and let us know what you see. Some pictures would help also.

February 24, 2010, 10:34 AM	#5
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Just a speculation but maybe the hand spring is broken. Well it rotate the cylinder if held with the barrel down?

February 24, 2010, 01:47 PM	#7
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	That would be next on my list, once we determine whether or not the bolt releases when the hammer is pulled back. If the bolt releases so that the cylinder can be rotated by hand, then we'll take a look at the hand/spring assembly.

February 25, 2010, 07:10 AM	#9
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	It can generate two clicks if the trigger/bolt spring is misaligned or broken. They're not the usual clicks, however, they're from the broken spring leg caught in the mechanism. I just thought I'd start with the first steps in the cycle.

February 25, 2010, 05:48 PM	#10
Khumanos Member Join Date: December 14, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 59	Actually, the hammer went into full cock once easily, I lowered the hammer, then went to cock it again. It was a harder pull. I let it down, then tried to cock it again, no joy. Thus the "click click". I guess I should have been a bit more descriptive. Now the hammer goes back just before half-cock, and nothing moves. I tried this with and without the wedge in. Again, this right out of the box. I am thinking of just returning it to the store. I bought it online so I didn't get a chance to look it over before I bought it. I have bought firearms from them before and been very pleased. Although I am obviously not too pleased with this one!

February 25, 2010, 09:09 PM	#12
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Yep. Broken bolt leg or trigger/bolt spring leg. If you don't feel comfortable disassembling it then return it. It must be taken apart to be repaired.