Rossi 92 vs. Ruger M77 ( Both in .357)

[YankeeIronSights]

Assuming both used rifles are in perfect working order - no glitches - and If you could only buy one, which of these carbines would you select?


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[YankeeIronSights]

I forgot to mention that the rifle would be used mostly for plinking and maybe hunting medium size game. Using it for home defense would not be a primary use for these rifles, given that there are better guns that can fulfill that role.


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[TruthTellers]

Assuming they were both problem free and had good workmanship and shot the same size groups and all... the Rossi.

But in the real world s**t happens and I'd rather deal with Ruger customer service than Rossi and I've not heard great things about Rossi accuracy. If you hunt that medium size game under 100 yards, the Rossi should still be fine. Beyond that, I'd want the better ergonomics of the M77.

[Hawg]

Rossi hands down.

[Scorch]

As much as I love a lever action, I have to go with the Ruger. These little rifles are dead reliable and pretty accurate. I cannot say the same for the Rossis I have seen and had in my hands. And besides, you can mount a scope on the Ruger with the rings supplied and really bring out its potential.

[Pathfinder45]

I hear that Marlin is re-issuing their 1894 in 357 Magnum.

[Adventurer 2]

Ruger - light, tough, and accurate. I sold my Marlin JM 1894 after I bought the Ruger.

[std7mag]

Depends on your hunting area.

Thick brush where you need a short fast handling rifle then the Rossi.
Typical woods the Ruger.

The Ruger is going to be inheritedly more accurate, especially at the range.

[Rifletom]

The Ruger. If are willing to put a 2.5 power scope on, there is no comparison.
Is a Henry a possibility?

[zipspyder]

Rossi hands down.

[Pathfinder45]

I would go with the lever-gun with wood stock everytime....
And yet, if they put a Walnut stock on the Ruger, threaded the muzzle, not for a brake, which I hate, but rather for a suppressor, I could be tempted. But only if suppressors were deregulated. Practical as a suppressor may be to protect hearing and reduce noise, they are legally regulated beyond what I want to deal with. Thus I have none and can live without one. Besides, I really like old-west stuff so much better.

[dgludwig]

I think your question might be whether you want a bolt-action or a lever-action rifle. If I was more interested in accuracy, reliability and planned on mounting a scope on it, I'd opt for the Ruger. If my priorities were greater ammunition capacity and speed of re-chambering, I'd choose the Rossi.

For what it's worth, Ruger has a reputation of good customer service.

[Don Fischer]

Why in the world would you choose a rifle in 357? In the 1800's lot of guy's carried a rifle and handgun chambered for the same cartridge. Can't see one reason for it today. Other than, "I just want to". My though on a 357 is it's a good self defense cartridge but other than that, with cast bullet's it'd be a good small game gun!

[COSteve]

Well, since I have 2 Rossi 357mag leverguns; a 20" carbine and a 24" rifle with tang and globe front sight and don't own a Ruger bolt action, I guess I choose the leverguns. The carbine is a fun shooter and surprisingly, I can shoot steel at 300yds with my rifle length and my 158grn handloads.

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Why in the world would you choose a rifle in 357? In the 1800's lot of guy's carried a rifle and handgun chambered for the same cartridge. Can't see one reason for it today. Other than, "I just want to". My though on a 357 is it's a good self defense cartridge but other than that, with cast bullet's it'd be a good small game gun!

Simple, the 357mag cartridge in a rifle is a very versatile caliber, especially if the OP handloads. From mouse fart 90grn puff loads to 2,153fps 158grn 357mag Heavy loads to 180grn or 200grn harcast loads, the 357mag makes a fine small to medium game, closer range (out to 100yds or so), and plinking rifle. For knocking around in the woods, it's as much fun as it gets.

[Hawg]

Why in the world would you choose a rifle in 357? In the 1800's lot of guy's carried a rifle and handgun chambered for the same cartridge. Can't see one reason for it today. Other than, "I just want to". My though on a 357 is it's a good self defense cartridge but other than that, with cast bullet's it'd be a good small game gun!

It's good for deer out to 100 yards. It's a lot more powerful than 44-40 and there's probably been as many deer killed with 44-40 as the 30-30.

[Pathfinder45]

I don't own a 357 rifle, but I can readily see some plusses:

1. Very efficient, low-cost, widely available centerfire.
2. Small game and varmint capable at modest range.
3. Deer capable at modest range.
4. Outstanding home defense capability in a lever-action; rivals the M1 Carbine.
5. Low recoil; anyone can shoot it.

It's no replacement for a 30-'06, nor is it intended to be. But clearly, it's better at some things.

Dang-it-all, now I want one!

[bamaranger]

I've posted before about how useful I think a .357 carbine is, so I'll hold off on that, other than to say I'm a fan.

Between the Ruger and the Rossi.......my gut says the Ruger will be a better rifle, both quality and performance wise, but the magnum pistol caliber bolt rifles leave me a bit cold.

Hoping the new Marlin is good, and wish Ruger had not discontinued the Lever 96.

[COSteve]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Why in the world would you choose a rifle in 357? In the 1800's lot of guy's carried a rifle and handgun chambered for the same cartridge. Can't see one reason for it today. Other than, "I just want to". My though on a 357 is it's a good self defense cartridge but other than that, with cast bullet's it'd be a good small game gun!

On another vein from my post #14 above, I would like to note that the 357mag isn't far behind a 30-30 in terms of power at shorter ranges up to, say 100yds out of a levergun. Is that true? Could they be similar at shorter ranges? Let's compare a 150grn, 30 Cal bullet's Velocity and ME with a 158grn, 35 Cal bullet's Velocity and ME using a ballistic table and see what the results reveal. From Handloads.com's ballistics tables.

• 150grn 30-30 rd with a Muzzle Velocity of 2,390fps from a 24" test barrel (Per Winchester Power Points) produces a ME of 1,903ft/lbs at the muzzle, 1,612ft/lbs at 50yds, 1,365ft/lbs at 100yds.
• 158grn 357mag rd with a Muzzle Velocity of 2,153fps from a Marlin 18.5" barreled levergun (Per Buffalo Bore) produces a ME of 1,626ft/lbs at the muzzle, 1,300ft/lbs at 50yds, 1,039ft/lbs at 100yds.

That's only about a 240fps Muzzle Velocity difference and under 300ft/lb ME reduction across the board. That shows that both rds are capable of humanely taking medium sized game with a proper shot at 100yds or less.

HOWEVER, the barrel length used for the 30-30 test was 24", quite a bit longer than the 18.5" barrel the 357mag test in the Marlin levergun was tested with and 4" longer than the 20" barreled Winchester '94 most 30-30 rds are actually hunted with. That means that there are differences in the 2 test baselines and the test results can not be directly compared with each other. That is important when reading and comparing the results. How important, you ask?

1. My full power 357mag handloads using H110 powder, produce a higher muzzle velocity in my 24" rifle (33fps higher) than out of my 20" carbine and a higher muzzle velocity out of my 20" carbine than in an 18.5" barreled Marlin.
2. I have shot Buffalo Bore loads in both my 20" Rossi carbine and my 24" Rossi rifle and they produce higher velocities in both leverguns than Buffalo Bore reported for the Marlin. In my 20" Rossi carbine, they produced 2,214fps and in my longer barreled 24" Rossi rifle, they produced 2,288fps.

So, for fairness and consistency, we should compare performance out of the same barrel lengths. As we don't have any data for the 30-30 in a 20" levergun from Winchester, we'll be forced to use the longer rifle length 24" Rossi 357mag data with Winchester's 24" 30-30 data. Therefore, comparing a 24" long barrel to a 24" long barrel, the results are:

• 150grn 30-30 Winchester Power Point rd with a Muzzle Velocity of 2,390fps from a 24" test barrel (Per Winchester) produces a ME of 1,903ft/lbs at the muzzle, 1,612ft/lbs at 50yds, 1,365ft/lbs at 100yds.
• 158grn 357mag Buffalo Bore Heavy 357mag rd with a Muzzle Velocity of 2,288fps from a Rossi 24" barreled levergun (Per my Chrono) produces a ME of 1,877ft/lbs at the muzzle, 1,477ft/lbs at 50yds, 1,187ft/lbs at 100yds.

Now the difference in Muzzle Velocity is only 100fps and the Muzzle Energy has closed as well. At 50yds, the 357mag is only 135ft-lbs lower ME and at 100yds only 178ft-lbs. However, the 357mag's larger diameter, 35 cal bullet weighs more than the 150grn 30-30 which means that the energy transfer with the 357mag's HP or RN bullet will be even more efficient than with the 30-30's. That narrows the gap between them even further.

I'm not dissing the 30-30 or it's history. The truth is that besides my two 357mag Rossi leverguns, I also have a Mossberg 464 30-30 levergun which I also really enjoy shooting, especially with some 150grn, 2,000fps plinking handloads. While neither the 30-30 or 357mag is a practical deer hunting caliber out here in the West with both large Mule Deer and typically much longer ranges than either caliber would be effective at, both are fun calibers to enjoy. In the east and south where the deer are typically smaller and the engagement ranges much shorter, either could be used effectively within it's limits.

[Pathfinder45]

And then there is the Far-West, i.e., the west-slope Cascades and Coast-range mountains. The timber and brush is thick here. A scoped bolt-action rifle will work fine here, but honestly doesn't offer much advantage over an iron-sighted lever-gun until you get over and East of the Cascades where the country opens up a lot. Oregon; it's got a temperate rain-forest on one side and high-desert on a lot of the other side with a bunch of mountains between and scattered throughout. Blacktail Deer on the wetter west-slope; Mule Deer to the East. There are places in the Cascades where the timber thins out a little where you might get a shot at 100 yards; but more likely much closer. Much of the west-slope Cascades will rival the coast-range for wetness and will be a dark forested thicket where a shot at a deer could very seldom exceed 50 yards and often be much closer. It can also be, umm.... very steep here.

[COSteve]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder45

And then there is the Far-West, i.e., the west-slope Cascades and Coast-range mountains. The timber and brush is thick here. A scoped bolt-action rifle will work fine here, but honestly doesn't offer much advantage over an iron-sighted lever-gun until you get over and East of the Cascades where the country opens up a lot. Oregon; it's got a temperate rain-forest on one side and high-desert on a lot of the other side with a bunch of mountains between and scattered throughout. Blacktail Deer on the wetter west-slope; Mule Deer to the East. There are places in the Cascades where the timber thins out a little where you might get a shot at 100 yards; but more likely much closer. Much of the west-slope Cascades will rival the coast-range for wetness and will be a dark forested thicket where a shot at a deer could very seldom exceed 50 yards and often be much closer. It can also be, umm.... very steep here.

Those of us out in the 'West' don't like to claim Washington as a Western state because it rains too darn much out there!! Yes, everything is green but it's because you never see the sun! Rain, rain, rain.

Open spaces, arid land, plains and big sky, that's the image of the West we like. Not a place where in 1969, I lay in Madigan hospital healing and watched it 'rain' (really a drizzle) day after day after day for 163 days in a row!! To make it worse, one of the 5 songs the local radio station had , which they played over and over and over , was Perry Como singing, "The Bluest Skies You've Ever Seen are in Seattle", the theme song to the TV show, 'Here Come the Brides'. Bluest skies we've ever seen??? We never saw the sun, let alone blue sky!!!!

It should be noted that even though the show was about Seattle in the 1860s, it was filmed in LA and the surrounding area as it was too wet and rainy to actually film on location. Where the natives have webbed feet and if a strange orange, glowing, disc peaks out from behind their beloved clouds, they sacrifice a goat or lamb to the rain gods!!

[Scorch]

there's probably been as many deer killed with 44-40 as the 30-30

Probably more, 44-40 had a 22 year head start on the 30-30, and by 1900 deer were almost non-existent in most states.

Those of us out in the 'West' don't like to claim Washington as a Western state because it rains too darn much out there!!

Well, then, next time you look at a map of the USA, please note that up is north, down is south, right is east, and Washington is a lot farther to the left (in more ways than one) than the place you call home. Besides, it is only moldy green in the farthest western 1/3 of the state, the other 2/3 is dry and dusty. And there is more precipitation in Colorado than in most of Washington, it just happens faster.

158grn 357mag Buffalo Bore Heavy 357mag rd with a Muzzle Velocity of 2,288fps from a Rossi 24" barreled levergun

It defies reason that a cartridge with less than 1/2 the case capacity of a 30-30 that operates at 85% of the pressure of the 30-30 can generate the same velocity as a 30-30 with a similar weight bullet and 2/3 the powder. I have seen 1,950 fps with a 158 gr bullet out of a 357 carbine (which is faster than most pistol bullets can perform well at), but never 2,300 fps. Not sayin' it ain't so, but I'd want to see it.

Besides, we were discussing the merits of a rifle with an 18-1/2" barrel.

[Pathfinder45]

Yep, it rains all the time out here in Oregon, even in the summer. We never see the sun. And Washington is even wetter; everywhere. Y'all would hate it out here.... Just don't come.

[FrankenMauser]

Ruger, hands-down.

I love me some lever guns, but the Ruger 77/357 is the better buy.


Washington?
I know there's a bunch of desert, and I'm told I went through it a few times as a kid. But I don't remember it.
When I lived in WA, I was west of Mt. Rainier and we always headed south into Oregon to travel back to Utah.
But, while in that green, soggy 'paradise, if it only rained 4 days in a week, a severe drought would be declared!
Grey skies all the time ... even on sunny days. It was a depressing place.