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March 14, 2014, 02:36 PM | #1 |
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How not to handle a traffic stop.
Anyone else see this?
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/1213...s-vietnam-vet/ Elderly Vietnam Vet stopped at night or expired tags, and got out of the vehicle and then reached back in for a long object. Deputy yelled instructions and immediately fired, hitting him 1 time in 6 shots. What did the vet have? He had a cane, which the deputy mistook for a long gun. Lesson: when the cops stop you, adrenaline is high. Sit in your vehicle, keep your hands visible, and don't make any sudden or dangerous movements. DO NOT get out, do not go reaching for objects in the glove box or under the seat, and for heavens sake don't grab something that looks like a handgun or shotgun! |
March 14, 2014, 03:02 PM | #2 |
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Yeah, here in Charlotte we have heard lots about it. Although nothing more than what's in the video. The Sheriff sounds like he's standing behind his deputy. Sheriff Bryant is quoted as saying "I would have had to take the same action he did".
I feel for the officer but like his brother told him, you did what you had to. |
March 14, 2014, 04:26 PM | #3 |
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Generally I think today's cops are often too trigger-happy, but it does look like the old gent pulled a long gun and pointed it right at the cop.
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March 14, 2014, 04:31 PM | #4 |
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And for God's sake don't get out of the damn vehicle.
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March 14, 2014, 05:11 PM | #5 | |
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Is it a good enough reason to for the police to shoot someone because they think they have a firearm.
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Last edited by manta49; March 14, 2014 at 05:41 PM. |
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March 14, 2014, 07:13 PM | #6 | |
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I would say someone had a bit too much coffee that night.
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I would also say that the expectation for anyone to be armed in the UK is nil since the ownership of anything resembling a firearm is almost unheard of these days.
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March 14, 2014, 07:27 PM | #7 |
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It's easy to second guess why he got out of car, but it is a bad idea as is not keeping hands visible. Thank goodness deputy was a bad shot.
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March 14, 2014, 07:49 PM | #8 | ||
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Last edited by manta49; March 14, 2014 at 07:59 PM. |
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March 14, 2014, 09:33 PM | #9 |
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Extremely unfortunate incident. I watched the video and saw the glint of light along the shaft of the cane. For the briefest of moments it looked liike it could be the barrel of a long gun. Kind of a tough call. I feel sorry for the officer, and I am very glad for the old gent it was not more serious.
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March 14, 2014, 10:02 PM | #10 |
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It's apparently now OK for any police officer who gets a bit scared to rip off several (non-aimed) rounds at a citizen, with only the merest suspicion of the presence of a weapon required for justification.
Watch it again-the 'weapon' never so much as gets raised near a firing position. And while we live in a world with rifles, we also live in a world with deaf old men who need canes to walk, and who haven't been through the 'what to do to keep a hyper-paranoid cop from shooting you at a traffic stop' training we must all have gone through. I would love to see the 'shoot/don't shoot' scores this ace posted in the academy; I'm guessing the department had to raise its ammo budget for the number of rounds he fired. Larry
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March 14, 2014, 11:16 PM | #11 |
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You point to one incident and paint them all with the same brush?
Not one incident. Go to youtube and search for videos of cops shooting unarmed citizens. Dogs get shot all the time just for barking and "lunging" at cops. Last month a boy in Georgia was shot dead while holding a Wii remote. In California this past October a boy was shot dead holding an airsoft gun. In January of this year, Arizona cops shot and killed an unarmed man with his hands in the air: http://www.sott.net/article/272730-A...nds-in-the-air The police in this country are completely out of control. |
March 14, 2014, 11:19 PM | #12 |
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I feel bad for the vet and the cop both, but feelings can't be allowed to cloud the issue.
The basis of law is simply that if an action is unlawful donning a uniform and/or badge is NOT an excuse. If a shooter shot a man on the street who had only a cane and that shooter was not a cop what do you think the county prosecutor would do? Sad as it is, that’s exactly what the prosecutor should do. Would you think the words "I was afraid" would hold water? Fear and the control of fear is the job. Having been a cop myself I know about these things, and I feel a deep sorrow for the cop, but if this kind of thing is allowed it's an open door for bad cops to do the same thing for evil reasons. |
March 14, 2014, 11:28 PM | #13 | |||
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March 14, 2014, 11:47 PM | #14 | |
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Ok, so of the hundreds of thousands of cops in this country you cite 3 shootings, one of which was at the very least marginal. So 2-3 bad shoots in 2 years, I do not call that out of control by any stretch of the imagination. Walk a mile in my shoes.
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March 15, 2014, 12:16 AM | #16 |
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Well said Nanuk. There seem to be a lot of those who might have never walked in those boots, but are quick to condemn. In a country of 330 million, a couple of shootings, good, bad or marginal is not what I would consider constituting "out of control" police. On the contrary I would say that indicates a lot of control and restraint on the part of police. When humans are involved, there are bound to be mistakes.
I would guess it is safe to say nobody is perfect. Nobody. It was an unfortunate encounter for all involved. |
March 15, 2014, 03:00 AM | #17 |
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Bodycams; LE....
The metro PD in my area is finally going to have patrol officers wearing new "body-cam" DV systems.
The out-going police chief told the local media it was part of a "pilot program". I think the mayor & city council were fed up with the dozens and dozens of civil lawsuits re: misconduct, fraud, excessive force, etc. If I were a state trooper or sworn officer Id welcome a DV camera system. I'd be 100% in my ability & the audio/video would document what Id see & face everyday on the job. Some cops do abuse their authority or use excessive force. Their - attitudes & problems reflect directly on the agency. The PDs are then mandated to use DV systems & dashboard cameras to avoid labor disputes/discrimination complaints etc. Clyde |
March 15, 2014, 06:43 AM | #18 |
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Reference the unarmed Police in Northern Ireland? Are not the RUC Armed?
Or whatever they are called now? The firearms Instructor is on the hook for this one! |
March 15, 2014, 07:13 AM | #19 |
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Signal your intention to pull over as soon as you see the flashing lights.
Pull over as far as you can at a safe location. Turn on the interior lights if it is dark out. Roll down the drivers window or all windows if they are heavily tinted. Turn off the vehicle. Keep your hands visible preferably on the wheel and wait for the officer. These are simple things that can be done to minimize the risk of getting shot at a traffic stop because the officer can clearly see into the vehicle. The minute somebody steps out of a vehicle at a traffic stop the officer has to try and figure out in fractions of a second what the intentions of the driver are. Not obeying commands is the second thing the get did wrong. Reaching for an object is the 3rd thing the get did wrong. It was not a single error on the part of the vet that put in motion the shooting but a series of events. In the deputy's mind the next thing to come was a shotgun blast. Although I feel very bad for the vet I do feel that the officer believed his life was in imminent danger which is why he fired. Isn't rule #1 to go home at the end of your shift? |
March 15, 2014, 07:22 AM | #20 | |
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It seems to be, nowadays. It used to be 'serve and protect.' If the rules are that the police can preemptively shoot anyone they simply believe might be about to become a threat, I suppose this was justifiable. If the cop were not a cop, but a citizen, would the 'thin blue line' be so quick to defend him? What I saw was a poorly trained, frightened cop who made an enormous mistake; no substantive verbal commands, no use of preclusion, poor 'weapon' recognition and, eventually, poor shooting skills (thankfully.) Is it really necessary for other police to defend this mistake? Has the 'professional brotherhood' remained that strong, that police can't admit another cop did something wrong? It seems so-anyone who doesn't consider this a mistake obviously has a secondary agenda, IMHO. Larry
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March 15, 2014, 07:48 AM | #21 | ||
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March 15, 2014, 08:26 AM | #22 |
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There is a video from the dashcam of a police officer who was shot dead by an older man (60ish) who got out of his car before the officer ever got a chance to get out of his car.
That driver got right out with a AR-15 and killed the officer right through his front car windshield. The driver was later apprehended and the reasons for his killing the officer are too stupid to write here. Police officers today don't know what they are going to come up against or when the Grim Reaper has a bad present waiting for them to kill them. In a combat situation you only have a scant few seconds until you are dead. Knowing this, as citizens, we should do our part by showing the officers the due respect they deserve by simply waiting IN THE CAR until they tell us why we were pulled over and treating them like people because they are just like you and me, people. We really do need to have a tv campaign that tells the public the right way to deal with a traffic stop. -Pull over as soon as it is safe. -Stay in your car, hands on your steering wheel. -When the officer comes to your car and asks you too,roll down your window. -Actually listen to what the officer has to say. -Do what he says. -Either go on your way warned or sign the ticket. And both of you have a nice day. It ain't rocket science. And if you were doing thirty over the speed limit or driving drunk, expect to get a ticket and likely arrested. Just be man enough to stop and not make it all a thousand times worse by running or running your mouth. JUST PULL OVER, IT'S WAY CHEAPER THEN RUNNING. |
March 15, 2014, 08:44 AM | #23 |
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Back in the older generations day, they got out of their vehicle in this area,NC,SC... My father, 74, was always taught to step out when pulled over. Just something that changed with the times. I am not going to get into what the man and the officer done. It is only an opinion. But there are no laws that state to remain in your vehicle. On the police officers behalf, it looked like a firearm for between 1-2 seconds.. Tough call.
I know that all around our nation police are heard about "mistakenly shooting a boy who answered his door with a Wii controller" and other cases. Just glad the man is ok..
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March 15, 2014, 08:53 AM | #24 | |
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Quote:
What ever happened to positive ID of your target? When I was in a spec ops unit in the army, they would court martial you for shooting a friendly. I'm not saying he needs to serve time but I think more than 2 weeks paid leave while the situation is investigated is not sufficient. Last edited by Ruger480; March 15, 2014 at 11:06 AM. |
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March 15, 2014, 09:12 AM | #25 |
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If you think incidents like this old man getting killed while reaching for his cane are isolated, you're living in a bubble. While I don't think it's fair to say, "cops in this country are out of control", I do think it's well within accurate to say that the entirety of professional law enforcement in this country needs an immediate and complete overhaul on it's use of deadly force standards and de-escalation training.
The number of websites dedicated to exposing police brutality will come as a surprise to some... a lot of you are either completely in the dark about the sheer amount of it, or simply don't want to hear it. http://www.copblock.org/ http://www.policebrutality.info/ http://www.policemisconduct.net/ http://policecrimes.com/ ...google will show you a dozens if not a few hundred more. In a few years, body-cams will be standard field equipment for all police officers. I've been following the trend closely, and it's about damn time. You can google "rialto police cameras"... this city in Cali is the poster-place for the effectiveness of mandatory body-cams on all officers: In the first year after the cameras were introduced here in February 2012, the number of complaints filed against officers fell by 88 percent compared with the previous 12 months. Use of force by officers fell by almost 60 percent over the same period. I'd venture a guess that the only thing currently standing in the way of immediate implementation across the country are the police unions... but that will change. |
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