lasers and rail mounted lights... AGAIN

boogeyman · July 7, 2005, 09:14 AM

yes, i know we have all gotten in an argument or two with regards to lasers and lights. no one ever seems to agree on them, yada yada yada. well, this post is NOT to rekindle a war of any sort. most of all this is just my curiosity running wild.
i was wondering if anyone who originally objected the laser/light idea has changed their mind? what lead to this change? do you now have a laser and/or light unit on one or more of your guns?

Marty Hayes · July 7, 2005, 10:07 AM

Yes.

When they first came out, I wasn't too impressed. But, after seeing the benefits that a laser brings in a low light environment, (they don't do much in a daylight shooting situation), I decided to get one, and start exploring.

After about 6 years or so of using the Crimson Trace products, I firmly believe that they are extremely useful in low light situations. My advice is to turn out the lights and test the laser against night sights, flashlight and stock sights. The proof is in the shooting.

boogeyman · July 7, 2005, 03:34 PM

anyone else?

anyone know of more evidence as to whether they were a +/- for another shooter; and, furthermore, what was the cause?

come on i know there has to be a person out there who will speak their mind on lasers.

i came across some money and am looking at either a laser like crimson trace or lasermax, or i'm going to purchase a light for my, soon to be in my hands, 92 vertec. i really need help on this issue because it does mean a bit to me. the two light i'm considering are the x200 and M3X. opinions?

black bear 84 · July 7, 2005, 06:44 PM

I have two crimson Trace laser grips, one in a Colt Gov't and the other in a Chief Special .38
They are great!!
To me the special holster to carry a pistol with a light is not viable (as a civilian) and I want more light than 60 or 100 lumens that is typical of pistol lights.
The light on my belt when I am carrying is a Surefire C-3 with P-91 lamp and was for years a Surefire 9 P with the same 200 lumen lamp.
If I am home or out in my car and I have a situation at night were I have to use a light in conjuction with the pistol, my light is a MAG 951 (for 951 lumens, the most powerful flashlight in the world)
With that I can really blind somebody and have all the advantages of seeing all that the massive input of this light is showing me.

My son is modeling this one (sorry for finger in trigger)

I also have lights and laser in my rifles, they allow me too shoot fast without putting the gun in my shoulder.

black bear 84

Stiletto · July 8, 2005, 03:40 PM

You really ought to fire from your shoulder anyway (for control if nothing else), just that a laser allows for really quick acquisition and lets you look around unlike how sights induce tunnel vision as you focus down at your target.

About that middle rifle, you probably ought to put the battery pack somewhere else. Even if you never actually let the barrel heat up massively, it's still going to leave goo and whatnot.

black bear 84 · July 8, 2005, 03:49 PM

That is not battery pack in the barrel of the Mini 14, it is a laser with inside batteries.
The light is a TACM III that runs in two 123's
The barrel mount is metal, so don't goo to run anyway.

A laser will let you shoot from behind barricades without exposing yourself, as when you expose yourself when you are directly behind the rifle.

Monty · July 10, 2005, 12:50 AM

I can't wait!!!

buffalo_bore · July 10, 2005, 01:01 AM

I like the setup on the pump shotgun. Not so sure about the electrical tape holding everything in place on the mini.

MartinR · July 11, 2005, 11:05 AM

My main objection is that a laser makes a nice target - for the bad guy. That objection has not changed.

For night shooting I prefer a method I learned from D.R. Middlebrooks (FIST-FIRE). One hand on your pistol, the other on your flashlight with the light illuminating your sights, squared up to your opponent. IMHO this provides a better deterant and the type of sights you use is less important.

This is similar to the picture shown in a previous post (except squared up to target and activating light with thumb). We also train with the finger out of the trigger guard.

July 7, 2005, 09:14 AM	#1
boogeyman Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2005 Location: west palm beach Posts: 172	lasers and rail mounted lights... AGAIN yes, i know we have all gotten in an argument or two with regards to lasers and lights. no one ever seems to agree on them, yada yada yada. well, this post is NOT to rekindle a war of any sort. most of all this is just my curiosity running wild. i was wondering if anyone who originally objected the laser/light idea has changed their mind? what lead to this change? do you now have a laser and/or light unit on one or more of your guns? Last edited by boogeyman; July 7, 2005 at 03:37 PM. Reason: just wondering if i should stay with my handheld

July 7, 2005, 10:07 AM	#2
Marty Hayes Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Posts: 244	Yes. When they first came out, I wasn't too impressed. But, after seeing the benefits that a laser brings in a low light environment, (they don't do much in a daylight shooting situation), I decided to get one, and start exploring. After about 6 years or so of using the Crimson Trace products, I firmly believe that they are extremely useful in low light situations. My advice is to turn out the lights and test the laser against night sights, flashlight and stock sights. The proof is in the shooting. __________________ Marty Hayes, President The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, LLC. www.armedcitizensnetwork.org

July 10, 2005, 12:50 AM	#7
Monty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: Charleston, WV, USA Posts: 162	I can't wait!!! __________________ TacticalGearReview.com - Review Site for All Things Tactical Buy, sell and trade guns in WV - WVGunSwap.com

July 10, 2005, 01:01 AM	#8
buffalo_bore Member Join Date: June 21, 2005 Posts: 57	I like the setup on the pump shotgun. Not so sure about the electrical tape holding everything in place on the mini. __________________ You're no daisy. You're no daisy at all. Val Kilmer-Tombstone

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July 7, 2005, 03:34 PM	#3
boogeyman Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2005 Location: west palm beach Posts: 172	anyone else? anyone know of more evidence as to whether they were a +/- for another shooter; and, furthermore, what was the cause? come on i know there has to be a person out there who will speak their mind on lasers. i came across some money and am looking at either a laser like crimson trace or lasermax, or i'm going to purchase a light for my, soon to be in my hands, 92 vertec. i really need help on this issue because it does mean a bit to me. the two light i'm considering are the x200 and M3X. opinions?

July 7, 2005, 06:44 PM	#4
black bear 84 Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Posts: 246	I have two crimson Trace laser grips, one in a Colt Gov't and the other in a Chief Special .38 They are great!! To me the special holster to carry a pistol with a light is not viable (as a civilian) and I want more light than 60 or 100 lumens that is typical of pistol lights. The light on my belt when I am carrying is a Surefire C-3 with P-91 lamp and was for years a Surefire 9 P with the same 200 lumen lamp. If I am home or out in my car and I have a situation at night were I have to use a light in conjuction with the pistol, my light is a MAG 951 (for 951 lumens, the most powerful flashlight in the world) With that I can really blind somebody and have all the advantages of seeing all that the massive input of this light is showing me. My son is modeling this one (sorry for finger in trigger) I also have lights and laser in my rifles, they allow me too shoot fast without putting the gun in my shoulder. black bear 84

July 8, 2005, 03:40 PM	#5
Stiletto Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2005 Posts: 388	You really ought to fire from your shoulder anyway (for control if nothing else), just that a laser allows for really quick acquisition and lets you look around unlike how sights induce tunnel vision as you focus down at your target. About that middle rifle, you probably ought to put the battery pack somewhere else. Even if you never actually let the barrel heat up massively, it's still going to leave goo and whatnot.

July 8, 2005, 03:49 PM	#6
black bear 84 Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Posts: 246	That is not battery pack in the barrel of the Mini 14, it is a laser with inside batteries. The light is a TACM III that runs in two 123's The barrel mount is metal, so don't goo to run anyway. A laser will let you shoot from behind barricades without exposing yourself, as when you expose yourself when you are directly behind the rifle.

July 11, 2005, 11:05 AM	#9
MartinR Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2005 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 134	My main objection is that a laser makes a nice target - for the bad guy. That objection has not changed. For night shooting I prefer a method I learned from D.R. Middlebrooks (FIST-FIRE). One hand on your pistol, the other on your flashlight with the light illuminating your sights, squared up to your opponent. IMHO this provides a better deterant and the type of sights you use is less important. This is similar to the picture shown in a previous post (except squared up to target and activating light with thumb). We also train with the finger out of the trigger guard.