Remington Core-Lokt in an Kar98K

Wrothgar · June 15, 2009, 10:57 PM

I keep hearing that you shouldn't shoot modern hunting loads in these old rifles. I've been shooting privi partizan in it, but I want to take it hunting in the fall and use Core-Lokt, but not if my gun is going to blow up. I have no idea how old it is, as I don't know how to read the any of the stampings on it (maybe someone could tell me where to learn that stuff?) I know its a real German Mauser as its got the eagles and swastikas.

KLRANGL · June 16, 2009, 01:09 PM

If I remember correctly, modern commercial ammo is not as hot as old military surplus ammo, so it would be fine. Double check on that though. Ive definitely heard of people using the Remingtons in their old Mausers just fine. I even have some Remington Soft Points myself, just havnt used them yet.

Deadguy · June 16, 2009, 05:23 PM

That will be fine. Remington Core-Lokt is noticibly weaker than the military rounds, and commercial European loads, for 8x57S, the round used in the Kar98. However, using it in an 1888 Commission Rifle might not be the best idea.

Drachenstein · June 16, 2009, 06:18 PM

Hunted with them in a K98 for years, no problem. What you will find is the incredible damage an 8mm will do. It even flipped a doe one year. If it weren't for aging eyesight I'd still be hunting with it.

Webleymkv · June 16, 2009, 06:41 PM

American-made 8mm Mauser ammunition is downloaded considerably. This is done out of deference to older M1888 Commission Rifles and some M98 Sporters with .318 bores. You see, there are actually two 8x57 Mauser cartridges: 8x57J and 8x57JS. The original 8x57J used .318 diameter bullets while the newer 8x57JS uses .323 bullets. The thought is that while American manufacturers use the larger .323 bullet, perhaps the reduced pressure would prevent a KB if their ammunition is fired in a .318 barrel. Your K98 (along with all military M98 8mm Mausers) should have the more modern .323 bore and is therefore safe to fire with any 8x57 ammo (though accuracy would be quite poor with 8x57J due to the undersize .318 bullets). The M1888 Commission rifle was originally chambered for the older 8x57J round though many were later converted to the 8x57JS round. The only M98 Mausers that may not be safe with 8x57JS ammo are older sporters. Many German gunsmiths made sporting rifles with M98 actions for the older 8x57J cartridge because many hunters and sportsmen at the time thought the .318 bullet and bore combination to be more accurate than the newer .323 diameter.

Wrothgar · June 16, 2009, 08:37 PM

Thanks for the info guys!

I found that where it says BCD for the armory markings, which I found out refers to the Wilhelm-Gustloff-Werke, Weimar. Numbers don't match as its an RC. It does, however, say Model 98 on the side of the receiver next to the bolt. Anyway, interesting stuff. I love these old guns.

Now, where do I find the year?

F. Guffey · June 17, 2009, 07:29 AM

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx

F. Guffey

Wrothgar · June 17, 2009, 09:25 AM

Guffey - what's that about?

F. Guffey · June 17, 2009, 03:23 PM

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/mauser.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/old_mausers.htm

http://proofhouse.com/index.htm

http://proofhouse.com/cm/ger_ord_codes.htm

F. Guffey

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx

I thought the question was about ammo, surplus military and commercial,

The Yugo and Romanian ammo would be more like your Remington ammo.

"The Turkish ammo closely resembles the 1916 version, German S cartridge which (according to Olson) has a muzzle velocity of 2936 fps from 29" barrel and pressure of 44,082 lbs/sq in. The Yugo ammo would duplicate the German sS cartridge for which Olson gives 2575 fps in 29" barrel and 46,926 lbs/sq in."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yugo Ball, 1940, 199gr Yugo Ball, 1954, 199gr
2388 fps 2491 fps
2386 2498
2366 2499
2357 2504
2369 2501
31 fps Extreme Spread 13 fps Extreme Spread
2373 fps Average Velocity 2498 fps Average Velocity
Fired cases exhibited signs of normal pressures Fired cases exhibited signs of normal pressures...Some leaky primers

Romanian Ball, 1974, 154 gr
2678 fps
2621
2619
2618
2622
60 fps Extreme Spread (first shot was a major flyer)
2632 fps Average Velocity
Fired cases exhibited no high pressure indicators.

Most of the information above is in the first link to Turkish ammo, as stated the Turk ammo is close to the German 'S' cartridge of 1916, this being true the Germans using Mausers did not get the .318 and .323 confused, or?

F. Guffey · June 17, 2009, 03:49 PM

http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/german-codes.htm

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · June 17, 2009, 03:53 PM

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/Welcome.html

F. Guffey

James K · June 18, 2009, 07:36 PM

Remington 8mm Mauser Core-Lokt will be perfectly OK for hunting, as will any other expanding bullet load. (Forget about the surplus ammo except for practice; most states ban the use of military full metal jacket bullets for hunting.) As others have said, US 8mm Mauser ammunition is under loaded compared to the original German GI ammo.

Ignore the stuff about .318 bullets and 8x57j, and so on. The K.98k never used any bullet but the .323" and the German standard load (7.9 sS* ball) is a real stomper at both ends, a 196 grain bullet at over 2600 fps.

*Schweres Spitzegeschoss, or heavy pointed bullet; the term has no connection with Hitler's Schützstaffel (protection force).

Jim

**44 AMP** · June 19, 2009, 11:42 PM

The warnings about not shooting US commercial ammo in old military rifles applies to US military rifles! Particularly the .30-06 round. Early batches of 1903 Springfield rifles are known to have inferior heat treating of the actions! Do a search, and you can find the ser# range of the "good" ones. Also, be aware that US comercial .30-06 ammo is considerably hotter today than the GI loadings.

GI .30-06 is a 150gr @2750fps (or a 173gr @2640) while commercial hunting ammo is a 150gr @ 2900+fps! This ammo is not suitable for the M1 garand rifles, although the good quality 1903 and 1917 rifles will handle it.

Virtually all US loaded ammo for European military calibers is not loaded as hot as European made ammo. And this includes hunting ammo for those calibers.

If your Mauser is safe to shoot with European ammo, it is safe to shoot with Remington Core-Lokt.

Wrothgar · June 19, 2009, 11:52 PM

Just curious: you said not to shoot modern 30-06 out of a Garrand. What would one shoot out of it then?

mdshooter · June 20, 2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Just curious: you said not to shoot modern 30-06 out of a Garrand. What would one shoot out of it then?

Either surplus M2 Ball or a modern load designed specifically for the Garand's gas system. Hornady produces match ammo tailored for the Garand.

Modern .30-06 ammo uses different powders than the military round, and the higher pressures (and different pressure curves) that result can damage the Garand... bent op rods are one possibility.

Wulfmann · June 20, 2009, 09:57 AM

Wideners has the Privi Partisan 8MM soft point which is the full charge and fine for that RC K98k.
The Remington Core lock (A reduced load not much better than a 30/30) will have a bigger drop so make sure you do some range testing to know where it lands at various ranges, say 50-100 and 200 yards.

BCD is the Gustloff code. It likely has a 4 under that. A 1943 would say 43 but in 1944 they just dropped the 3 to indicate 1944 and continued the 4 into 1945 as events made such trivialities mute. It is doubtful any other Gustloff parts are ion the gun being a Russian parts gun. If you look under the bolt handle and post what the number on the proof is we can tell you who made the bolt (Gustloff would have a 1 or I)

There are 8MM Mausers one should be careful of using full charges like some of the Spanish or Turk but most of these are also OK (need to be checked).
The German K98k, Czech VZ-24 and Yugo 24/47 and M48 along with the Czech and German made contract guns are about as strong and safe as a bolt gun gets. If the bore looks decent the bolt locks up fairly tight i would not hesitate to trust it and have done so on a couple hundred of them.

Wulfmann

June 15, 2009, 10:57 PM	#1
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	Remington Core-Lokt in an Kar98K I keep hearing that you shouldn't shoot modern hunting loads in these old rifles. I've been shooting privi partizan in it, but I want to take it hunting in the fall and use Core-Lokt, but not if my gun is going to blow up. I have no idea how old it is, as I don't know how to read the any of the stampings on it (maybe someone could tell me where to learn that stuff?) I know its a real German Mauser as its got the eagles and swastikas.

June 16, 2009, 01:09 PM	#2
KLRANGL Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 958	If I remember correctly, modern commercial ammo is not as hot as old military surplus ammo, so it would be fine. Double check on that though. Ive definitely heard of people using the Remingtons in their old Mausers just fine. I even have some Remington Soft Points myself, just havnt used them yet. __________________ And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

June 19, 2009, 11:42 PM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Just FYI The warnings about not shooting US commercial ammo in old military rifles applies to US military rifles! Particularly the .30-06 round. Early batches of 1903 Springfield rifles are known to have inferior heat treating of the actions! Do a search, and you can find the ser# range of the "good" ones. Also, be aware that US comercial .30-06 ammo is considerably hotter today than the GI loadings. GI .30-06 is a 150gr @2750fps (or a 173gr @2640) while commercial hunting ammo is a 150gr @ 2900+fps! This ammo is not suitable for the M1 garand rifles, although the good quality 1903 and 1917 rifles will handle it. Virtually all US loaded ammo for European military calibers is not loaded as hot as European made ammo. And this includes hunting ammo for those calibers. If your Mauser is safe to shoot with European ammo, it is safe to shoot with Remington Core-Lokt. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 20, 2009, 09:57 AM	#16
Wulfmann Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Central Florida Posts: 188	Wideners has the Privi Partisan 8MM soft point which is the full charge and fine for that RC K98k. The Remington Core lock (A reduced load not much better than a 30/30) will have a bigger drop so make sure you do some range testing to know where it lands at various ranges, say 50-100 and 200 yards. BCD is the Gustloff code. It likely has a 4 under that. A 1943 would say 43 but in 1944 they just dropped the 3 to indicate 1944 and continued the 4 into 1945 as events made such trivialities mute. It is doubtful any other Gustloff parts are ion the gun being a Russian parts gun. If you look under the bolt handle and post what the number on the proof is we can tell you who made the bolt (Gustloff would have a 1 or I) There are 8MM Mausers one should be careful of using full charges like some of the Spanish or Turk but most of these are also OK (need to be checked). The German K98k, Czech VZ-24 and Yugo 24/47 and M48 along with the Czech and German made contract guns are about as strong and safe as a bolt gun gets. If the bore looks decent the bolt locks up fairly tight i would not hesitate to trust it and have done so on a couple hundred of them. Wulfmann __________________ "The right to bear arms should not be infringed upon if only to prevent tyranny in government". Thomas Jefferson, Constitutional debates

June 16, 2009, 05:23 PM	#3
Deadguy Member Join Date: April 17, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 93	That will be fine. Remington Core-Lokt is noticibly weaker than the military rounds, and commercial European loads, for 8x57S, the round used in the Kar98. However, using it in an 1888 Commission Rifle might not be the best idea.

June 16, 2009, 06:18 PM	#4
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	Hunted with them in a K98 for years, no problem. What you will find is the incredible damage an 8mm will do. It even flipped a doe one year. If it weren't for aging eyesight I'd still be hunting with it.

June 16, 2009, 06:41 PM	#5
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	American-made 8mm Mauser ammunition is downloaded considerably. This is done out of deference to older M1888 Commission Rifles and some M98 Sporters with .318 bores. You see, there are actually two 8x57 Mauser cartridges: 8x57J and 8x57JS. The original 8x57J used .318 diameter bullets while the newer 8x57JS uses .323 bullets. The thought is that while American manufacturers use the larger .323 bullet, perhaps the reduced pressure would prevent a KB if their ammunition is fired in a .318 barrel. Your K98 (along with all military M98 8mm Mausers) should have the more modern .323 bore and is therefore safe to fire with any 8x57 ammo (though accuracy would be quite poor with 8x57J due to the undersize .318 bullets). The M1888 Commission rifle was originally chambered for the older 8x57J round though many were later converted to the 8x57JS round. The only M98 Mausers that may not be safe with 8x57JS ammo are older sporters. Many German gunsmiths made sporting rifles with M98 actions for the older 8x57J cartridge because many hunters and sportsmen at the time thought the .318 bullet and bore combination to be more accurate than the newer .323 diameter.

June 16, 2009, 08:37 PM	#6
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	Thanks for the info guys! I found that where it says BCD for the armory markings, which I found out refers to the Wilhelm-Gustloff-Werke, Weimar. Numbers don't match as its an RC. It does, however, say Model 98 on the side of the receiver next to the bolt. Anyway, interesting stuff. I love these old guns. Now, where do I find the year?

June 17, 2009, 07:29 AM	#7
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx F. Guffey

June 17, 2009, 09:25 AM	#8
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	Guffey - what's that about?

June 17, 2009, 03:23 PM	#9
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/mauser.htm http://www.chuckhawks.com/old_mausers.htm http://proofhouse.com/index.htm http://proofhouse.com/cm/ger_ord_codes.htm F. Guffey http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx I thought the question was about ammo, surplus military and commercial, The Yugo and Romanian ammo would be more like your Remington ammo. "The Turkish ammo closely resembles the 1916 version, German S cartridge which (according to Olson) has a muzzle velocity of 2936 fps from 29" barrel and pressure of 44,082 lbs/sq in. The Yugo ammo would duplicate the German sS cartridge for which Olson gives 2575 fps in 29" barrel and 46,926 lbs/sq in." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yugo Ball, 1940, 199gr Yugo Ball, 1954, 199gr 2388 fps 2491 fps 2386 2498 2366 2499 2357 2504 2369 2501 31 fps Extreme Spread 13 fps Extreme Spread 2373 fps Average Velocity 2498 fps Average Velocity Fired cases exhibited signs of normal pressures Fired cases exhibited signs of normal pressures...Some leaky primers Romanian Ball, 1974, 154 gr 2678 fps 2621 2619 2618 2622 60 fps Extreme Spread (first shot was a major flyer) 2632 fps Average Velocity Fired cases exhibited no high pressure indicators. Most of the information above is in the first link to Turkish ammo, as stated the Turk ammo is close to the German 'S' cartridge of 1916, this being true the Germans using Mausers did not get the .318 and .323 confused, or?

June 17, 2009, 03:49 PM	#10
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://home.scarlet.be/p.colmant/german-codes.htm F. Guffey

June 17, 2009, 03:53 PM	#11
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/Welcome.html F. Guffey

June 18, 2009, 07:36 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Remington 8mm Mauser Core-Lokt will be perfectly OK for hunting, as will any other expanding bullet load. (Forget about the surplus ammo except for practice; most states ban the use of military full metal jacket bullets for hunting.) As others have said, US 8mm Mauser ammunition is under loaded compared to the original German GI ammo. Ignore the stuff about .318 bullets and 8x57j, and so on. The K.98k never used any bullet but the .323" and the German standard load (7.9 sS* ball) is a real stomper at both ends, a 196 grain bullet at over 2600 fps. *Schweres Spitzegeschoss, or heavy pointed bullet; the term has no connection with Hitler's Schützstaffel (protection force). Jim

June 19, 2009, 11:52 PM	#14
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	Just curious: you said not to shoot modern 30-06 out of a Garrand. What would one shoot out of it then?