Belgian Rolling Block Rifle?

elisivick · December 22, 2014, 03:50 PM

Hi all,

I am trying to identify what type of rifle this is and locate a trigger guard for it. This was a friends great uncles and I cleaned it up and restored as best as I could. From the proof marks I think it is a Belgian "Perron" rolling block rifle but I an not an expert?

I have pictures but they are too large to post? Figured out how to get the resolution down. Pictures attached...

mapsjanhere · December 22, 2014, 04:25 PM

Can you post more detailed pictures of the lock area, especially in open condition? And what caliber is the barrel? By first look it looks more like a Flobert - Warnant type mechanism than a rolling block.

elisivick · December 22, 2014, 05:32 PM

Here is a picture of the lock area opened...

Also, the proof marks are Liege, Inspectors mark for firearms "Perron"

Magnum Wheel Man · December 22, 2014, 05:51 PM

as MAP indicated, it's likely most like a Flowbert, or possibly a Stevens Crack Shot...

is it 22 caliber ???

since you are asking specifically about the trigger guard, how about a pic where it attaches, with a tape measure along side ???

elisivick · December 22, 2014, 08:35 PM

So I've posted two more pictures. One of the proof marks, the other of the trigger guard cutout...

mapsjanhere · December 23, 2014, 08:19 AM

8 mm Flobert rifle with Warnant lock. If you can find ammo it probably cost more than the gun is worth. Hang on wall and enjoy.

elisivick · December 23, 2014, 08:41 AM

Hey, thanks for the information. It was only meant to be a wall hanger. I cleaned it up for my buddy, just trying to locate the trigger guard and a little history.

mapsjanhere · December 23, 2014, 09:54 AM

Flobert guns were basically designed for percussion caps with a bullet on top, no or minimal powder charge. The original design had just a strong hammer spring, and the hammer served as "lock" on the end of the cartridge to provide the gas seal. Warnant introduced that intermediary transfer piece that held the cartridge in place, so I have to look up whether the rolling block of the lifting block came first. The most common calibers are 6 mm Flobert and 9 mm Flobert shot. The big danger with these guns is that they often can fit a 22 lr into the chamber, but the mechanism isn't nearly strong enough for that cartridge in the long run.
There's basically no chance to identify a maker or find spare parts on most of the Belgian guns (it's probably over 100 years old), so if you want a trigger guard you better start a little home smiting.

Jim Watson · December 23, 2014, 10:40 AM

It is the "rolling block" version of Flobert.
The block and its pins are small and weak, it is no way comparable to even the smallest Remington Rolling Block.

The only source of a trigger guard I can think of would be from a junker Flobert in even worse shape.

Sears & Roebuck 1901 catalog says: "WE DO NOT RECOMMEND NOR GUARANTEE FLOBERT RIFLES. We recommend (stock numbers for) Peiper true rolling block or Stevens Crack Shot."

A type 2 Flobert, nothing backing up the case but a heavy hammer, but with an actual extractor not used on the type 1, was $1.60, the "Remington system" Flobert like the OP's was $2.25, the Warnant "trapdoor" Flobert was $2.60.

The stronger Peiper was $2.55 and the Stevens Crack Shot was $2.95.
A Remington No 6 was $3.75 and the least real Remington Rolling Block .22 was a whopping $5.00.

elisivick · December 24, 2014, 08:19 AM

I want to thank everyone that took the time to answer my questions. I actually did find a trigger guard on Gunbroker, not sure it is correct but I can make it close enough for a display piece.

December 22, 2014, 04:25 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Can you post more detailed pictures of the lock area, especially in open condition? And what caliber is the barrel? By first look it looks more like a Flobert - Warnant type mechanism than a rolling block. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 22, 2014, 05:51 PM	#4
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	as MAP indicated, it's likely most like a Flowbert, or possibly a Stevens Crack Shot... is it 22 caliber ??? since you are asking specifically about the trigger guard, how about a pic where it attaches, with a tape measure along side ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

December 23, 2014, 08:19 AM	#6
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	8 mm Flobert rifle with Warnant lock. If you can find ammo it probably cost more than the gun is worth. Hang on wall and enjoy. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 23, 2014, 09:54 AM	#8
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Flobert guns were basically designed for percussion caps with a bullet on top, no or minimal powder charge. The original design had just a strong hammer spring, and the hammer served as "lock" on the end of the cartridge to provide the gas seal. Warnant introduced that intermediary transfer piece that held the cartridge in place, so I have to look up whether the rolling block of the lifting block came first. The most common calibers are 6 mm Flobert and 9 mm Flobert shot. The big danger with these guns is that they often can fit a 22 lr into the chamber, but the mechanism isn't nearly strong enough for that cartridge in the long run. There's basically no chance to identify a maker or find spare parts on most of the Belgian guns (it's probably over 100 years old), so if you want a trigger guard you better start a little home smiting. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 24, 2014, 08:19 AM	#10
elisivick Junior Member Join Date: December 22, 2014 Posts: 5	Thanks! I want to thank everyone that took the time to answer my questions. I actually did find a trigger guard on Gunbroker, not sure it is correct but I can make it close enough for a display piece.

December 23, 2014, 08:41 AM	#7
elisivick Junior Member Join Date: December 22, 2014 Posts: 5	Hey, thanks for the information. It was only meant to be a wall hanger. I cleaned it up for my buddy, just trying to locate the trigger guard and a little history.

December 23, 2014, 10:40 AM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	It is the "rolling block" version of Flobert. The block and its pins are small and weak, it is no way comparable to even the smallest Remington Rolling Block. The only source of a trigger guard I can think of would be from a junker Flobert in even worse shape. Sears & Roebuck 1901 catalog says: "WE DO NOT RECOMMEND NOR GUARANTEE FLOBERT RIFLES. We recommend (stock numbers for) Peiper true rolling block or Stevens Crack Shot." A type 2 Flobert, nothing backing up the case but a heavy hammer, but with an actual extractor not used on the type 1, was $1.60, the "Remington system" Flobert like the OP's was $2.25, the Warnant "trapdoor" Flobert was $2.60. The stronger Peiper was $2.55 and the Stevens Crack Shot was $2.95. A Remington No 6 was $3.75 and the least real Remington Rolling Block .22 was a whopping $5.00.