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Old September 18, 2018, 05:31 PM   #1
5pins
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Federal 9mm 115gr JHP +P+ in Clear Ballistics Gel



Test Gun: Sig P229, Beretta Nano.
Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Federal 9mm 115gr JHP +P+.(9bple)
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 1234, 1188fps
Gel Temperature 71 degrees.


Many of you reading this will be familiar with this round. The 9bple as it is so often referred to. At this time the price is not much more than some FMJ practice ammo that's available. SG ammo probably has the best price right now at around $15 a box when it's in stock. It shot well out of both guns at 10 yards.


Out of the P229, it had an average velocity of 1234fps with a high of 1249fps and a low of 1223fps.



In the Nano, I got an average velocity of 1188fps with a high of 1201 and a low of 1175fps.



Starting with the P229, the first round had a velocity of 1251fps and penetrated to 9.5 inches. The bullet expanded to .69 inches and had a recovered weight of 114.8 grains. Round two's velocity of 1244fps, penetrated to 10.25 inches, expanded to .66 inches, and a weight of 113.8 grains.



Through the clothed covered gel the first shot penetrated 13 inches and expanded to .61 inches at a velocity of 1217fps and had a recovered weight of 114.2 grains. Round two hit the gel block at 1257fps and penetrated to 17.75 inches. It expanded to .53 inches and had a recovered weight of 113.8 grains.



Out of the Beretta Nano, the first round had a velocity of 1183fps, penetrated to 11.75 inches and expanded to .63 inches with a recovered weight of 113.9 grains. Round two's velocity was 1158fps. The bullet penetrated to 11 inches with .65 inches of expansion and a recovered weight of113.9 grains.

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Old September 18, 2018, 05:38 PM   #2
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Outdated, minimal penetration round. Good test though!!
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Old September 18, 2018, 08:24 PM   #3
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The 9BPLE round has a well earned reputation as a fight stopper and it wasn't so long ago that it was very popular among big LE agencies. Dekalb County GA sheriffs office used it for a long time and it proved itself in many shootings there. Humans haven't changed a bit in the last 20 years and it is just as effective on them today as yesterday. And, as the OP pointed out, it is very reasonably priced and comes in 50 round boxes to boot. I've chrono'd it at over 1300fps out of a 5" HK USP.
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Old September 20, 2018, 02:52 PM   #4
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Thanks again for this one 5pins. Used a bunch of 9BPLE, carried it,etc.

WC, My results are similar to yours. Chronographed it in my USP Expert with ~5.2" bbl, averaged 1351 FPS. And believe it or not, just over 1200 FPS in a 2" S&W revolver.
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Old September 20, 2018, 07:40 PM   #5
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Outdated, minimal penetration round.
People have not changed that much since this was the go to round for all the Feds carrying the 9mm. It works just fine on real people.
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Old September 23, 2018, 09:08 PM   #6
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What’s really nice is this is available in 1,000 round cases for around $260. So even though I carry a newer JHP for carry,it allowed me over the last year to get two cases to put away for shtf use .
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Old September 23, 2018, 10:59 PM   #7
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Well I guess the faster the better huh? Clearly this round fragments too much and penetration is not considered acceptable by the scientifically backed measure of the FBI’s testing protocols. Why not crank that round up another few hundred FPS so it’ll totally blow up in the first few inches of tissue? Then we’ll be sure it won’t reach vital organs and the CNS! Who needs to destroy those when seconds count when we can make a nasty, shallow flesh wound??

I guess you know more than the FBI on the subject of wound ballistics... of course you do, this is the internet after all.

Have you SEEN some of the people walking around lately? We live in a nation of BIG, FAT people. There are simply much better rounds than this on the market today, I don’t care how fast this load is or how cheap it is. For a few cents more per round you can get the superb and just as proven Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST loads that don’t compromise and who’s projectiles properly hold together for ideal weight retention and penetration through various media.

Last edited by Model12Win; September 23, 2018 at 11:05 PM.
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Old September 24, 2018, 05:31 PM   #8
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Well I guess the faster the better huh? Clearly this round fragments too much and penetration is not considered acceptable by the scientifically backed measure of the FBI’s testing protocols. Why not crank that round up another few hundred FPS so it’ll totally blow up in the first few inches of tissue? Then we’ll be sure it won’t reach vital organs and the CNS! Who needs to destroy those when seconds count when we can make a nasty, shallow flesh wound??

I guess you know more than the FBI on the subject of wound ballistics... of course you do, this is the internet after all.
The 115gr +P+ may not be the best option today. Gold Dots, HST, and many other modern rounds may be far more capable. But that doesn't change the fact that 115 +P+ earned a reputation on the street as a very effective round.
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Old September 27, 2018, 08:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Model12Win View Post
Well I guess the faster the better huh? Clearly this round fragments too much and penetration is not considered acceptable by the scientifically backed measure of the FBI’s testing protocols. Why not crank that round up another few hundred FPS so it’ll totally blow up in the first few inches of tissue? Then we’ll be sure it won’t reach vital organs and the CNS! Who needs to destroy those when seconds count when we can make a nasty, shallow flesh wound??

I guess you know more than the FBI on the subject of wound ballistics... of course you do, this is the internet after all.

Have you SEEN some of the people walking around lately? We live in a nation of BIG, FAT people. There are simply much better rounds than this on the market today, I don’t care how fast this load is or how cheap it is. For a few cents more per round you can get the superb and just as proven Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST loads that don’t compromise and who’s projectiles properly hold together for ideal weight retention and penetration through various media.
Wow, that's quite a rant. Just because the 9BPLE round doesn't have the latest whiz-bang projectile doesn't mean it's no longer a good choice for personal defense use. It has a reputation for accuracy and reliable feeding in most pistols, it is reasonably priced, and has a long history of very effective use in actual shootings. That's pretty important since humans haven't changed any in the last 20 years.

For many of us the sun does not rise and set on the FBI's opinions/stats/test results and the utmost in barrier and auto glass penetration aren't high on my list of ammunition performance requirements. I'm more interested in ammunition that works as advertised and this round does. I need quality, effective, affordable, carry ammo and Federal 9BPLE still checks all those boxes.
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Old September 27, 2018, 08:52 AM   #10
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Real world doesn’t always equal the lab.

Are HST/GoldDot etc. etc. better bullets? ABSOLUTELY!!

That doesn’t take away from the fact that the 9BPLE has a long history of actual real world very successful stops on actual real world angry mean to do you harm folks.

Would HST.......... and so on have done just as well or better in its place......I dunno, probably but that doesn’t take away from the real world results.

Hanging ones hat on lab results or statistics may do one a disservice as chances are you are going to need a whole bunch of those little pieces of copper jacketed hollow points to do the job no matter what you choose. So firing a single wunderbullet and expecting job done may get you killed.

Full disclosure I am a HST/Gold Dot guy.
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Old September 29, 2018, 11:32 AM   #11
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All the gel tests provide is an absolutely even, across the board, test medium for projectiles.

I have very little belief that it indicates how a bullet behaves in the real world with all the variables in play.

The FBI came up with very specific criteria for bullet performance. All of the major ammo manufacturers designed bullets to meet those exact criteria.

It’s really hard to beat real world data. The 9BPLE has a lot of real world data. As does the .357 Magnum 125 GR.

Generally, those rounds don’t meet the current criteria for effective rounds. They expand too fast. Or, not enough through denim or they fragment.

Yet, people shot with them have a tendency to tip over and quit trying to kill you.
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Old September 29, 2018, 03:33 PM   #12
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This round has AWESOME "Street Cred." It's still carried by thousands of officers who have access to any ammo they choose.

Penetration is completely adequate. Just because it doesn't cost $1.50 per round doesn't mean it won't get the job done. Remember, it was designed for shooting at bad guys, not army tanks.
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Old October 18, 2018, 10:17 PM   #13
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The results are not much different from the current Speer 115 gr Gold Dot +P+ are they?

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=598051
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Old October 19, 2018, 10:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
The results are not much different from the current Speer 115 gr Gold Dot +P+ are they?
The differences become apparent when the other FBI gel tests are done. Drywall, plywood, auto sheet metal, auto glass. Those are all part of the test, not just cloth covered gel.

HST, Golddot, etc all perform better thru those tougher barriers. Remember the FBI tests are for comparing LE duty ammo. A setting where getting thru those barriers and THEN performing is crucial.

Do you need that level of performance for a civilian CCW type shooting? I dont know...and neither do you, until AFTER your event. I choose to carry Golddot in all my defensive guns.
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Old October 20, 2018, 01:18 PM   #15
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Well, terminal performance considerations aside, I am surprised a 115 +P+ isn't moving a little faster than 1234 FPS.

Cor-Bon sold a 115 +P HP at 1350 FPS and shooting it doesn't void your warranty.
https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-p-11...orbon-20-round

Just saying.
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Old October 20, 2018, 09:23 PM   #16
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Well I guess the faster the better huh? Clearly this round fragments too much and penetration is not considered acceptable by the scientifically backed measure of the FBI’s testing protocols. Why not crank that round up another few hundred FPS so it’ll totally blow up in the first few inches of tissue?
https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...=7865900990521

That's what I carry in my 357 Sig.

Quote:
Then we’ll be sure it won’t reach vital organs and the CNS! Who needs to destroy those when seconds count when we can make a nasty, shallow flesh wound??
What do you base that on? The internet?

Quote:
I guess you know more than the FBI on the subject of wound ballistics... of course you do, this is the internet after all.
Actually, I worked for a federal agency that used that load and has a whole lot of real life shootings to back it up.

Quote:
Have you SEEN some of the people walking around lately? We live in a nation of BIG, FAT people.
Yep, seen em shot too.... They are soft.

Quote:
There are simply much better rounds than this on the market today, I don’t care how fast this load is or how cheap it is. For a few cents more per round you can get the superb and just as proven Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST loads that don’t compromise and who’s projectiles properly hold together for ideal weight retention and penetration through various media.
So, you are saying the 9BPLE load is unproven? Show me empirical data that indicates any other 9mm load superior, and I don't mean gel tests. They are after all simulations of simulations and you can't possibly think that is superior to real life shootings.
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Old October 20, 2018, 10:44 PM   #17
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1250 fps from a 4 inch semi auto barrel? I've been talking about the results one prominent youtube channel has recorded 1170 fps with a 124 grain standard pressure 9mm load in a Ruger LCR.

For a lighter bullet in a longer barrel that has no cylinder gap and is way over pressure to only get 80 fps more is pathetic.

The group with the Nano is good tho.
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Old October 21, 2018, 07:12 AM   #18
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This round clocks at 1285 fps from my 3.6" barrel.
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Old October 21, 2018, 11:53 AM   #19
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1250 fps from a 4 inch semi auto barrel? I've been talking about the results one prominent youtube channel has recorded 1170 fps with a 124 grain standard pressure 9mm load in a Ruger LCR.

For a lighter bullet in a longer barrel that has no cylinder gap and is way over pressure to only get 80 fps more is pathetic.
Physics.......

Because it is higher pressure than standard pressure it is labeled +P or +P+. The higher the pressure the higher the velocity........Until the pressure overcomes the integrity of the chamber.
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Old October 21, 2018, 01:03 PM   #20
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The 115gr +P+ load worked quite well for a long time, but it did earn a reputation of being able to accelerate wear and tear on guns, especially the older aluminum-framed ones. It may not have offered the same potential for deeper penetration, but not everyone jumped on that particular bandwagon back then. (Just like not everyone jumped on the 110gr & 125gr .357 Magnum bandwagon back then, either.)

Back in those days the older cup & core JHP designs needed some increasingly higher velocities to really expand, and the fragmentation that could occur at those higher velocities wasn't necessarily considered a disadvantage, either, as it could really contribute to the wounding effect.

Nowadays we have some more efficient JHP designs available, and many of them don't have to be pushed to the higher pressures in order to achieve faster velocities. They're also being designed to better resist plugging and yet still offer robust expansion, too.

The whole "bonded" thing appeals to some folks who don't want to see loss of jackets when defeating some of the harder intermediate barriers that have been observed in some LE shooting incidents, or fragmentation. I've never been exactly an ardent enthusiast of the bonded JHP's, but some of the newer designs have seemingly been revised so they don't necessarily hinder the potential for robust expansion to the same degree as some earlier designs.

Pick your compromise ... like with everything else when it comes to selecting defensive handgun calibers and ammunition.

I was issued the slightly heavier 127gr SXT +P+ for a while, and it seemed to offer some pretty good results that were supported by anecdotal reports from agencies using it. The first time I tried it, it involved some gifted boxes from a local office of a federal agency who used it for duty and training. After some testing done at our own range, with the help of the Winchester Mobile Gel lab, we adopted it for a while (but never had occasion for it to be used in an OIS).

The W-W LE distributor for our end of the state sells individual boxes (or cases) at the individual officer price, so I accumulated some of it over the course of several years. I still use it for both range quals/practice and carry use, from time to time.

However, in more recent years I was issued one or another 124gr +P load (Golden Sabre & T-Series, at various times), as well as the 147gr HST, and I'm not dissatisfied with any of them. I have no qualms about continuing to buy and use any of them.

It's still more about putting the hits where they need to go, and worrying about intermediate hard barrier penetration just doesn't keep me awake at night.
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Old October 21, 2018, 02:36 PM   #21
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It's still more about putting the hits where they need to go, and worrying about intermediate hard barrier penetration just doesn't keep me awake at night.
Yeah, I think hard barrier penetration is not as important as some think. For police where they are possibly shooting through a car or a door or a window, then it's important to have a bullet that can hold together and penetrate, whilst also not overpenetrating when used specifically against a person.
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Old November 10, 2018, 11:09 PM   #22
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5spins , Thanks for posting your test results... Seems to be a formidable load ... I lean toward standard pressure HST in 9mm ... I carry a Glock 32 on occasion and use Underwood 357sig 125gr Gold dots ...
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Old November 11, 2018, 08:59 AM   #23
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Yeah, it works like most hollow points.

The point being HST and Gold Dots in 124 do much better even at lower pressures...so really no need for it now.
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Old November 14, 2018, 09:54 AM   #24
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Thanks for the test. Hell I'm glad some folks dont like the 9bple.........

.......leaves more for me. Got 3 Glocks & a High Power that loves this stuff.
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Old November 15, 2018, 11:31 AM   #25
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I shot a rabbit with that stuff when I was younger, a broadside shot.

It expanded pretty rapidly. The rabbit was mostly inedible.

Regards,
Josh
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