Need some help on a project (SBR)

reaper715 · July 2, 2007, 11:55 PM

I have looked at the other threads for doing an SBR but I don't understand still.
Questions:
1.what and where do I get the form to sbr my ar15?
2.where do I get the fingerprint cards from?
3.can I buy the short upper without the paperwork and not put it on my gun?
4.I think I read somewhere I have to engrave the receiver?
5.once the paperwork is back i can do whatever I want to it as long as it has a stock? right?
6. when i get the paperwork just fill it out with prints and photos andsend it in with the check and wait?
7. I know it is 200 if i change it over but only 5 when i have a dealer (certified) do it for me.
8. If I find a dealer does he have to keep the gun until the paperwork comes back?

I have done this once for a can but the dealer helped me do everything.
thanks as always for the help

ws6_keith · July 3, 2007, 12:19 AM

1. Here's the link to the ATF's firearms forms page. When I looked tonight, the 5320.1 (Form 1) that you need is offline, but I'm sure it will be back soon. http://www.atf.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms
2. Your local police station will answer this for you. They that fingerprint you will likely furnish the cards when you pay to have your prints taken. Most are on computer now.
3. NO. Just having the parts to build an illegal weapon is illegal. Now, if you also had a pistol marked/registered lower, then it would be ok since that upper could be for the pistol lower.
4. Yes, you will have to have the new manufacturer's name and city/state engraved in. YOU are the new manufacturer, so it will be your name or your companys' name and that city/state.
5. Once you are approved and have the paperwork in hand, yes, you can then install any length upper you want.
6. You will also have to have your local LE boss (chief, sheriff, etc) sign off on the Form 1, but the rest is right.
7. No, an SBR is always $200. An AOW (Any Other Weapon) is $5.
8. Still $200.

reaper715 · July 3, 2007, 12:47 AM

Thanks Keith for the information.
I am a deputy and worked in the jail before going to the road. We now have the afis machine for prints but they still do non criminal prints manually. When i bought my supressor the dealer gave me the print cards. I don't think we keep those at the office. The question about buying the short upper was actually can you buy one without the paperwork? Do you have to send the paperwork to the company you order it from before they will send it to you?
I have a bushmaster pistol already so it won't be an issue.

reaper715 · July 3, 2007, 12:50 AM

Also I forgot, if I find an NFA weapons dealer that is licensed to manufacture them is the tax stamp still 200? If I get them to do it for me does he have to keep my full sized rifle on site or can I take it home? I only asked that because I use my rifle at work.
thanks again

VUPDblue · July 3, 2007, 07:46 AM

You can go to the ATF website and click on the 'request forms' button. They will send you F1's or F4's and print cards. Also, it doesn't matter if a dealer 'builds' the weapon for you or not. It is still $200. If you buy it from a dealer, then it is transfered to you on a F4. If you build it yourself, then it is registered on a F1. Both forms require a $200 stamp.

Quote:

If I get them to do it for me does he have to keep my full sized rifle on site or can I take it home?

There is really no reason to go through a dealer for this. But if for some reason you do, he has to keep it until your forms come back.

ws6_keith · July 3, 2007, 11:37 AM

Yes, you can purchase the upper without having the paperwork. Some places may ask you for it though. Having just an upper is not a problem. Having a short upper and a rifle lower in your possession is.

The fingerprint office should have the cards. BLUE INK cards (the borders between the boxes are blue, not black) for ATF.

If you own the lower already, then the dealer is out of the picture. You will be manufacturing a SBR from your lower on the Form 1. If you are going to buy a lower that has already been registered as a SBR, then you do a Form 4 transfer instead of the Form 1 "Manufacture a firearm". Either way, you pay $200 - transfers and manufacturing is the some cost.

If you are saying that you are going to SBR a rifle you already own and use in rifle configuration, then you have to send in the Form 1 first. Once it comes back as approved, then you have your lower engraved and it's an SBR. At that time, you can buy the short upper and install.

Mr Beta · July 3, 2007, 09:02 PM

Can you use the trust method for SBRs too?

ws6_keith · July 3, 2007, 09:17 PM

Yes.

MisterPX · July 3, 2007, 09:35 PM

And if you buy a "factory" SBR, you don't need to engrave your info on it, as the factory is the manufacturer. Also, if you oreder the F1/F4 packet, it'll come with fingerprint cards and the cit. certification.

reaper715 · July 3, 2007, 09:51 PM

Thanks again for the information.
I went online and ordered the cards and paperwork.
Where do you get a lower receiver engraved?
What does it exactly have to say on the receiver?
I think I read somewhere you have to make up a serial number to be engraved on it?

reaper715 · July 3, 2007, 09:54 PM

Also I will build or buy the sbr upper from somewhere. It seems to be pricy to buy the loaded upper then the 11.5 inch barrel. Then I have to buy the bolt carrier group and charging handle. It appears to be cheaper just to buy a standard length upper then have someone cut it down and thread it for the flash hider. There isn't anything illegal about that as long as I show them my tax stamp is there?

VUPDblue · July 4, 2007, 09:48 AM

You can send your lower to Orion Arms to have it engraved. They do a fantastic job. Turnaround time is about a week. Also, you only need to have your name, city and state engraved on a SBR. You can buy short uppers just about anywhere that sells complete uppers. Check out CMMG, I have had good luck with them. If you end up buying a barrel and need it threaded, I can give you the info of the guy who does mine. You will probably never need to show your stamp when buying shorty parts because of the proliferation of AR pistols. That and it is not the manufacturers' problem what you do with a <16" barrel.

ws6_keith · July 4, 2007, 02:43 PM

VUPDblue is right, your name (or company name) and City/State is all that is required. Orion arms is getting some good reviews on AR15.com as well. I used another guy, but it's been so long, I don't remember who.

With the AR15 pistols being prevalent these days, I think most upper sellers don't even ask about the SBR paperwork anymore. I know when I bought my pistol upper (7.5"), they didn't.

Jon-Anvil_Arms · July 6, 2007, 12:07 AM

There are a very few manufacturers that will deal directly with the law abiding public and work with them to provide a factory built SBR. When the weapon is purchased and transferred that way there is no requirement at all to have any additional engraving on the weapon.

That said, most of our clients that get factory SBR's like us to laser engrave "Registered SBR" on it. Usually on the right side, just above the hammer and trigger pins. That leaves the magazine well area free for any other kind of image that would like laser engraved in that location.

Buying a complete factory gun has some advantages over doing it yourself too. You get the full factory warranty and service department backing you.

If you use one of your current lower receivers and have a C2 manufacturer register it, your still going to have to pay the $200 to transfer it to you. That $5 deal is for an AOW only, not a SBR. Also, if you use one of your current lowers the C2 will have to engrave his company name and city/state on it. The only way to get away from having additional engraving on it is to purchase it as a factory made and registered SBR.

Hope this info helps!

Jon Kruger
President, Anvil Arms LLC

July 2, 2007, 11:55 PM	#1
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	Need some help on a project (SBR) I have looked at the other threads for doing an SBR but I don't understand still. Questions: 1.what and where do I get the form to sbr my ar15? 2.where do I get the fingerprint cards from? 3.can I buy the short upper without the paperwork and not put it on my gun? 4.I think I read somewhere I have to engrave the receiver? 5.once the paperwork is back i can do whatever I want to it as long as it has a stock? right? 6. when i get the paperwork just fill it out with prints and photos andsend it in with the check and wait? 7. I know it is 200 if i change it over but only 5 when i have a dealer (certified) do it for me. 8. If I find a dealer does he have to keep the gun until the paperwork comes back? I have done this once for a can but the dealer helped me do everything. thanks as always for the help

July 3, 2007, 12:19 AM	#2
ws6_keith Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 147	1. Here's the link to the ATF's firearms forms page. When I looked tonight, the 5320.1 (Form 1) that you need is offline, but I'm sure it will be back soon. http://www.atf.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms 2. Your local police station will answer this for you. They that fingerprint you will likely furnish the cards when you pay to have your prints taken. Most are on computer now. 3. NO. Just having the parts to build an illegal weapon is illegal. Now, if you also had a pistol marked/registered lower, then it would be ok since that upper could be for the pistol lower. 4. Yes, you will have to have the new manufacturer's name and city/state engraved in. YOU are the new manufacturer, so it will be your name or your companys' name and that city/state. 5. Once you are approved and have the paperwork in hand, yes, you can then install any length upper you want. 6. You will also have to have your local LE boss (chief, sheriff, etc) sign off on the Form 1, but the rest is right. 7. No, an SBR is always $200. An AOW (Any Other Weapon) is $5. 8. Still $200. __________________ Keith http://www.ws6.com

July 3, 2007, 11:37 AM	#6
ws6_keith Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 147	Yes, you can purchase the upper without having the paperwork. Some places may ask you for it though. Having just an upper is not a problem. Having a short upper and a rifle lower in your possession is. The fingerprint office should have the cards. BLUE INK cards (the borders between the boxes are blue, not black) for ATF. If you own the lower already, then the dealer is out of the picture. You will be manufacturing a SBR from your lower on the Form 1. If you are going to buy a lower that has already been registered as a SBR, then you do a Form 4 transfer instead of the Form 1 "Manufacture a firearm". Either way, you pay $200 - transfers and manufacturing is the some cost. If you are saying that you are going to SBR a rifle you already own and use in rifle configuration, then you have to send in the Form 1 first. Once it comes back as approved, then you have your lower engraved and it's an SBR. At that time, you can buy the short upper and install. __________________ Keith http://www.ws6.com

July 3, 2007, 09:02 PM	#7
Mr Beta Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 232	Can you use the trust method for SBRs too? __________________ The two loudest sounds in the world are a click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click.

July 3, 2007, 09:17 PM	#8
ws6_keith Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 147	Yes. __________________ Keith http://www.ws6.com

July 3, 2007, 12:47 AM	#3
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	Thanks Keith for the information. I am a deputy and worked in the jail before going to the road. We now have the afis machine for prints but they still do non criminal prints manually. When i bought my supressor the dealer gave me the print cards. I don't think we keep those at the office. The question about buying the short upper was actually can you buy one without the paperwork? Do you have to send the paperwork to the company you order it from before they will send it to you? I have a bushmaster pistol already so it won't be an issue.

July 3, 2007, 12:50 AM	#4
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	Also I forgot, if I find an NFA weapons dealer that is licensed to manufacture them is the tax stamp still 200? If I get them to do it for me does he have to keep my full sized rifle on site or can I take it home? I only asked that because I use my rifle at work. thanks again

July 3, 2007, 09:35 PM	#9
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	And if you buy a "factory" SBR, you don't need to engrave your info on it, as the factory is the manufacturer. Also, if you oreder the F1/F4 packet, it'll come with fingerprint cards and the cit. certification.

July 3, 2007, 09:51 PM	#10
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	Thanks again for the information. I went online and ordered the cards and paperwork. Where do you get a lower receiver engraved? What does it exactly have to say on the receiver? I think I read somewhere you have to make up a serial number to be engraved on it?

July 3, 2007, 09:54 PM	#11
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	Also I will build or buy the sbr upper from somewhere. It seems to be pricy to buy the loaded upper then the 11.5 inch barrel. Then I have to buy the bolt carrier group and charging handle. It appears to be cheaper just to buy a standard length upper then have someone cut it down and thread it for the flash hider. There isn't anything illegal about that as long as I show them my tax stamp is there?

July 4, 2007, 09:48 AM	#12
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	You can send your lower to Orion Arms to have it engraved. They do a fantastic job. Turnaround time is about a week. Also, you only need to have your name, city and state engraved on a SBR. You can buy short uppers just about anywhere that sells complete uppers. Check out CMMG, I have had good luck with them. If you end up buying a barrel and need it threaded, I can give you the info of the guy who does mine. You will probably never need to show your stamp when buying shorty parts because of the proliferation of AR pistols. That and it is not the manufacturers' problem what you do with a <16" barrel. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 4, 2007, 02:43 PM	#13
ws6_keith Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 147	VUPDblue is right, your name (or company name) and City/State is all that is required. Orion arms is getting some good reviews on AR15.com as well. I used another guy, but it's been so long, I don't remember who. With the AR15 pistols being prevalent these days, I think most upper sellers don't even ask about the SBR paperwork anymore. I know when I bought my pistol upper (7.5"), they didn't. __________________ Keith http://www.ws6.com

July 6, 2007, 12:07 AM	#14
Jon-Anvil_Arms Junior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lakeland, FL. Posts: 3	There are a very few manufacturers that will deal directly with the law abiding public and work with them to provide a factory built SBR. When the weapon is purchased and transferred that way there is no requirement at all to have any additional engraving on the weapon. That said, most of our clients that get factory SBR's like us to laser engrave "Registered SBR" on it. Usually on the right side, just above the hammer and trigger pins. That leaves the magazine well area free for any other kind of image that would like laser engraved in that location. Buying a complete factory gun has some advantages over doing it yourself too. You get the full factory warranty and service department backing you. If you use one of your current lower receivers and have a C2 manufacturer register it, your still going to have to pay the $200 to transfer it to you. That $5 deal is for an AOW only, not a SBR. Also, if you use one of your current lowers the C2 will have to engrave his company name and city/state on it. The only way to get away from having additional engraving on it is to purchase it as a factory made and registered SBR. Hope this info helps! Jon Kruger President, Anvil Arms LLC