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Old May 14, 2019, 01:51 AM   #51
TruthTellers
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Better, cheaper, or more popular pistols came along, but make no mistake, Springfield and their stuff involving the Illinois gun dealer licensing hurt them bad, so IMO it's a combination of several things.

Personally, I think the grip safety is dumb, but I've never liked grip safeties. The only Springfield's out now that interest me are the XD-E pistols with the DA/SA trigger, but they're pricey. When I can get an LC9s or PPS M2 for under $300, a Mossberg MC1 for $350, dropping $450 on an XD-E just doesn't sit well with me.
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Old May 14, 2019, 02:26 AM   #52
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Well i own an XD357, i did research on 357 Sig pistols and the XD357 was the one that had best reviews.
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Old May 14, 2019, 05:25 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TruthTellers View Post
Better, cheaper, or more popular pistols came along, but make no mistake, Springfield and their stuff involving the Illinois gun dealer licensing hurt them bad, so IMO it's a combination of several things.

Personally, I think the grip safety is dumb, but I've never liked grip safeties. The only Springfield's out now that interest me are the XD-E pistols with the DA/SA trigger, but they're pricey. When I can get an LC9s or PPS M2 for under $300, a Mossberg MC1 for $350, dropping $450 on an XD-E just doesn't sit well with me.
"Better" in what way?

The grip safety on the XD never bothered me in the least, has never caused any problems and has never caused the pistol NOT to fire. I too, am real interested in the XDe but I have other pistols that are DA/SA and would rather not add another.

Nuthin's perfect
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Old May 14, 2019, 10:08 AM   #54
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I find this all funny.

Does Tanfoglio get a ding because their name is nowhere on the EAA Witness?
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Old May 14, 2019, 10:54 AM   #55
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XD's are falling out of favor--just like 9mm is.
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Old May 14, 2019, 11:29 AM   #56
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They have no more fallen out of favor than any other handgun on the market. I wonder when firearm owners will quit focusing on most popular or what the internet crap produces.
Most popular among whom? The vast amount of Newbie shooters that are in this crazy market or the people that buy guns and do not even make it to the range once a month?
All firearms are unique in their own way. Not everybody should buy the most popular or the most advertised. Most of the comments that go negative on a fire arm are from people that have never even shot one.
Then some internet know it all, just like the Parrots they are, repeat the same crap.
Ever go to a LGS? Walk in there and listen to the nonsense from customers that buy guns. And most likely they will buy the cheapest or the most advertised and then get on the internet to tell everybody how great their gun is and bash anything else.
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Old May 14, 2019, 11:41 AM   #57
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And most likely they will buy the cheapest or the most advertised and then get on the internet to tell everybody how great their gun is and bash anything else.
This goes both ways. Face it most semi-automatic pistols these days are BORINGLY reliable. When is the last time you had a non-induced failure with ammunition that was known reliable in that pistol? For that matter when is the last time you had a duty style pistol that was finicky on ammo?

Somehow the collective we takes this as a sign that the pistol that is currently their favorite is the greatest pistol of all time and all other pistols must be inferior.

Take the XD for example. The "normal" striker fired crowd that prefers firearms that are carried without the striker tensioned will argue the "single action" system of the XD is inherently unsafe. The XD crowd will argue that the grip safety makes the pistol fundamentally safer. Yet 99% of those carrying either system will not have a negligent discharge and nearly all negligent discharges will be operator error. Neither gun is likely to show any difference in actual use. Yet look at the amount of defending (and attacking) that will go on in regards to any pistol discussed.
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Old May 14, 2019, 12:37 PM   #58
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"Better" in what way?

The grip safety on the XD never bothered me in the least, has never caused any problems and has never caused the pistol NOT to fire. I too, am real interested in the XDe but I have other pistols that are DA/SA and would rather not add another.

Nuthin's perfect
You got me. I guess better is a relative term and I was using it in a way to say that other people found other guns "better", for them, than a Springfield XD.
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Old May 14, 2019, 01:12 PM   #59
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One more thing, and I've been wanting to bitch about this for a long time and since we're on the subject of XDs.

Some of the posters have mentioned marketing...why in the world would Springfield print "GRIP ZONE" on the grips of the MOD 2 ??...I know it doesn't bother some in the least and that's great but it completely turns me off from an otherwise excellent pistol.
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Old May 14, 2019, 01:50 PM   #60
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US Marketing rep to Croatian engineer: We need to change something about the HS2000

Engineer: Is there something not performing to expectations?

Marketer: Well.. not exactly. Its just an old design and we are having a hard time selling it.

Engineer: So what do you want changed? What can we make better

Marketer: Something to let people know this is a NEW model

Engineer: But its not a new

Marketer: Can we print "Grip Zone" right here?

Engineer: Stupid American...
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Old May 14, 2019, 06:09 PM   #61
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Was it ever in favor?

Joking aside, they never caught on with me. I don't care for grip safeties. I really don't care for the "Grip Zone". They just never struck a chord with me.

TruthTellers mentioned the XD-E. That's at least interesting because it's DA/SA. I'd been waiting for something like that since the Shield and PPS came onto the scene. Of course, in some great cosmic joke, these are the guys to answer the call. If they ever release the small one without a "Grip Zone", I might pony up the cash to buy one.
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Old May 15, 2019, 09:06 PM   #62
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1. The polymer gun market is oversaturated.
2. The XD Series is not the newest on the market
3. Phantom issues of roll pins breaking
4. Various recalls in the XD-S Line
5. Round Count for magazine (15+1 just won't do...)
6. No rappers sing about it.
7. No R. Lee Ermey Stamp Of Approval
8. All gun sales are in a slump

Glock has done such a good job with marketing and releasing updated versions of the same model every 5 years or so that they bear the Gold Standard. "It insists upon itself." Everyone who buys a Glock buys it because it's a Glock.

I personally like the XD line better than Glock (especially XDM line) for price point, stainless steel mags, grip angle, disassembly (no effing with the takedown thingies).

But somehow Glocks have held their value better. Maybe because they're ubiquitous. All mags for any generation will at least fit in any other generation. They're in movies.

Meh.
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Old May 16, 2019, 02:48 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by veprdude View Post
1. The polymer gun market is oversaturated.
That it is. Yet another striker fired 9mm subcompact? Yawn. (I actually would like to take a try at the Mossberg. Eventually.)

Quote:
2. The XD Series is not the newest on the market
Nope. Middle of the pack somewhere.

Quote:
3. Phantom issues of roll pins breaking
Anecdotal. Easy to remediate. Easy to check, as the owner ought to be tearing the slide down for cleaning periodically, anyway, right?

Quote:
4. Various recalls in the XD-S Line
Eh? Only one that I recall.

Quote:
5. Round Count for magazine (15+1 just won't do...)
Good enough for JMB and Dieudonné Saive. Oh, wait, they used 13+1. Never mind. Anyway, the 15 in my G19 seems endless to me.

(And, BTW, the 9mm subcompact XD has a 13 round capacity, vs. the G26's ten. So there.)

Quote:
6. No rappers sing about it.
7. No R. Lee Ermey Stamp Of Approval
Quote:
8. All gun sales are in a slump
And that. ironic that things are in a slump after the Great 0bama Gun & Ammo Famine, rounds 1, 2, and 3.

Quote:
Glock has done such a good job with marketing and releasing updated versions of the same model every 5 years or so that they bear the Gold Standard.
Sounds like Micro$oft Windows. "This time for sure Rocky""But that trick never works!"

Quote:
Everyone who buys a Glock buys it because it's a Glock.
<shrug>. I like mine.

When I finally decided I wanted a 9mm (after years of .45 and .40 (which I continue to have and shoot)), I wanted the most common, de-facto standard one I could find. Which was a Glock 19. Took a while, and some modifications, for me to finally warm to it.

Quote:
I personally like the XD line better than Glock (especially XDM line) for price point, stainless steel mags, grip angle, disassembly (no effing with the takedown thingies).
None of which matters a huge amount to me, ironically. Except price point, of course. I's a po' boy.

Quote:
But somehow Glocks have held their value better. Maybe because they're ubiquitous. All mags for any generation will at least fit in any other generation. They're in movies.
They work, parts are abundant and inexpensive, and they're dead easy to work on, and everyone makes stuff for Glocks.

Anyway,

Internet social media amplifies unsound opinion, and obsesses over details that don't matter.
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Old May 16, 2019, 10:36 PM   #64
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I used to sell used magazines at gun shows. I couldn't sell an XD magazine until the mod 2 came out then I was swamped with people wanting one. That fizzled out. Then everyone came looking for Taurus PT111 Pro Mags that I had never sold and had a bag of. It was the G2C hitting the market.

Whatever the newest thing on the market is what is selling. Then it fizzles out. Then it's something else. I like XDs but they're yesterday's news. They are a fantastic bargain right now in my opinion.
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Old May 17, 2019, 06:19 AM   #65
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Everyone who buys a Glock buys it because it's a Glock
Incorrect. I bought my G29 because it is the only 10MM (at the time) available in its form factor. There wasn't even an option B

I bought my G19 after specifically trying to not buy a Glock and handling virtually every other option available at the time. In the end the G19 just fit right. And I really tried not to buy the soulless thing. Granted I did not give the other soulless striker fired "copies" a meaningful chance in my hunt because I believe the benchmark over decades is that for a reason but I tried hard to like something else (preferably hammer fired) to do what it does. For the record the CZ-P07 struck me as top heavy when handled (granted handled without a loaded magazine)
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Old May 17, 2019, 09:29 AM   #66
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For the record the CZ-P07 struck me as top heavy when handled (granted handled without a loaded magazine)
Until they come up with ultra-light non-steel slides and barrels, that'll be a feature of lighter polymer-framed handguns. They often do feel better when full. It seems a little funny having the ammo make the difference in balance. Once you get using them though, it's really not an issue.
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Old May 17, 2019, 09:44 AM   #67
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Until they come up with ultra-light non-steel slides and barrels, that'll be a feature of lighter polymer-framed handguns. They often do feel better when full. It seems a little funny having the ammo make the difference in balance. Once you get using them though, it's really not an issue.
Yeh - I have thought about that more since I have done it. I have probably thought about it an unhealthy amount. I compared it and the Glock to each other and favored the Glock because I did not notice the issue (even after noticing it in the CZ and specifically checking). I think you are right though and a loaded magazine would have made a difference. Maybe some "genius" marketer somewhere will distribute dummy weighted magazines to gun shops just for comparison purposes. Maybe it would help some manufacturers sell more guns if people perceive a particular gun when being handled empty as misbalanced.

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Old May 17, 2019, 10:08 AM   #68
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I prefer the original XD , never liked the later generations, they just look so civilian looking

the old model looks like a military service pistol, no grip zone or cheese grater texture

I still prefer the GLOCK because it's so easy to maintain , no need to send it back for a new extractor or something, with a Glock you can do it all yourself in minutes, and the supply, support is high.
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Old May 20, 2019, 05:42 AM   #69
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Other than maybe cool looks or brand loyalty, I'm not really sure what any given model has going for it these days. The market is so saturated already, and there are new models every week it seems. The big guys like Glock, S&W and Sig all at least have that "police and military use us, and you've heard our names in lots of movies" thing. But damn near everyone has a plastic striker fired gun these days, from Shotgun makers to garage startup brands.

Maybe XD is in that middle territory, where they never were big-name enough to sell just on that basis (how many cool, tough action movie dudes are known for carrying an XD?) but also not in "loyal cult-following fanboy" territory like CZ or HK? (I'm a CZ fanboy so I know what I'm talking about!). Perhaps they're just one of a million models that all have sights, triggers, and shoot lead.
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Old May 20, 2019, 05:50 AM   #70
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Maybe XD is in that middle territory, where they never were big-name enough to sell just on that basis (how many cool, tough action movie dudes are known for carrying an XD?) but also not in "loyal cult-following fanboy" territory like CZ or HK? (I'm a CZ fanboy so I know what I'm talking about!). Perhaps they're just one of a million models that all have sights, triggers, and shoot lead.
I think the "middle ground loyalty" to the XD is from people like me who favor their "will go bang no matter what" reliability; sorta like the AK of poly handguns. I have relatively small hands--but for some unknown reason (compared to my large frame Glocks anyway) I can shoot this gun more accurately than other large-grip pistols.
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Old May 20, 2019, 06:42 AM   #71
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their "will go bang no matter what" reliability
This is so common though I don't think its fair to speak of it as if it is some remarkable feat. Most of today's auto pistols are boringly reliable
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Old May 20, 2019, 07:23 AM   #72
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This is so common though I don't think its fair to speak of it as if it is some remarkable feat. Most of today's auto pistols are boringly reliable
Yeah that was my thought too. People put crazy high round counts through almost everything and rarely have problems, if ever. That's not to knock the XD series. I had a Mod.2 subcompact for about a year and it was comfortable and yes, 100% reliable. I just never seemed able to control it very well under rapid fire. I don't know why. I shoot other guns better. But the gun itself was great and I'd never hesitate to recommend it.

Although, the new breed of high-round-count 9mms may make all of these guns obsolete

Maybe Springfield will put out an XD-S that carries 15 rounds
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