The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 2, 2017, 05:09 PM   #1
baddarryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: Cape Fear!
Posts: 1,556
How many rounds to trust a pistol?

Hi all. I have a used CZ75 b pre Omega that I love. I want to start carrying it and may even pick up a 75 Compact for that purpose. How many rounds before you trust a pistol to carry in general? Thanks.
baddarryl is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 05:14 PM   #2
Rangerrich99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2014
Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,140
I used to feel that i had to see a pistol fire 200 rounds consecutively in one range session to trust it.

But nowadays I've come to think that 200 is a little overkill. Now if a gun will run three consecutive magazines without a hitch, using one of my preferred carry rounds, it's good to go. YMMV.
Rangerrich99 is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 05:45 PM   #3
Snub357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2002
Posts: 484
No issues in 200 rounds is my rule. And I've found that many issues are magazine related.
__________________
[Insert prattle here]
Snub357 is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 06:44 PM   #4
Eazyeach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2014
Posts: 680
1500. Just kidding. My autos I shoot about 100-200 rds of fmj. Then a couple mags of HP. If it's flawless then I trust it.
Revolvers maybe a box of fmj. Then a couple of cylinders of the good stuff to figure out my poi/poa.
Eazyeach is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 10:52 PM   #5
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 2,758
300 to 500 rounds.
__________________
AI + Quantum Computing = Human Extinction Event
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 11:50 PM   #6
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,740
1 box and I’m good if the handgun is.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 12:20 PM   #7
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,482
One mag's worth. If it's going to quit or the mag lips need fixing it'll do it in one mag load.
How many miles do you drive a new vehicle before you trust it? Same thing.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 01:20 PM   #8
DM357
Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2017
Posts: 44
Depends on the gun. Revolver, I put a box through and call it good. 1911s I put about 250-300 FMJs and 2 boxes of my choice in HP rounds. 1911s can be finicky creatures and the first 100 doesn't always give a good idea of how it'll run. For most anything else, 100-150 FMJs and a box of my choice in HP.
DM357 is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 01:51 PM   #9
pete2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,051
200 rounds should be good to go. Usually if there is something wrong it'll show up right away.
pete2 is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 01:54 PM   #10
DM357
Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2017
Posts: 44
I don't know, I had a Canik start choking 300 rounds in. But, yeah, I know, Canik.
DM357 is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 07:50 PM   #11
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
The trouble with this question, which is always cropping up, is that there are really three reliability issues - the gun, the ammo, and the magazine(s). It is like a three-legged stool and we all know what happens with those if any of the three legs breaks while we are sitting on it.

The gun may perform perfectly with that magazine or that ammo, yet be a boat anchor with another magazine or another ammo. Or your XYZ Co. Model X might work perfectly with everything you feed it, while my identical gun is a "jam-o-matic".

There is also another issue with ammo. I know a guy who had a good (make not relevant) pistol and felt it was very reliable. Yet he practiced with the least expensive ammo he could buy while reserving the "high price spread" for carry. One day at the range, i suggested he shoot some of his expensive ammo. Finally, he did so, with great reluctance, thinking about the cost. Well, nearly every round failed; failed to fire or failed to feed or failed to extract or failed to eject. That "ultra reliable gun" was a disaster with the ammo he would have bet his life on.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 08:09 PM   #12
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 2,067
You just bought a new gun

Step 1: have fun with it. No major drills just shots down range. 100-200 rounds

Step 2: time to make sure your proficient and make shots on target. 100 rounds or so

Step 3: malfunction drills induced with snap caps. At least a few magazines 50-100 rounds

Step 4: defensive ammo practice. With the ammo you intend to carry at least two of each magazine you intend to carry. For a G19 with three magazines this is 90 rounds. These should be failure free

Repeat each step as desired or needed.
Lohman446 is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 08:25 PM   #13
James K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
That is a good summary, but assumes that the shooter is already experienced with a handgun of the general type as his new gun. Maybe i am just slow in learning, but I seem to recall that it took a lot more than 100 rounds to become proficient enough with a handgun to feel that I could defend myself or others without being a "menace to society." Of course I know some folks who have carry licenses (or even badges) who have never fired the gun they carry, or even any gun. I have cringed at hearing nonsense like "of course I can shoot, I saw a Western movie last week" or "shooting is instinctive, anyone can do it" or "I can hit a quarter at 200 yards fast draw, every shot."

Sure.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 08:40 PM   #14
Lohman446
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 2,067
Yeah. I didn't clarify that the round counts were on the minimal side and each step should be repeated or lengthened until proficiency was found.
Lohman446 is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 09:19 PM   #15
Bozz10mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2013
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 263
200 rounds without a malfunction.
Bozz10mm is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 10:00 PM   #16
Koda94
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2012
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 1,200
200 rds, then 1 box of your preferred premium ammo for the gun and up to 2 mags for that session. Repeat session for additional mags you want to add to your rotation.
__________________
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Koda94 is offline  
Old December 3, 2017, 11:53 PM   #17
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
How many rounds through a pistol before I'm confident that it will go bang every time, and how much practice and training is needed to be confident and proficient carrying a gun are two different things.

I think a couple of hundred rounds is plenty to test for reliability, as long as all the magazines carried are used with the ammo being carried. I also think some carry ammo should be shot regularly to ensure everything is functioning properly, including me! Proficiency for guys like me is an ongoing process that has taken many thousands of rounds. Of course your millage may vary.
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 12:07 AM   #18
baddarryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: Cape Fear!
Posts: 1,556
OP Here: Thanks everyone for your input.

Quote:
That is a good summary, but assumes that the shooter is already experienced with a handgun of the general type as his new gun. Maybe i am just slow in learning, but I seem to recall that it took a lot more than 100 rounds to become proficient enough with a handgun to feel that I could defend myself or others without being a "menace to society." Of course I know some folks who have carry licenses (or even badges) who have never fired the gun they carry, or even any gun. I have cringed at hearing nonsense like "of course I can shoot, I saw a Western movie last week" or "shooting is instinctive, anyone can do it" or "I can hit a quarter at 200 yards fast draw, every shot."
That brings up a good point. I have carried for about 7 years, compete some and have taken some training classes. I am no pro, but feel confident in my skills and preparation, but there is always a need for more.
baddarryl is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 12:51 AM   #19
K_Mac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 1,850
I really would enjoy seeing that guy shoot the quarter. That is pretty fair shooting!
__________________
"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin
K_Mac is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 09:14 AM   #20
Prndll
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2017
Location: Texas
Posts: 123
I wouldn't really base any kind of trust on round counts necessarily. Sending hundreds of rounds down range without a malfunction isn't going to mean much if the intended target can't be hit. I've seen plenty of cars that will startup and run perfectly but couldn't be trusted to bring a pregnant woman to a hospital.

Complete confidence in your ability to adequately, accurately, and wisely put down a would-be attacker or end a life threatening situation is paramount. Trust is earned. I would recommend that whatever pistol you carry be one that you can be completely confident with. If there is any doubt in your mind, then it shouldn't be carried. Know your side arm like the back of your hand. Through and through. Know what it can do and what it can't.
Prndll is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 09:38 AM   #21
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,998
Couple of magazines and you're good to go, in my opinion. The firearm can fail at any time. As just for argument, you shoot 500 rounds. All is good. The next time out with the gun second shot jam/failure. you just never know
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA NROI Range Officer,
ICORE Range Officer,
,MAG 40 Graduate
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 09:39 AM   #22
SonOfScubaDiver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2017
Posts: 391
Just buy a Glock and feed it whatever you want! They work no matter what!


Ok, ok. I'm just havin' some fun. As far as trusting the gun to function properly, a couple hundred rounds of FMJ, and a box of HP. As far as trusting my ability to shoot it accurately--well, that varies. I thought I was becoming a fairly decent shooter until I bought my SP101 and realized that shooting it was different than shooting my semi-autos.
SonOfScubaDiver is offline  
Old December 5, 2017, 12:02 PM   #23
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 2,316
I like to have a pistol that is reliable with self-defense ammo and 2 magazines that are also well-tested.

I start off with 100 rounds of fmj to test basic functionality.
I'm somewhere around 50 rounds for my favorite SD rounds (x 2 mags). That's 5 magazine changes. If I'm only carrying 2 magazines, I feel pretty sure that I'm good to go for what I'm carrying.

I used to ask my pistols to do "X" amount of range time, but during the last ammo crunch, I re-considered what I'm actually carrying and what reliability looks like with that load.
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Old December 6, 2017, 05:37 PM   #24
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,157
If the question is how many rounds before I trust the reliability of the pistol (as I understand it to be), I would say about 100 rounds or so to put it through the paces. Then 2-3 mags of preferred carry ammo. If it's flawless during this period I'm good with it as a reliable carry weapon.

If I was not experienced and proficient with the platform, obviously, I would likely practice with a little more than 100 rounds first.
5whiskey is offline  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:50 PM   #25
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,036
A couple hundred rounds should be fine. It stings to shoot that much carry ammo, so I cheat and shoot much less of that. Carry ammo really needs to be tested, though, as some pistols don't like hollowpoints.

It's also important to make sure your pistol functions with all of your carry magzines. Unreliable magazines are uncommon, but they are real. It's also possible for magazines to become dirty over time, which can impair function.
kozak6 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09720 seconds with 8 queries