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January 17, 2011, 07:36 PM | #1 |
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What would be the best Milsurp Rifle?
Hey guys, this is my first visit to TFL so nice to meet yall. Anyway... I've been wondering... I want to get into collecting Milsurp firearms because I just love historic rifles! (The only 2 I own right now are 91/30 Nagants but I love em'!) I want to get your opinions of what the best milsurp would be in terms of accuracy, availability, ammo cost and how easy it is to find, and spare parts assuming the rifle is too expensive to just replace if it breaks. I am ignorant in the case of milsurps so... all your answers and insight is appreciated!
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January 17, 2011, 07:37 PM | #2 |
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K31 is a great rifle.
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January 17, 2011, 08:36 PM | #3 |
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K-31 isnthe BEST milsurp
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January 17, 2011, 08:48 PM | #4 |
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I own quite a few milsurps. It would be very hard to pick "the best". My K31 is the most accurate - heck, it's more accurate than a lot of my modern bolt guns. The Mosin is pretty accurate, plus, I can use it to chop wood and paddle my canoe. If I put the bayonet on it, I can roast a small pig using the bayo as a spit. The No. 4 Mk I* SMLE is the easiest to carry; it balances just right. The K98s and the Type 99 have non-rotating claw extractors and are extremely reliable. The Steyr M95 is short and handy, and the straight-pull action is fast. The 1903A3 shoots my favorite hunting cartridge as does the Garand, which feeds my nostalgia. The M1 Carbine is the most fun centerfire plinker I own.
I don't think there is a "best". I think you need to own a bunch of milsurps so that you can enjoy all their traits. |
January 17, 2011, 09:50 PM | #5 |
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Milsurplover,
If I were you - These would be at the top of my list: 8x57 German Mauser 98k 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser m96 7.5x55 Swiss K31 Schmidt-Ruben .303 British P14 Enfield PS: for pure shooting fun I'd add a 22LR Romanian 1969 Trainer |
January 17, 2011, 10:05 PM | #6 |
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If the 8mm 98K is a bit too spendy, consider the VZ-24. As with all rifles, accuracy varies amongst individuals, but as a whole, I think that the VZ-24 is the equal of the 98K, just without the notoriety.
Look out for Enfields too. They can be quite accurate, although surplus ammo has dried up.
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January 17, 2011, 10:46 PM | #7 |
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my vz isn't as accurate as my mossins
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January 17, 2011, 11:25 PM | #8 |
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While I love LOVE the M1 Garand, my favorite is the Enfield No.5Mk.1 jungle carbine. It carries wonderfully, has excellent sights that I find easier to adjust than anything else I own, and its, surprisingly, VERY accurate. I'm still working on loving my K31, its showing potential, but i've not had enough range time with it yet to fall for it.
GregM |
January 17, 2011, 11:27 PM | #9 |
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Most accurate milsurps are swedes and k31s, followed by 1903s
WildinmyhumbleopinionAlaska ™©2002-2011 |
January 18, 2011, 07:43 AM | #10 |
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That is entirely subjective and going to be based to a degree on your life experiences. IMO the "best" is a M-1 Garand. By best I mean the last one I would want my collection to be without.
This is purely subjective and personal choice, but I think the M-1 is the most fun surplus rifle I have shot. For me I also like the American heritage, the complexity and the workmanship that went into it. I did not expect to like it as much as I do when I bought it. After hefting and firing one you get a real appreciation for it and its firepower. Being raised on smaller modern military-type semi-auto rifles and having shot a bunch, having a semi-auto 30-06 made a real impression on me. After that my second would be a Turkish Mauser. Not because they are special per se but because I've lived in Turkey so they have a certain value to me that is not reflective in their price or how they would be valued by others. I would really like a 1903 Sprinfield, and if I had one it might get the nod but they are too expensive for me right now. |
January 18, 2011, 09:10 AM | #11 |
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If I were just starting to collect, I would first go after the rifles that were WW2 service firearms. Some of these are still a bargain & their prices will go up. Many are , or near , 100 years old. Save up your money & only collect good grade rather than cheaper ones. Matching #'s are most desirable .
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January 18, 2011, 11:03 AM | #12 |
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I'm still getting tears in my eyes when I see those adds from the 60's selling G43 for $69, and K98 for $15. Get them while you can still get them .
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January 18, 2011, 12:48 PM | #13 |
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I enjoy the history behind the rifle, the meaning of all the different markings. My first choice would be the No4 Enfield, Mausers, Swiss K's.
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January 18, 2011, 02:22 PM | #14 |
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In one sense, the K-31, fine rifle that it is, has no history. Switzerland was neutral in both World Wars, so their rifles were used in no battles, were never carried in triumph or surrendered in defeat. Collectible, yes. An interesting design, yes. But historic, well maybe not.
I am reminded of a story that was told when the Swiss adopted the StG57. The American military attache in Bern was shown one by a Swiss captain and remarked that, like all Swiss machinery, it was made like a fine watch. How, he wondered aloud, would it do in the jungle or the desert. The Swiss officer, knowing that Swiss policy was solely to defend their country, not to mount expeditionary forces, looked out the window at the pristine mountains and clear air, and asked, "What jungle? What desert?" Jim |
January 18, 2011, 07:13 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
I will have to disagree with Jim though. There is more to history than combat experience. The k-31 has a unique history. It is the only rifle ever issued by a government that never lived in a arsenal somewhere. The Swiss took their rifles and ammunition home. They were drilled with, shot, and cared for by the same owner from issue till retirement. No other milsurp in the world can say that.
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January 18, 2011, 07:19 PM | #16 |
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Milsurps are for history, shooting is secondary. For simple shooting, a US M1903 or M1917 is best, ammunition readily available. Or an M-1 Carbine. The M-1 Garand has lot of history but as the more knowledgeable M-1 aficionados will tell you, you must be careful about using commercial ammunition in it. The Swiss rifles have no
"history", are superbly made, take a rather rare cartridge. Lee Enfields saw lots of action, finding one in "correct" configuration can be tricky due to rebuilds, the wide variety of subcontracted parts they used, bore diameters vary a great deal. French Rifles such as the Lebel and M1907 and M1907/15 have lots of history, take a pretty rare cartridge, are fairly scarce. Mausers come in lots of varieties. |
January 18, 2011, 07:35 PM | #17 |
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Not a lot of history behind them, but the Yugo M48 is worth a look. Inexpensive, great design (Mauser), and can be found in like new condition.
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January 19, 2011, 03:22 PM | #18 |
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I hear a lot about this M48 mauser but I have yet to come across one on the internet anyone here know somewhere I could go about looking for one of these? I've decided there's no way I can get 1 of these.. On the top of my list so far is an M39 Finnish Mosin, Swiss K31, Either a german 98k or one of the 98k clones, an Enfield No. 4 Mk 1, and am strongly considering a Springfield 03 or 03A3.. my only problem is I don't know what my first choice would be! Further information is greatly appreciated! Thanks to everyone so far
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January 19, 2011, 03:44 PM | #19 |
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A fully functioning, free one, would be the best to me...
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January 20, 2011, 10:03 AM | #20 | |
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Quote:
But, since I did not have any great grandfathers fighting for Switzerland in the world wars, I will be looking to buy a K-31 someday for myself. |
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January 20, 2011, 06:42 PM | #21 |
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My vote goes to the 1909 Argentine Mausers
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January 20, 2011, 07:57 PM | #22 |
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Milsurplover:
Among other people who know their guns, madcratebuilder really know his Enfields. If you want the ease of aperture sights and really good value, an Enfield #4 and then a 'Service Grade' Garand from the CMP are recommended. The Enfield #5's recoil is not as bad as what many people claim, but there are many imitations. My shoulders are skinny, but standing or sitting upright with a "chickenwing" keeps the recoil more comfy than with my Yugo Mauser. My first "Jungle Carbine" came from "Joesalter.com". You look much longer to find a good Enfield #4 or #5 (except on "Joesalter"), therefore searching for a good Garand need not be in haste. Last edited by Ignition Override; January 20, 2011 at 08:03 PM. |
January 20, 2011, 08:12 PM | #23 |
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Jim, while no major offensives were to the K31's credit....they did kill some nazis in border clashes. One involved a a french town being ransacked by the SS, with german gunfire directed toward the swiss side of the town...the swiss troopers showed the SS thier marksmanship training in return with k31 and machinegun fire ...stopping the slaughter of french civilans and routing the SS from the town with heavy SS causulties.
the K31 guarded the Vatican in the hands of the swiss guard unit for several decades(till the sig 550 5.56mm) a few german and american airmen were killed with the k31 during escape attempts from swiss P.O.W. camps. The K31 was fired in anger.
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January 20, 2011, 08:41 PM | #24 |
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From personal experience, the M1917 Eddystone is very nice and accurate. Enfield SMLE's are quite interesting and fun. Also in the very accurate department is the Carl Gustaf Swedish Mauser. Mosin–Nagant's as also fascinating and happen to be very plentiful lately, both in 91/30 (which I need to get) and M44 iterations. The Egyptian Haakim rifle is a hell of a blast, literally. I recently acquired a Polish made Tokarev that I've taken quite a liking to. Others that I'd suggest, that are on my "need to get list" are a Swiss K-31, Russian Makarov, German K98, Argentine or Chilean Mauser in 7X57, 1895 Nagant revolver and a CZ-70 for starters. Of coarse an M14, Garand, M1 Carbine and Springfield 1903 would be great as well to add to any collection. Sadly, since they've all been raised up to ridiculously over inflated prices over the last 15 years I'll probably never have any of them. But if money is no object then by all means go for it.
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January 26, 2011, 07:09 AM | #25 |
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Get em all, one of each ... that's where my collection has gone but my main area of interest is the Enfield rifles. I have out shot scoped modern rifles from the off hand position at 200 yards at my range using my 1942 Lithgow No1 MkIII* using irons ... much to the chagrin of those further down the line. No problems with accuracy and Enfields, I load my own ammo as well.
( I don't really class the K31 as a Milsurp ... as it was not used by a combatant nation and never really saw dedicated action - it's a nice target rifle, but not really a legit battle rifle ) Tiki.
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