New revolver guy -- and new to .38 special

[OhioGuy]

Just picked up a .38 special +p rated J-frame. Had it for two days and I'm already impressed at how easy it is to carry this thing!

Looked at lots of .38 gel tests. Lucky Gunner rules.

Looks like, out of really short barrels like this one, no ammo is really going to steal the show, and minus a few total flunkies, most that he tested came in around the 12-13" average penetration. +p didn't seem to matter much in the 2" barrels, maybe a slight edge when he tested with the 4" barrels.

All came up consistently short of typical 9mm performance from 3" barrels.

My takeaway with 9mm defensive ammo was "pick any major reputable brand, and don't miss." With .38 it seems "pick any major reputable brand, and REALLY don't miss cuz ya only gots 5 shots."

I picked up Critical Defense 110 grain +p, because it was a decent price, pretty well rated and the little red rubber tips look cool.

I guess my questions here:

1. Since expansion on any of these is not tremendous, and penetration is overall shallow, is it ballistically better to just shoot FMJ? (Similar questions are often asked of .380 ACP)

2. I haven't had a chance to shoot the new ammo yet -- does +p really make much recoil difference?

I have shot .357 magnum from an airweight revolver once before, and do not care to repeat that experience -- although within 10' I think the bad guy would have been consumed in a ball of fire

[RVER]

With .38 Spl +P out of a 2" barrel the 125 Gr Remington Golden Saber, the 130 Gr Winchester Ranger L.E., or the 135 Gr Speer Gold Dot are about the only reliable expanding rounds IN GEL AND IN A CONTROLLED LABORATORY SETTING. The reality is that much like the .380, the .38 2" is comfortable to carry and accurate, at the cost of lower velocity.

My choice would be the Ruger ARX or the Winchester 148 Gr Wadcutter. They each will give you 16" or so of reliable penetration.

"Mom & Pop" citizens have been shooting bad guys with round nose .22, .32, .380, and .38 class of cartridges in pocket sized guns for well over 125 years with great success, and without the benefit of tactical training, high Cap magazines, lasers... there's no reason to think that these cartridges/ firearms have suddenly stopped working. Stay safe & focus 99% of your training on putting your rounds on target, 1% on relaoding (because I don't know of any instances where a citizen has had to reload), and less on the FMJ vs JHP debate with the smaller calibers. A great Snubby drill is: silhouette target, 3 yards, 3 shots, 3 seconds from concealed draw. As you get better at it keep moving back to the 7 yard line.

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[CDR_Glock]

I wouldn’t shoot a 357 Magnum in a revolver less than 21 ounces.

Airweight, titanium, polymer or Scandium is unpleasant for prolonged range sessions.

However 357 Magnum in a S&W 640 357 Magnum 5 Shot (24 Oz) or a Bond Arms 357 Magnum 2 Round Derringer (21 Oz) is manageable.

My friend and I had a S&W 442 airweight. After about 10k rounds of 38 +P the frame did not hold up well.

It was not repairable. S&W offered to sell him another at a discount, but that is when he decided to go to the S&W 640 357 Magnum 5 Shot.


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[2damnold4this]

I can't tell a difference in recoil between the 110 grain Hornady CD and the +p 110 grain CD in my 642 and 342. Both are easy to control.

Since your revolver has fixed sights, you may want to experiment with several loads that do well on gel test to find one that hits to point of aim. I would not use FMJ or lead round nose ammunition in a .38 Special for defensive purposes as there are better choices out there.

[USSR]

OhioGuy,

As a guy who CC's a .38 snubbie, here's my take on proper ammo. Regarding penetration, it's all about SD and the bullet holding together and not over expanding. So forget the 110gr and 125gr bi-metallic bullets and go to a soft lead 158gr HP bullet driven at .38 Special +P velocities. Good luck finding a soft lead bullet in the era of the "hard cast bullet". I cast my own and you can see the results for yourself. Tin ain't cheap, and that is just one of the reasons why the commercial casters use little of it. But tin, as opposed to the large amounts of antimony used by the commercial casters, makes for a malleable bullet that both expands and retains bullet weight. Hope that helps.

Don

[JimCunn]

Don, where do you get your lead?

[USSR]

Don, where do you get your lead?

A local scrap yard. All you have to do is basically know the alloy of the various sources of lead available, and cast them into separate ingots to allow you to make you own alloy depending upon the intended use of your bullets.

Don

[ligonierbill]

Speer still sells a swaged 158 semi-wadcutter hollowpoint. Not a hardcast bullet. Give it a try.

[FITASC]

I have a 642 and can readily tell the difference between a 38spl and a +P round.

[Ben Dover]

For seriuous social use, stick to factory ammo.

The old "metro" load of 158 LSWCHP +P served law enforcement very well for many decades.

[USSR]

The only way to become proficient with a handgun is to practice. The only way to afford to practice on a regular basis is to reload. I carry what I practice with.

Don

[OhioGuy]

I seriously considered the Ruger LCR in 9mm precisely for ammunition cost reasons. I can land aluminum cased 9mm for $8/box. Lucky to find .38sp for $16.

to continue getting more proficient with revolvers in general, I'm a rent a 22LR revolver at my range. I can rent that for $5 and for about $8 get a hundred rounds I'm ammo for it. All that for less than the price of a box of 38 special

[USSR]

100 rounds of my .38 Special +P FBI Load costs me about $6.

Don

[tallball]

I have quite a few "carry" handguns.

I carry a snub 38 more often than anything else.

[Mycin]

1. Since expansion on any of these is not tremendous, and penetration is overall shallow, is it ballistically better to just shoot FMJ? (Similar questions are often asked of .380 ACP)

I'll repeat something I heard in regards to 380ACP that resonated with me, and also applies here.

Maybe the hollow point won't always expand. If it does expand, fine, but if it doesn't, what you're left with should basically perform like a round-nose flat-point bullet, which is a better bullet profile for wounding than a fully round nose bullet (at least marginally). I'd go with a hollow point. You'll be no worse off, and probably better off, than with a round nose FMJ.

Edit: If you DO want to go non-expanding, go with full wadcutters. They're much better man-stoppers than round-nose rounds, by all accounts.

[zoo]

My suggestion is that if you only have five or six shots get yourself a grip laser attached to that weapon. You REALLY want each shot to count.

[JimCunn]

"All you have to do is basically know the alloy of the various sources of lead available".

Do you analyze the alloys in a chem lab? (I've done that, and it is a bit of a pain in the rear), or is there a printed source available?

Years ago, I bought a surplus 6000 pound soft lead ballast weight forc$25, and cast bullets out of that sucker for years. Eventually, it was stolen, but I got my money's worth out of it.

[osbornk]

I have 2 snubbies. I have a Taurus 5 shot DAO 605 357 Magnum and a 6 shot Taurus 856. I bought a Charter Arms double action 22 revolver to learn how to shoot a double action revolver accurately. It's amazing how well you can shoot double action after a couple of thousand rounds of 22.

[JimCunn]

"My suggestion is that if you only have five or six shots get yourself a grip laser attached to that weapon".

You mean like this Hogue? I have three, but eventually removed two and reverted to Altamont combat grips.

Edit - image upload failed

[zoo]

Well, the Altamont combat grips hanging on your revolver near ones carcass will certainly help make for a classy death picture from the crime scene!

Hey, like I've always said- If you gotta be dead ain't nothing wrong with looking good!

[OhioGuy]

Reloading isn't something I'm up for at this point in life -- barely have enough time to get to the range as it is!

Anything wrong with steel or aluminum cased .38 loads? I know those can have trouble feeding in semi-autos, but in a revolver cylinder it would seem to be a non issue....?

[OhioGuy]

Sheesh, looking around at internet bulk specials, once shipping is included, even the cheap crap comes out to $15/box. I should've picked a cheaper caliber

I can get the Crimson Trace boot grips for $175, which would be about 11 boxes of ammo, but then every shot with dry fire would show exactly where I'd be hitting. I guess a laser might pay for itself pretty quick, not to mention make me more accurate given the tiny sights on this 442.

My shooting skills improved tremendously when I got a 9mm laser cartridge, suddenly every dry fire session became valuable feedback. I can see real value in the laser.

[USSR]

"All you have to do is basically know the alloy of the various sources of lead available".

Do you analyze the alloys in a chem lab? (I've done that, and it is a bit of a pain in the rear), or is there a printed source available?

Years ago, I bought a surplus 6000 pound soft lead ballast weight forc$25, and cast bullets out of that sucker for years. Eventually, it was stolen, but I got my money's worth out of it.

JimCunn,

I don't go to the degree of doing a laboratory analysis of every piece of lead, but rather accept the commonly held opinion as to what each type of lead represents. For example, lead pipe and lead sheathing are considered pure lead for the most part. Linotype is considered to be 84% lead, 12% antimony, and 4% tin. Clip-On wheel weights are considered to be 96.5% lead, 3% antimony, and 0.5% tin. Any slight differences in alloy content are simply background noise. I use an Excel file that allows me to mix the different alloys together to create the alloy I want. I am a big believer in restraining antimony content and using more tin than antimony. BTW, lead ballast can be anything, so I tend to stick with lead sources of known content, of which the above examples are the most commonly found at scrap yards. Hope this helped.

Don

[dahermit]

Originally Posted by JimCunn

"All you have to do is basically know the alloy of the various sources of lead available".

Do you analyze the alloys in a chem lab? (I've done that, and it is a bit of a pain in the rear), or is there a printed source available?

Years ago, I bought a surplus 6000 pound soft lead ballast weight forc$25, and cast bullets out of that sucker for years. Eventually, it was stolen, but I got my money's worth out of it.

For most of my shooting (.38 revolver with very light target loads), the lead alloy does not matter. Since the last primary lead smelter in the U.S. has closed, and the sources of lead lessens, bullet casters will do well if they can find any lead alloy in quantity with which to cast bullets. I don't turn up my nose at any source of lead inasmuch as I have never found any lead that is uncontaminated with zinc that would not make an acceptable revolver bullet for reasonable velocities.

[USSR]

dahermit,

I cast mostly hollowpoints, with hollowpoints the alloy DOES matter.

Don