Win. 94 cartridge guide removal

oldandslow · April 13, 2012, 04:41 AM

Hi folks, 4/13/12

I inherited a Winchester 94 30-30 about forty years ago, originally made in 1946. It's finish is pretty worn down to bare metal in many places. I am planning on refinishing it so have detail stripped it down to its many small parts plus the barreled action and magazine tube. Two of the small parts that had to come out are the right and left cartridge guides held in place by small screws accessable only from the inside of the frame. I made a small screwdriver by filing and grinding the ends of an offset screwdriver which worked well, just a bit tedious.

So the big question which I could not find after internet searches and TFL and THR searches is- what screwdriving tool can I buy to make the job of removal and replacement easier? I emailed the same question to the guntech guys at Brownells but no answer yet.

I should be able to get it all back together as I used a number of internet disassembly instructions and wrote down each step and illustrated each step while doing the takedown (famous last words).

thanks- best wishes - oldandslow

Hawg · April 13, 2012, 09:48 AM

There's no point in taking them out.

Scorch · April 13, 2012, 11:09 AM

There are holes in the frame opposite the screw heads, IIRC.

oldandslow · April 13, 2012, 04:50 PM

Thanks for the suggestions,

I got an answer from the Brownell's guntech guys. They said I have to make my own offset screwdriver (which is what I had already done) because no one makes a driver small enough to fit into the receiver and remove the screws.

I'm sure I am not the only one who has had to remove these screws so I still wonder what other people are doing.

Scorch- I may be able to fit a mini-driver inside one of the screw holes to reach the screw on the opposite side but that only works for one screw. I still need to use the offset driver to tighten the other.

best wishes- oldandslow

James K · April 13, 2012, 04:57 PM

There are no holes in the frame, but the post-64 guns have the screw heads on the outside. I wonder why it only took them 70 years to think of that!

Oldandslow, for the old guns, if the guides have to be removed, the only way is to do what just what you did. And yes, it is tedious and a real PITA.

If doing more than one, you can rig up one of those small ratchet wrenches and modify a power screwdriver bit. But Hawg is right; unless they have to be changed or repaired, there is no need to take them out. They can stay in for any other purpose, including tank bluing.

Jim

oldandslow · April 13, 2012, 07:32 PM

James,

Thanks for the input. I'm looking at a more rust and abrasion resistant finish than bluing. I could hard-chrome it at Techplate like some of my other guns but I'd like a darker finish. Techplate usually asks that the parts to be refinished be completely disassembled, thus removing the cartridge guides.

I suppose I could always tap a hole into the cartridge guides, enlarge the holes in the receiver and put in an oversized screw from the outside. I wonder how the Winchester folks put in the original screws into the inside of the receiver?

best wishes- oldandslow

Fleet · April 14, 2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

I wonder how the Winchester folks put in the original screws into the inside of the receiver?

Slowly. But at the time, the cost of labor wasn't really a concern.

Binky Nabob · December 9, 2016, 01:50 PM

Some years ago, I changed a 30-30 to 38-55 not realizing that there were different cartridge guides used. For some time, I used shortened cartridges in order to make it feed but felt it reduced accuracy. So, the other day, I decided to install the proper guides and I have some advice. First, I made a narrow off-set screwdriver out of a 3' piece of 3/8x1/4" bar and a couple of 1/8" hex bits. These could have been bigger but they worked. You do need to remove the bolt and whatever comes before that. You also need to remove the reloading gate. Now, if I were ever to do it again, God forbid, is how it would go. First loosen the left guide's screw with the off-set. You can then use a small long-shanked screwdriver to do the rest through the loading gate. Then loosen the right with the offset, then remove with the tiny screwdriver through the left screw hole. Then replace the right, screwing it into place with the tiny driver and tightening with the off-set. Then do the left, using the little screwdriver first through the loading gate and then tightening with the off-set. Simple. I wish I had done it this way the first time.

Slopemeno · December 9, 2016, 05:30 PM

I wouldn't remove them, even for plating.

Ask your plater if he removes the plunger housing on a 1911, or the staked in front sight on a 1911 when he refinishes one.

Binky Nabob · March 27, 2017, 03:59 PM

Here is a pic of the offset screwdriver I made out of 3" piece of 3/8x1/4" bar and a pair of small screwdriver bits from the hardware store. It worked pretty good and took longer to make than to replace the guides.

dahermit · March 27, 2017, 04:19 PM

Zombie thread...five years old.

Binky Nabob · June 11, 2017, 06:20 PM

Timeless though. I don't think that I am the last guy who will try it. I thought it might help some other schmuck who might get a wild hare/hair in his private places. Actually, I had to use the dreaded Dremel tool to get it to work properly. I only wish that I hadn't tried to convert it to a pistol grip stock in the process. Looks good, though. From a distance.
Binky

April 13, 2012, 04:41 AM	#1
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	Win. 94 cartridge guide removal Hi folks, 4/13/12 I inherited a Winchester 94 30-30 about forty years ago, originally made in 1946. It's finish is pretty worn down to bare metal in many places. I am planning on refinishing it so have detail stripped it down to its many small parts plus the barreled action and magazine tube. Two of the small parts that had to come out are the right and left cartridge guides held in place by small screws accessable only from the inside of the frame. I made a small screwdriver by filing and grinding the ends of an offset screwdriver which worked well, just a bit tedious. So the big question which I could not find after internet searches and TFL and THR searches is- what screwdriving tool can I buy to make the job of removal and replacement easier? I emailed the same question to the guntech guys at Brownells but no answer yet. I should be able to get it all back together as I used a number of internet disassembly instructions and wrote down each step and illustrated each step while doing the takedown (famous last words). thanks- best wishes - oldandslow

April 13, 2012, 11:09 AM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	There are holes in the frame opposite the screw heads, IIRC. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

December 9, 2016, 01:50 PM	#8
Binky Nabob Junior Member Join Date: November 27, 2014 Posts: 3	Changing cartridge guides on pre-64 Winchester 94 Some years ago, I changed a 30-30 to 38-55 not realizing that there were different cartridge guides used. For some time, I used shortened cartridges in order to make it feed but felt it reduced accuracy. So, the other day, I decided to install the proper guides and I have some advice. First, I made a narrow off-set screwdriver out of a 3' piece of 3/8x1/4" bar and a couple of 1/8" hex bits. These could have been bigger but they worked. You do need to remove the bolt and whatever comes before that. You also need to remove the reloading gate. Now, if I were ever to do it again, God forbid, is how it would go. First loosen the left guide's screw with the off-set. You can then use a small long-shanked screwdriver to do the rest through the loading gate. Then loosen the right with the offset, then remove with the tiny screwdriver through the left screw hole. Then replace the right, screwing it into place with the tiny driver and tightening with the off-set. Then do the left, using the little screwdriver first through the loading gate and then tightening with the off-set. Simple. I wish I had done it this way the first time.

March 27, 2017, 03:59 PM	#10
Binky Nabob Junior Member Join Date: November 27, 2014 Posts: 3	Offset screwdriver Here is a pic of the offset screwdriver I made out of 3" piece of 3/8x1/4" bar and a pair of small screwdriver bits from the hardware store. It worked pretty good and took longer to make than to replace the guides.

April 13, 2012, 09:48 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	There's no point in taking them out.

April 13, 2012, 04:50 PM	#4
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	Thanks for the suggestions, I got an answer from the Brownell's guntech guys. They said I have to make my own offset screwdriver (which is what I had already done) because no one makes a driver small enough to fit into the receiver and remove the screws. I'm sure I am not the only one who has had to remove these screws so I still wonder what other people are doing. Scorch- I may be able to fit a mini-driver inside one of the screw holes to reach the screw on the opposite side but that only works for one screw. I still need to use the offset driver to tighten the other. best wishes- oldandslow

April 13, 2012, 04:57 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There are no holes in the frame, but the post-64 guns have the screw heads on the outside. I wonder why it only took them 70 years to think of that! Oldandslow, for the old guns, if the guides have to be removed, the only way is to do what just what you did. And yes, it is tedious and a real PITA. If doing more than one, you can rig up one of those small ratchet wrenches and modify a power screwdriver bit. But Hawg is right; unless they have to be changed or repaired, there is no need to take them out. They can stay in for any other purpose, including tank bluing. Jim

April 13, 2012, 07:32 PM	#6
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	James, Thanks for the input. I'm looking at a more rust and abrasion resistant finish than bluing. I could hard-chrome it at Techplate like some of my other guns but I'd like a darker finish. Techplate usually asks that the parts to be refinished be completely disassembled, thus removing the cartridge guides. I suppose I could always tap a hole into the cartridge guides, enlarge the holes in the receiver and put in an oversized screw from the outside. I wonder how the Winchester folks put in the original screws into the inside of the receiver? best wishes- oldandslow

December 9, 2016, 05:30 PM	#9
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I wouldn't remove them, even for plating. Ask your plater if he removes the plunger housing on a 1911, or the staked in front sight on a 1911 when he refinishes one.

March 27, 2017, 04:19 PM	#11
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Zombie thread...five years old.

June 11, 2017, 06:20 PM	#12
Binky Nabob Junior Member Join Date: November 27, 2014 Posts: 3	Timeless though. I don't think that I am the last guy who will try it. I thought it might help some other schmuck who might get a wild hare/hair in his private places. Actually, I had to use the dreaded Dremel tool to get it to work properly. I only wish that I hadn't tried to convert it to a pistol grip stock in the process. Looks good, though. From a distance. Binky