hide away knives - Page 2

CWO4USCGRET · May 23, 2006, 11:23 PM

of your argument....

Quote:

In a close quarters (contact distance) situation, I would probably grab my knife before grabbing my gun. I would try to grab a hold of the gun arm first, grab my knife and cut the gun arm across the wrist (down stroke) (hopefully sever tendons and nerves to make him drop the gun). If the bad guy does not drop the gun, he'll get a second cut in the inner bicep area (up stroke)(maybe hit the brachail artery and more nerves). I doubt the bad guy will still be holding the gun but if he is,

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the third cut will be the throat

(backhand stroke). By that time, it won't matter if he is holding the gun.

I am a federal LEO; trained in firearms and unarmed defensive tactics. there are disarming and defensive tactics that can be taught and practiced; they do work; I took a cocked 1911A1 Colt .45 from a Detective Sgt during a training seminar - when the hammer dropped (on a verified empty pistol) the muzzle was pointed at his stomach.

In the real world, the bad guy won't stand while you draw your knife, let alone allow you to try to cut him...at the first sign of offense by you, I really think the bad guy will shoot you...I'm not advocating submission; believe me, I would fight for my life, but I don't think the bad guy would stand still if you went for your knife.

stephen426 · May 24, 2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWO4USCGRET

In the real world, the bad guy won't stand while you draw your knife, let alone allow you to try to cut him...at the first sign of offense by you, I really think the bad guy will shoot you...I'm not advocating submission; believe me, I would fight for my life, but I don't think the bad guy would stand still if you went for your knife.

With all due respect, you you think that you can draw a concealed handgun without getting shot when a bad guy already has his gun drawn on you? I also learned some disarming techniques based on Aikido/Jiujitsu but would not feel 100% comfortable since I haven't practiced them in a long time. I use my knife daily (only on inanimate objects) and can deploy it very quickly. My main point is that a gun is only dangerous in a vector. As long as you are not in front of the muzzle, you are safe. If I HAD to do it, it would probably go like this: hands up, fake submission, half turn to "reach for my wallet", down block with my left and grab the wrist while grabbing my knife with my right, flick open the knife, proceed to slice and dice. I can pretty much guarantee that the bad guy won't be able to disarm me without getting cut up. I'm not going to count on trading gun shots at contact distance. It is better to not get shot at all.

One other thing is only to resist if you feel your life is in danger... PERIOD. I'm not going to risk getting shot for a few bucks and I hope no one here is crazy enough either. If it seems like the bad guy is a "doesn't like witnesses" type of guy, by all means, use whatever you have to fight for your life.

threegun · May 24, 2006, 12:28 PM

I have to agree with Stephen here. If you are fighting for control of the bad guys gun and are in the position to go for your own weapon, the knife is usually easier to access and much harder to get away without getting wounded. I am no knife expert but if I get on you with my cold steel tanto voyager serrated, the doctors better order more sewing thread. Since the knife is a slow killer slashes to areas that control movement are preferable as Bill D. suggested.

Stephen hit the nail on the head. The bad guy also has 2 arms to get your gun if you chose to draw it.

PaladinX13 · May 25, 2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Does anyone use/carry such a small fixed blade? Do they come in handy?

I carried a Emerson La Griffe for a while... while it certainly feels effective as a defensive knife and deploys quickly without a thought, ultimately I stopped carrying it because it wasn't as useful for day-to-day chores needing a knife/SAK/multi-tool and seemed a woeful understudy to a pistol for me.

For myself, a multi-tool has come in handy far more than the awkward cutting surface of a claw-like blade like the Griffe or push-dagger knives like a Safe Keeper (which I also have purely for fun, never actually carry). The tool works well as a fist-load or kubotan... an okay knife if you have time to deploy it... but again is a last resort to my defensive firearm.

stephen426 · May 25, 2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threegun

I have to agree with Stephen here.

Stop the presses... We agree on something? I've have to change my stance now. Just kidding. Watch out or else your going to start installing lasers on all of your guns too!

CWO4USCGRET · May 25, 2006, 05:03 PM

Stephen,

We both have our opinions; I respect your opinion, but don't agree with it.

I want to clarify something that I feel you missed in my previous post; If I am pointing my gun at you I am going to do everything I can to maintain the tactical advantage over you. The most basic thing that I can do (other then the intimination factor of pointing a gun at someone - most people will submit, without a fight, when held at gunpoint.) is to try to maintain control of your hands. I am going to move tactfully and continue to try to maintain my edge...Something that just jumped out at me - Criminals are like Alpha Wolves, searching for the path of least resistance - in other words, finding a soft target. I don't know you, but if I was a bad guy I certainly would find easy prey; you may appear to me to not be a good target and I will leave you alone...and search out easier prey...if you move, or try to defend yourself, I would probably shoot first; remember, I am the baguy...

There are those too who react; many of them do come out winners which in my book is way cool...

stephen426 · May 25, 2006, 10:11 PM

CWO4USCGRET,

I hope I never end up in a situation where you are robbing me. PM me a picture so I know not to resist.

I doubt most bad guys are as tactically knowledgable as you. I would definately size up the bad guy before I did something as foolish as trying to disarm an armed attacker. If the bad guy way out powers me, chances are I won't resist. Maybe I will just give him my wallet and walk away... then I will chase him down and shoot him like a dog!

My question is what difference is there between going for a knife and a gun if

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If I am pointing my gun at you I am going to do everything I can to maintain the tactical advantage over you.

?

This is not a debate as to resist or not to resist. The point I am trying to make is if you decide to resist and your attacker is within contact distance, a knife may be more effective. Like I said, if we are not dealing with contact distance, the gun is the best if not the only option.

I just make sure I walk around with my chest all puffed out and wear most intimidating tacticool outfit in hopes I don't look like an easy target.

CWO4USCGRET · May 25, 2006, 10:47 PM

I doubt most bad guys are as tactically knowledgable as you.

From 1985 - 1988 I was assigned to a Coast Guard Cutter in LA. Across the street from the base was a Federal Prison. I was part of the cutter's law enforcement team doing boardings at sea in suspected smugglers. We participated in quarterly LE Training including defensive tactics and weapons retention/take away. Due to the weather we would generally work outside. The inmates were usually observed the next day practicing counter moves to our tactics. Our prison system is like a grad school for criminal behavior. Unfortunately most seasoned criminals are better prepared then the typical victim.

I know this isn't about resist. My probable best move would be a palm heal strike to create space (to allow me the space to draw; followed by 2 to the chest, 1 to the head....I prefer a gun over a knife; but when the **** hits the fan I'll take what ever edge I can get.

guntotin_fool · May 28, 2006, 12:42 AM

If i can get a hold of the BG;s gun arm, I can get my gun out and get him.

I carry usually two knives all he time. one a pocket folder, the other a AGRussell Sting, a real one from germany. I also have several suits and jackets that have some stitching in them that holds a gerber mk 1 upside down just behind the lapel even in the court house where the make me open the coat and turn around the knife hides in the fold of the lapel. I collect rent and manage several apt buildings that have gone from being decent places to hell holes because section VIII housing rules have hamstrung us. A lot of bangers are scared of guns, but they really hate big sharp knives.

May 25, 2006, 05:03 PM	#31
CWO4USCGRET Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2005 Posts: 197	The debate rages... Stephen, We both have our opinions; I respect your opinion, but don't agree with it. I want to clarify something that I feel you missed in my previous post; If I am pointing my gun at you I am going to do everything I can to maintain the tactical advantage over you. The most basic thing that I can do (other then the intimination factor of pointing a gun at someone - most people will submit, without a fight, when held at gunpoint.) is to try to maintain control of your hands. I am going to move tactfully and continue to try to maintain my edge...Something that just jumped out at me - Criminals are like Alpha Wolves, searching for the path of least resistance - in other words, finding a soft target. I don't know you, but if I was a bad guy I certainly would find easy prey; you may appear to me to not be a good target and I will leave you alone...and search out easier prey...if you move, or try to defend yourself, I would probably shoot first; remember, I am the baguy... There are those too who react; many of them do come out winners which in my book is way cool...

May 25, 2006, 10:47 PM	#33
CWO4USCGRET Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2005 Posts: 197	Tactical Perps I doubt most bad guys are as tactically knowledgable as you. From 1985 - 1988 I was assigned to a Coast Guard Cutter in LA. Across the street from the base was a Federal Prison. I was part of the cutter's law enforcement team doing boardings at sea in suspected smugglers. We participated in quarterly LE Training including defensive tactics and weapons retention/take away. Due to the weather we would generally work outside. The inmates were usually observed the next day practicing counter moves to our tactics. Our prison system is like a grad school for criminal behavior. Unfortunately most seasoned criminals are better prepared then the typical victim. I know this isn't about resist. My probable best move would be a palm heal strike to create space (to allow me the space to draw; followed by 2 to the chest, 1 to the head....I prefer a gun over a knife; but when the **** hits the fan I'll take what ever edge I can get.

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May 24, 2006, 12:28 PM	#28
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	I have to agree with Stephen here. If you are fighting for control of the bad guys gun and are in the position to go for your own weapon, the knife is usually easier to access and much harder to get away without getting wounded. I am no knife expert but if I get on you with my cold steel tanto voyager serrated, the doctors better order more sewing thread. Since the knife is a slow killer slashes to areas that control movement are preferable as Bill D. suggested. Stephen hit the nail on the head. The bad guy also has 2 arms to get your gun if you chose to draw it.

May 28, 2006, 12:42 AM	#34
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	If i can get a hold of the BG;s gun arm, I can get my gun out and get him. I carry usually two knives all he time. one a pocket folder, the other a AGRussell Sting, a real one from germany. I also have several suits and jackets that have some stitching in them that holds a gerber mk 1 upside down just behind the lapel even in the court house where the make me open the coat and turn around the knife hides in the fold of the lapel. I collect rent and manage several apt buildings that have gone from being decent places to hell holes because section VIII housing rules have hamstrung us. A lot of bangers are scared of guns, but they really hate big sharp knives.