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Old September 28, 2019, 08:41 PM   #26
2wheelwander
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I have several 12's and not a single .410 I want a lever or nice double barrel .410. THe only caliber I don't have I wish I did.
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Old September 28, 2019, 09:02 PM   #27
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Not every 410 is some $100 POS:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...c849_p1_o6.cfm
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Old September 29, 2019, 06:15 AM   #28
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.410

I very much enjoy .410s. I own a few and shoot one or another regularly.
For me, the only advantage of the .410, though, is that they are lighter guns and easier for me to carry in the hilly uplands of PA. They are way less forgiving than a 12 or a 20. I shoot 16 yard Trap with mine fairly often (I am not a great Trap shot in any case) and I know that there are shots that are misses with the .410 that would have been powder with a 12.
Beginners gun? I think not. A beginner wants to, needs to, see a positive result and the little .410 just does not throw enough shot nor provide the pattern consistency that the larger gauges do.
Lower costs? Have you bought any .410 ammo lately? Generally, .410s are a few dollars more per box than equivalent 12 ga. I reload mine.
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Old September 29, 2019, 08:23 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mike38 View Post
If you are a rabbit hunter, the .410 is the best shotgun available. I used one for many years, and bagged hundreds upon hundreds of rabbits with it. I had one of those .22 LR over a .410 shotgun double barrel break open guns. If the rabbit was sitting, click over to the .22. If the rabbit was on the move, click over to the .410. The perfect rabbit gun.
I have a savage 22-410. A meat gun. Light enough to carry all day and if you miss with the rimfire, you get a second shot. I shot a lot of rabbits, squirrels and a few partridge with that gun. I upgraded to a 222 over 20 gauge and put a reciever sight on it. Its a better meat gun mostly because I shot a deer with it.

My frind shoots a bolt action .410. He hunts everything with it, even frogs.

You need to be a pretty good hunter because range is shoter than a 12 or 20.

I never tried hand loading for the 410. For as much as I shoot it, store bought stuff is fine.

David

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Old September 29, 2019, 11:47 PM   #30
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.410's

Bigger guns throw more shot and denser patterns at all degrees of choke, which results in a gun with which it is easier to hit and kill birds on the wing. The payload on a .410 makes it a poor wingshooting gun for most of us, and as others have said, not necessarily a good choice for beginners, though many, including myself, had a .410 as a first shotgun.

But if not wingshooting, the .410 properly loaded, is a useful tool to take rabbits and squirrels out to 25 maybe 30 yds. As a rabbit gun, hunting ahead of slow moving beagles, bunnies in close can be shot without a lot of meat damage and yield more palatable table fair. Same of course for squirrels, if their not too high up in big trees. Even a light 12 ga load, inside 20 yds, can put enough pellets and holes in a cottontail or squirrel to make poor eating. The .410 is also a useful garden and pest gun, and a light 2-1/2" trap load will not ricochet dangerously like a .22 might when shooting around properties and structures, despite what attention you pay to your backstop. It is also less of a kicker of course, and comparatively quiter than bigger bores.

I think the .410's reputation for useless stems from folks using too large a shot size (yielding thin patterns) and then attempting shots to far for the skimpy cloud of shot. Seems all the stores in may area consistently stock .410 in #4 and #6 shot, just like the larger bores. And another thing seems that the short 2-!/2" shell is oftne stocked as well. Now certainly, a load of #4 (or #6) from a .410 inside 20 yds will yield dead critters. But stretch that distance just a wee bit,and that pattern will get VERY thin in a hurry.

My family hunted .410's a great deal on rabbits ahead of beagles. The load was the 3" shell and #7-1/2 shot. That is smaller shot size than typically used on fur clad small game, but the smaller pellets yield denser, more even patterns inside 25-30 yds and never seemed to compromise killing power in our use. I'll add that you can carry twice as many .410 shells as anything else in your shell vest, important if you were a kid hunting all day and missing some!!!!!
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Old September 30, 2019, 02:24 AM   #31
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I shot a lot of grouse close range with one as a kid. I was at a garage sale with my dad and they had a 410 single shot break action for $10 with a box of shells. Eventually it had some sort of problem opening so it was sold for something like $10 and a 20 gauge took its place.
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Old September 30, 2019, 06:55 AM   #32
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I believe that darkgael and bamaranger have answered fully.

My experience is that my .410 is a great bird gun in the latter stages of a three-day hunt. At that point, I'm pretty ragged, and just getting up to the point is tough on me. The gun has made me effective at that stage.

I cheat-I use 3" shells, with bird shot, but both the dogs and I appreciate the results.
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Old September 30, 2019, 10:18 AM   #33
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Went to Boy Scout camp when I was a kid. They taught us to shoot clay pigeon's with a 22RF loaded with 22RF shot. What did we know. We weren't very good with it but we did break clays. If you have a problem with the 410 then all I can say is you probably haven't shot one much! You learn to shoot what you have! I know a guy that act's as gunner in call backs for retrieving at field trials. His gun of choice is a 410 single shot. Also know several trainer's that train with the 410, not often they miss. It's what they are used to. I prefer carrying my 28ga and 410ga bird hunting to carrying either of my 16's. They are a lot lighter and make a bird just as dead.!
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Old September 30, 2019, 03:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
1) It’s a great starter shotgun particularly for youth.
2) They’re available in single shot as a bolt gun (for beginners)
3) The costs are usually pretty low
4) much lower recoil than larger bores
I question the lower recoil statement. Yes in identical firearms it would have lower recoil. The .410 single shot I learned on was LIGHT and recoiled noticeably more than the later .20 gauge pump I later "graduated" to.

That being said for kicking around in the woods during squirrel and grouse season when I'm not "really" hunting it's a hard gun to beat. It was cheap when my dad bought it to teach me to shoot and if I dropped it in the creek crossing it I would be annoyed but not out anything.
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Old September 30, 2019, 05:39 PM   #35
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My Verona LX702 carries very nicely when I am hiking the So.Cal. mountains looking for mountain quail. It also does a nice job of dispatching those little track stars.
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Old October 1, 2019, 10:08 AM   #36
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Teach kids to use a shotgun.
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Old October 1, 2019, 05:47 PM   #37
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Teach kids to use a shotgun.
But it doesn't teach that at all; it is the smallest payload which makes success even harder, and thus more discouraging. The 28 would be a good one or - even better - loading 28 gauge level 3/4oz loads in a 20 or 12 the kid can handle. My 3/4oz 12 gauge loads work just fine in my 2 Beretta gas guns; the recoil is so mild my recoil-averse wife can shoot 150 shots at targets in a day.
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Old October 1, 2019, 08:01 PM   #38
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What does .410 do well?

I a lot of rabbits when I was s young fella. It taught me to not miss because it was a single shot.

David

Edit: the word under red is shot unless I spelled it wrong.
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Old October 1, 2019, 09:32 PM   #39
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David, if you got the red, you spelled it wrong. The red blocks are the replacement for "censored" in the language filter.

I have a fondness for the .410, mostly nostalgia, but not entirely. People say its a great gun for kids beginning, and other say its an expert's gun and both are right.

The relative light recoil, is beneficial for beginners, and allows them to learn the principles of shotgunning. It'd dandy for small game animals and pest varmints at closer ranges (its a barnyard rat wrecker supreme), but for wingshooting the small shot charge and generally full choke guns make it an experts gun.

My personal beginning was with a .410 (a bolt action Grandpa had) and after shooting a whole box of (expensive) shells with only one bird hit, I decided that it just wasn't enough. Got permission to use Pappa's double 12, and despite splitting my lip open with my thumb the first time I shot at a bird, I never looked back.

So, use a .410 to teach youngsters the basics and then move them to a heavier gun for wingshooting as soon as they are physically capable. For a pest gun, its tough to beat.

The old time "classic" farm when I was a kid invariably had at least two guns, a shotgun, usually a 12 or a 16 and a .22 rifle. If there was another gun in the house, it was usually a .410 (for pests not worthy of the 12). The was the usual, for farmers, who weren't sport hunters. And sometimes even if they were hunters. 12ga does quite well for ducks and deer within its range limitations.

several folks have mentioned 28 ga and yes, technically its superior to the .410 without much more recoil, BUT where are they???

You could always find .410s somewhere back in the pre Internet, pre Walmart days, when dept stores, hardware stores and general stores sold guns and ammo, there were always a few rounds everybody had, .22LR, .30-30, 12 ga, and .410. Might not have MUCH .410 but somebody always had a box somewhere. Might not have 16ga and wouldn't have 28ga, seems other than .410 the smaller gauges went away and the 20ga took over the "lighter" spot.

Nowdays, my most frequent use of a .410 is in my T/C Contender. With the straightener 'Choke" tube on a 10" barrel, patterns aren't horrid at short range and its a handy pest gun. And, take a look at the ballistics of the .410 slug. Accuracy from a smooth bore isn't great but a 109gr (1/4"oz) slug at 1600fps (from the full length shotgun barrel) is not worthless.
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Old October 1, 2019, 11:58 PM   #40
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Thanks all, great input.

Because one of the reasons I'm looking at .410 is it shares food with my Taurus Judge, I have no interest in a 28 gauge. I'd have more interest in a 24 gauge simply because in the future I intend to get an antique Snider-Enfield rifle and shoot it and 24 gauge hulls work.

Unfortunately nobody makes a 24 gauge shotgun today.

I'm not a bird hunter, but rabbits/squirrels are one reason I got the Henry in .327. Not a bad caliber if they're relatively still, but when they're moving a shotgun is better and I would imagine 20 gauge is too much shot for them.

Buckshot is limited to 000 with 3, 4, or 5 pellets. That's fine for self defense, but not enough for anything in the field I'd imagine. So, what about slugs? What can a .410 slug reliably take and at what distances?
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Old October 2, 2019, 03:25 AM   #41
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I know some of you have mentioned weight, but weight is significantly less with a .410 and was the main reason my father started me out with a single shot at 7 years old. Sadly somehow it was lost at a repair shop but I have a H&R .410 and taught my sons to shoot it and I'm sure my 2 grandsons will learn with it. It weighs 5 pounds, my 410 pump weighs in at 6.25 pounds and most 12 gauge pumps weigh in at 7.5 pounds.

My eldest loved the light weight and could walk for hours with me while hunting rabbits and I remember how fun it was to carry a 5 pound gun when I was shooting mountain quail as a youth.

I think an individual shooting rabbits or other running small game up to 30 yards or so will have more success with a .410 then with a .22, I certainly did!
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Old October 2, 2019, 09:14 AM   #42
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I started on an old late 1930's bolt action, tube fed Ranger .410. Gramps bought it, and my Dad and uncles used it in the 40's, 50's and 60's, then me in the late 70's / early 80's, then my boy in recent years. That old full choke 3" .410 has killed lots of game; partridges, pheasants, squirrels, rabbits, crows, rats and even a fox over the years. She likes 7 1/2 shot. Its Part of our family narrative. I better lose it in a boating accident before Beto tries to take it. LOL!!!
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Old October 2, 2019, 11:20 AM   #43
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Lot of years ago I seem to remember reading about Pres Eisenhauer hunting quail down south. The amazing thing about it was his choice of guns, He shot a 410 and they claim he was deadly with it.

For the beginner, once he/she learns to shoot the 410 well, a larger ga will be eazy! Then if you only have a 410 and want to hunt geese, then I guess you'll learn to make the 410 work. Years ago read about a goose guide down south the only used a 410. They asked how he did it. He claimed he only took head shots and shot like he was shooting doves. I don't know if that was true of not but I'd say it would work.

Funny thing, a lot of guy's today want a light to carry and handle gun so the get a 20ga and shoot 3" mags in it! Other guys want lsee recoil so they load 1oz loads in their 12ga, I used to load only 1 1/8th oz loads in my 12ga and adjusted the size of shot I used. My eye's opened pretty good when I finally started shooting a 28ga I have and then just for kick's took out my 410 training and not much of a problem at all. Just get on the bird a bit quicker!
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Old October 2, 2019, 12:49 PM   #44
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Unfortunately nobody makes a 24 gauge shotgun today.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...1836_p1_o6.cfm
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Old October 2, 2019, 08:51 PM   #45
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The 410 EXCELS @ frustrating the every loving out of people who THINK they are good wingshots.
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Old October 2, 2019, 09:48 PM   #46
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I can tell you one thing my Springfield (CZ) Scout M6 .22lr over .410 did well and that is go up in value over the last twenty some odd years.
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Old October 3, 2019, 12:27 AM   #47
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*that costs less than one year of wages for me.
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Old October 3, 2019, 12:42 AM   #48
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I never had a lot of use for a .410, until I bought a sweet handling side by side. But junky cheap .410's are not to my liking.
A good smooth operating .410 can be fun, though. Some ways it shines is you can get it in a sweet handling and very light side by side, and it can be more effective then one might imagine, with the added benefit of much lighter ammunition, which adds up to a much lighter load to pack, on long walks.

Down side is reduced effective range, and factory loaded .410 shells are usually more expensive to purchase.

Another gauge that is better, but has some of the same advantages of the .410 is the 28ga. I don't really understand why it is not more popular, because it bridges the gap between .410 and 20ga. The 28 kicks more like a .410 and kills about as good as a 20ga.
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Old October 3, 2019, 12:51 AM   #49
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Just checked some .410 slugs I have, and the 3" Winchester says it does 1800fps.

Remington 2.5" doesn't give velocity but shows a trajectory chart and it drops 8.2 inches at 100 yards.

Range will be what distance you and your gun shooting slugs will hold a decent group. A 6" group, centered around the point of aim means each shot is 3" or less from the point of aim. If that's enough to stay in the vital area of your target, it should do fine. A 4" group would be better yet.

Lots of old time hunters used the "paper plate rule". If you could put your shots near the center of a paper plate that was good enough for deer at that distance. If you could only hit the plate somewhere, then that distance was too far.

1800fps with a 109gr slug isn't bad, the .30 carbine does 1900fps with a 110gr bullet. It's accuracy from a smooth bore that limits your range.
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Old October 3, 2019, 04:32 AM   #50
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I was a runt, but the shotgun I learned with was a 16ga. Single shot. In a few years I graduated to a Remington 20ga. Pump, and then to a 12ga. Double. A runt through all those years, maybe 130 pounds at the most (I've ballooned since!).

My only interaction with a .410, was in 1970, when one of my grandfathers passed. Aunts and uncles knew I hunted alot, so I was given, wait for it, a bag containing random .410 shells and a few .20ga slugs, though I had several centerfire rifles by then. Oh well, still have those shells pigeon holed somewhere, anyhow, I didn't have them prior to my grandfathers death, so I came out ahead!
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