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Old March 1, 2019, 08:42 AM   #51
bladesmith 1
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A holy trinity would be a model 10 or 29 [ both bottom eject ], a model 31, and a 870. A 31 is considered by many to be the smoothest working pump ever made.
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Old March 1, 2019, 09:15 AM   #52
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stinkeypete, the Model 37 ejectors are located in the arms of the shell lifter.
When the spent case is pulled from the chamber the rim hits a notch cut in the
lifter arm. The case rim slips from under the top extractor and is flipped
down ward in a rotating motion. If you take a fired case and try to slip it into the action
you will find the ejection port too short by about 1/16 inch.
The case is actually pulled back into the action then ejected.

Please note that the Winchester Model 12 ejected the same way. There were many
gun smiths that made good money's opening up "short" ejection ports. Even though
guns functioned very well.
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Old March 2, 2019, 07:37 PM   #53
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I've bought a few used 870 riot guns and Wingmasters, and a few used Mossbergs 500, 590, 835, in my day, and used a bunch more. They seem equally rugged and reliable for my use shooting under 1000rds/yr (they short stroke equally well ) and the differences seem mostly negligible and superficial.

Perhaps Remington triggers are easier to work on, but I really don't think most people would care.

If I was looking for a good pump shotgun (and I always seem to be looking for a good used pump shotgun under $200!) I wouldn't hesitate to buy either one.
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Old March 2, 2019, 11:29 PM   #54
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Being that all pump shotguns are judged against the standard of all pump guns, the 870, how does the Mossberg stand up against the 870 in your opinion? I was looking at the Blue Book of Gun Values and noticed that none of their firearms have ever been prized for very much money. Why is that? My take on them as it stands now is that their shotguns are perfectly serviceable and a bit less cost than the 870 so if one wants to take a shotgun into miserable conditions and it still work, get a Mossberg, but is the action generally as reliable as the 870? Is the pump action as durable as the 870? Etc., etc.. Thanks!
If you're going to buy a gun today I would not recommend buying anything made by Remington. I do own a Remington 870 myself but I got it back in 2001 and back then Remington was making good quality guns. Remington does not make them like they used to so I would not buy any of the junk they're pumping out today. Its sad how Remington used to be one of the best firearm companies around and now they're nothing like what they used to be. That being said I would definitely go with a Mossberg over a Remington but that's only because Im dead set against any of the stuff Remington sells today. I don't own any Mossbergs but I do believe they make decent guns. Nevertheless, for a shotgun I would want to go with an FN or better yet a Benelli. They are a bit more expensive, especially the Benelli, but you get what you pay for.
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Old March 3, 2019, 03:25 AM   #55
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clay birds

My brother in law is one of those guys that shoots trap with an 870, and his round count with minor repairs, is astronomical, just as eastbank advised in post #26......something like 40,000 rds, 10 years ago.

I suspect that the steel on steel action of the 870 is more durable over the long term with heavy shooting, than the alloy on steel build of the Mossberg, but that is speculation. For the average guy, going through a few boxes every small game season, no big deal, but 50,000 rounds may take a toll on an alloy gun. Another reason the Mossberg may not surface in the clay bird games to any degree is that the alloy framed guns are generally a tad lighter unless weighted, and tend to kick more. I shot a 3.5" 12 ga. heavy turkey load in a Mossberg 835 for grins, and can tell you it will get your attention.

My own experience with the 870 and faults is having to replace carrier dog springs on several at work after a decade.......and on my turkey gun( after 30 yrs) as well, to correct lazy feeding. Also, a common problem with the 870 can be the shell stops, retained in their channels by peening, coming loose after much shooting (as at the LE academy) or I suspect, remaining loaded (full magazine) very long term, in the patrol function. Regards the Mossberg, I have heard the plastic safety tang criticized before.
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Old March 3, 2019, 08:31 AM   #56
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Have owned and used both and consider both good shotguns. The feel and balance of the 870 fits me better and I prefer it's steel receiver. Overall the 500 seems a bit simpler to me and I prefer it's safety location.and open loading port. I would rather shoot the 870, but prefer carrying (hunting with) the 500.
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Old March 13, 2019, 12:01 PM   #57
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I suspect that the steel on steel action of the 870 is more durable over the long term with heavy shooting, than the alloy on steel build of the Mossberg, but that is speculation.
When it comes to "steel on steel", the Mossberg bolt/chamber relationship is steel on steel. The aluminum alloy receiver merely serves as a "housing" where the steel parts work together inside of.
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Old March 13, 2019, 04:06 PM   #58
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Whew, all the bad mouthing of Remington. I bought a new, well shot just once, Wingmaster and four friends bought new Expresses for our "pump gun" SCs league and none of them have given anyone a problem. We all put on the extended magazines because we shoot six shots per station, all report birds. Only screw up is guys not use to shooting a pump is short stroking them. I'm not saying they didn't have problems before the bankruptcy, but since have gotten back to business. There's probably eight or ten 870s total in the league, new and old. Everyone is happy with them. PhotonGuy, are you complaining from personal experience or just repeating what others are saying ? You didn't say what Remington you bought since 2001 that was junk.
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Old March 19, 2019, 09:04 AM   #59
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With the 590A1 the 2 things it does need is a magazine spring replacement (Wolff). The 500/590 springs are notoriously weak but at least with the 590 it can easily be replaced.
Also they use some goofy screw on the safety, can't remember the name of it but it can only be tightened and not loosened without a special screwdriver. I got rid of mine and put a normal cap screw on it.
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Old March 19, 2019, 09:26 AM   #60
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My first shotgun at 21 (in 1988) was a Remington 870. Still have it and I have shot Elk to mini clays with it, never a hitch in function. I need to keep something on the parkerizing or it will start to rust. I really like my Ithaca 37 and the BPS design. Have a Nova and a Stoeger P3000 which would be in the running of the top three I would pick along with the FN P12 for a defensive shotgun. The rotating bolt is something I desire, especially with full power slugs and buck and I would take any of those three over the Mossberg or the Remington.
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Old April 9, 2019, 12:01 AM   #61
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bolt/ chamber

Thanks for your clarification. Yes, the bolt locks into the recess cut in the barrel "sleeve" ?????. But I'm thinking the action bars, and the bolt itself, reciprocate in aluminum races in the receiver.

Either way, tough gun (MOssberg) for the average guy. I've read the Mossy's saw use in the sand box as breachers a good bit, where they held up well and received much abuse.
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Old April 9, 2019, 03:46 AM   #62
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The misinformation on this board is amazing.
An Express is not Parkerized. It is flash bluing over a bead blasted finish. Sometimes the salts baths did not do a good enough job removing the salts and those guns will rust easily. Oil is not a solvent for bluing salts, so all the slathering on of oil will do little. A good bath in warm soapy water and then drying and light lube has alleviated any issues on all of them I have run across. The newer Expresses have a MUCH smoother finish and the problem no longer exists.
Anyone saying a Nova is better than a Mossberg or a Remington is clearly overdosing on the Kool Aid. A rotary bolt has the advantage of being on an M-16/AR-15 and clones, that is all. There are now over 21 MILLION Mossbergs and Remingtons out there and none have shown any proclivity to bolt failures. I have seen 870s used to demonstrate that a gun can survive shooting a 12 gauge with a 20 gauge shell in the barrel. Remington started selling oversized locking blocks so the trapshooters with upwards of a quarter of a million rounds could easily compensate for wear without major gunsmithing.
A Mossberg 500 has never been the equal of the Wingmaster. But, the Mossberg 500 has always represented a hell of a deal on a real good gun all the way back to and including the single action bar models with super plain stained stocks. I came within a hair of getting one when a new Wingmaster Magnum was $150 out the door, and I was broke and was only able to save up enough for that Wingmaster to buy it the evening before opening day of goose season. As time passed the Mossberg - Remington price gap got wider and Remington had to introduce the Express to compete with the cheaper guns. America's love affair with cheaper has only gotten worse.
A pump gun is primarily a tool, and most of them, even the Chinese cheapies, do work. There are plenty of Remingtons and Mossbergs out there with many thousands of rounds thru them still going strong. Arguing which is "better" is a fool's gambit.
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Old April 19, 2019, 02:45 PM   #63
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I've got a 1958 Remington Wingmaster and a Mossberg 500. The Wingmaster was inherited from my grandfather, but yes I do shoot it. Both of them a good guns. I'm left handed, so I shoot the Mossberg more than the Remington because I prefer the controls of the Mossberg (tang safety, etc.) to those on the Wingmaster.
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:35 PM   #64
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Just for the record, some of us still consider the Winchester Model 12, the standard by which pump guns are judged, but back to the subject at hand:

I considered both the base model Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 when I was shopping for a budget 12 gauge shotgun. At the time, the Remington had a single rail, and the Mossberg had two rails. I racked them both and felt the Mossberg was smoother and easier to pump. It may have been those two particular examples, but I preferred the Mossberg. Fast forward a couple of decades, I have a handful of pump and semi auto guns, but I still kept the Mossberg.
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:53 PM   #65
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The Remington 870 has ALWAYS had two rails, ever since 1950. The early Mossberg 500s did have a single action bar. They had to wait until Remington's patent expired to go to two bars.
The Ithaca 37 would have been the Ithaca 36 (or 35) , but they had to wait until Remington's patents expired as well.
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Old April 19, 2019, 08:56 PM   #66
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By the way, total 870 production is now over 13 million. Haven't heard from Mossberg, but I suspect they are close behind.
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Old April 20, 2019, 07:23 AM   #67
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@Virginian - Hmmmm, I checked the 870 schematics and it looks like you're right on the slide rails. Don't know why I remember it that way. Maybe it was just something the Kmart counter man told me to sell more Mossbergs.
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Old April 29, 2019, 03:26 PM   #68
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I'll try to be perfectly objective here with the advantages of each for me. I have both a Mossberg 500 Persuader and a Remington 870 with tactical modifications.

First and foremost, I really dislike the "elevator" on the Remington being in the down position and being in the way while loading, and also the need to pull back the slide to unload shells from the magazine. Another thing I don't like is the excessive "slack" in the forearm that lets it rattle loudly when the hammer is not cocked. Makes it feel and sound cheap. Finally, it seems that whatever the finish is has no ability to resist rusting when the humidity is high. I have to keep an eye on this and give it a good oil wiping when surface rust begins to form. Also, it generally costs more than the Mossberg.

As for the advantages of the 870, far more accessories are available for customization, and the steel receiver is a good thing. I think I also prefer the safety location on the Remington since it's the same as on my Ruger 10/22.

Needless to say, I've decided that I like the Mossberg 500 better. More things to like at a lower cost for a shotgun that feels like it's better built.
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Old May 8, 2019, 09:10 PM   #69
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I’ve got a New Haven 600CT (20-ga.)I bought back in the mid-late 70s. It’s is basically a Mossberg 500 with some slight differences. I believe it has a steel receiver, steel safety and steel trigger guard.

I much prefer the 500 style controls over the 870. Everything is just where it should be for me without changing my hand positions.

If I were looking for a new shotgun today, I’d probably be looking for a 590A1.
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Old May 12, 2019, 09:27 PM   #70
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Both are reliable and well-handling guns. I've got both though I hold a slight preference for the Remington 870 since it's what my dad shot when I was growing up and everything just seems "right" on that design, though that's just personal preference. I will say though that comparing new to new, the Mossberg 500 action seems to operate a bit slicker. Obviously though either one with use will break in and improve over time.

If you do want the feel of the 870 but want the light handling of the aluminum receiver, if you can manage to find one the Manufrance La Salle was basically an 870 copy but with an aluminum receiver.
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Old May 25, 2019, 12:53 PM   #71
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I'm a mossberg guy because I prefer the controls. Either one is reliable enough to not be concerned with reliability. Choose one that fits you better, fits your budget or particular needs better. Truthfully, I would also buy used. Cheap pawn shop 500's and 870's can be found for around 2 bills, although it might be a little scratched and beat up. Spend 20 bucks on new springs whether needed or not. You can buy one of each for not much more than the cost of a single new one.

I just wish Chevy and Ford were as reliable and cost efficient as 500's and 870's.
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Old June 1, 2019, 12:51 AM   #72
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My new 870 Tactical is an excellent shotgun, much nicer in fit finish and function than the express models I had a few years ago.

Last edited by oldshotty; June 1, 2019 at 12:57 AM.
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Old June 2, 2019, 05:30 AM   #73
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I wonder why Remington never made anything resembling an aluminum receiver 870. Lockup is between the bolt and barrel, so the receiver only has to be strong enough to resist recoil.

You hear about Remington not pursuing various police/military contracts since the all steel 870 can't compete with Mossberg on price. And on the budget side, it could be argued that the Maverick series is particularly difficult to beat.

Seems like there's some room in there to innovate, but things never went that way.
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Old June 2, 2019, 10:58 AM   #74
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The rails still ride in grooves in the aluminum receiver. No one has entered a gun to run against Mossberg for a military contract. Having dealt with the military I can understand why they may feel that way.
To criticize either of the two most successful shotguns in history is rather egotistical in my opinion.
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Old July 16, 2019, 08:21 AM   #75
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Quote:
No one has entered a gun to run against Mossberg for a military contract.
There is a ton of Remington 870's in US Military service with new added all the time. We had shorties similar to the shockwave set up as breaching tools. Great shotgun.

Just got an 870 I picked up for 200 bucks with a rifle sighted improved cylinder rem choke barrel Added a +3 mag tube and a nylon sling off an M14.

Not to ruffle any feathers.....

Quote:
Army Seeks Future Sources for M870 Modular Combat Shotgun
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/07/03/813532/


Quote:
Remington 870 Modular Combat Shotgun
https://www.fbo.gov/index.php?s=oppo...=core&_cview=0

The Remington 870 is alive and well in the US Military.
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