Help with loads

kenfa03 · February 10, 2009, 06:59 PM

Can someone help me with load data? I have Varget and IMR4064 powders.
270-140 gr. HPBT-Sierra 1835
7mm08-140 gr Spitzer BT-Sierra 1905
2506-gr Spitzer-Sierra 1640
I'll keep looking online but neither of my books have these bullets in them.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · February 10, 2009, 07:31 PM

hodgdon's website should have load info. Use the info for "jacketed bullets" They proabably won't have a load for that "exact" bullet, that is why they encompass them by saying "jacketed bullets." good luck

kenfa03 · February 10, 2009, 07:45 PM

Thats where I went first but they did not have exact bullet and I wasn't sure how to proceed. I keep reading not to deviate from tested data. Just getting started and looks like I need a lot of manuals.

dlb435 · February 10, 2009, 08:08 PM

No, you need a chronogragh. Get the closest data you can find and start with a 10% low charge. Work up from there until you get it right. Then you can tweek for your rifle.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · February 10, 2009, 08:16 PM

no, a chronograph only tells you velocity. You CAN'T equate velocity with PRESSURE!!!! Pressure is what blows up your firearm. Dont get me wrong, chronos are nice...but they don't tell you pressure. But, it is wise to start 10% below a given starting load and work up....looking out for signs of excessive pressure (sticky bolt lift, flattened primers, etc).

dlb435 · February 10, 2009, 08:58 PM

He has the right powders so over pressure should not be a problem. Over all lenth also shouldn't be much of a problem. Just use the closest data you can find. Starting 10% low is the safety margin. Don't load for max velocity, just a good average for that bullet weight.
Winchester 270
Hodgdon shows 43.7 grains of Varget (max load) with a 140 grain bullet. LOA should be about 2.1", but I'd start a little longer. See if it feeds properly from the magazine. A good start point would be 38 grains. The velocity you're looking for is 2772. (max, this is the poorest performing powder for that bullet)
With the 4064 the max load is 46.1 grains with a velocity of 2828.
Velocity for 140 grain bullets range from 2772 to 2925 fps. If you set your loads to get 2700 fps then you should be very safe.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · February 10, 2009, 09:17 PM

Once again...velocity doesn't equate with pressure. We do not know the test barrel used for the data collection. Shorter barrels generally yield slower velocities. If you have a really short barrel, like say on a handgun that fires rifle rounds, you could get in trouble with PRESSURE by trying to push it to load manual velocities. Also, the highest velocity load is not always the best performer. Finding a load that "fits" the way your barrel resonates is key. If you want to know more about this, I can explain....but it is quite lengthy. I only use my chrono to 1.) check consistency of loads when various loading techniques are tested and 2.) working up ballistic cards for long-range shooting.

kenfa03 · February 10, 2009, 09:58 PM

Haven't been loading long enough to be comfortable with straying from published data. I guess I need a book for each bullet and powder I buy?

dlb435 · February 10, 2009, 10:21 PM

You're right, I didn't ask how long his barrel was or what rifle he was using. The 270 is a hunting round so I just figured it was a full length rifle. If he's got a carbine, then I'm way out of line. I always chrono with factory rounds to get a good idea of what comercial rounds do. I've never had any trouble with over pressure rounds because I never push to get the max load possible. I figure if it gets the job done, it's good enough. Once I've got a good load I stick with it. I've used the same load and bullet for my 223 rounds for ten years. It my not be the best load but it works, is acruate and causes no trouble.
The 270 is about average for CPU, so I don't see were he should run into any trouble. Case size is fixed and bullet length for the 140 grain bullet vary only slightly. Get some factory loads and test them. Let's say they clock in at 2700 fps + or - 100 fps in his gun. If he uses the right powder and starts low I don't see where the problem is. While a chrono does not tell you CPU, it does give you a very good idea of how your load campares with the data. Let's say he loads 40 grains of 4064 and gets 2800 fps. This is a clear indication that something is very wrong. However, if 40 grains yields 2400 fps then this is a good indication that he is on the right track and can edge up a little.
I'm sure you have reloaded long enough to know that the books are good guide lines but not the whole story. I tend to err on the side of caution and don't see the need of pushing a round to the limit. This is someone looking for practical advice on how to come up with a good load.
Start low
Chrono your loads (a CPU test would be better but is beyond most of our budgets)
keep notes
Stop when you have a good load (tested at the range)
Do not exceed the max charges listed
Be patient, this is not a hobby for the easily distracted.

dlb435 · February 10, 2009, 10:42 PM

You can download reloading data from all the major powder makers. Many of the bullet makers also have data on line. Collect several to compare load data. I should also note that load data changes over time. Old reloading books are not a reliable source for reloading data. I'm not sure if this is because the powder formula has changed or if testing has shown the old data to be wrong. Both of the powders you are using are in the Hodgdon reloading manual available free on line.
Reloading manuals cover a lot more than just load data. They have valuable info on case prep, bullet choice, trouble shooting and other reloading issues. I've got several books and many load data files. Before I start a new load, I'll check every source I can find. Pick a low starting point and work up from there. I also like to check with other people I know who might have more knowledge than I do about a specific load. You might get lucky and find someone loading your rounds and bullets.

PCJim · February 10, 2009, 10:57 PM

Just to clarify something that was stated in a prior post: If only a single powder charge is provided, that is most likely the maximum charge for that powder/bullet weight. It is probably identified as such in the fine print. In such cases, your start load should be 10% less than this maximum charge.

If, on the other hand, a minimum and maximum charge is provided, start at the minimum charge. Do NOT reduce any stated minimum charge by 10%. With some powders you could be asking for trouble.

kenfa03 · February 11, 2009, 04:54 AM

I looked at Hodgdon site and could not find the exact bullet/powder combos that I'm lookin for.

crowbeaner · February 12, 2009, 10:22 PM

In the 270, use H4831 or H4350.
In the 7mm/08 use WW760 or H414, IMR 4895 and 4064. H380 is great stuff.
In the 25/06, use RL22 and IMR 7828.

February 10, 2009, 06:59 PM	#1
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	Help with loads Can someone help me with load data? I have Varget and IMR4064 powders. 270-140 gr. HPBT-Sierra 1835 7mm08-140 gr Spitzer BT-Sierra 1905 2506-gr Spitzer-Sierra 1640 I'll keep looking online but neither of my books have these bullets in them.

February 10, 2009, 07:31 PM	#2
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	hodgdon's website should have load info. Use the info for "jacketed bullets" They proabably won't have a load for that "exact" bullet, that is why they encompass them by saying "jacketed bullets." good luck __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

February 10, 2009, 08:16 PM	#5
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	no, a chronograph only tells you velocity. You CAN'T equate velocity with PRESSURE!!!! Pressure is what blows up your firearm. Dont get me wrong, chronos are nice...but they don't tell you pressure. But, it is wise to start 10% below a given starting load and work up....looking out for signs of excessive pressure (sticky bolt lift, flattened primers, etc). __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

February 10, 2009, 09:17 PM	#7
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	Once again...velocity doesn't equate with pressure. We do not know the test barrel used for the data collection. Shorter barrels generally yield slower velocities. If you have a really short barrel, like say on a handgun that fires rifle rounds, you could get in trouble with PRESSURE by trying to push it to load manual velocities. Also, the highest velocity load is not always the best performer. Finding a load that "fits" the way your barrel resonates is key. If you want to know more about this, I can explain....but it is quite lengthy. I only use my chrono to 1.) check consistency of loads when various loading techniques are tested and 2.) working up ballistic cards for long-range shooting. __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

February 12, 2009, 10:22 PM	#13
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	In the 270, use H4831 or H4350. In the 7mm/08 use WW760 or H414, IMR 4895 and 4064. H380 is great stuff. In the 25/06, use RL22 and IMR 7828. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

February 10, 2009, 07:45 PM	#3
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	Thats where I went first but they did not have exact bullet and I wasn't sure how to proceed. I keep reading not to deviate from tested data. Just getting started and looks like I need a lot of manuals.

February 10, 2009, 08:08 PM	#4
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	No, you need a chronogragh. Get the closest data you can find and start with a 10% low charge. Work up from there until you get it right. Then you can tweek for your rifle.

February 10, 2009, 08:58 PM	#6
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	He has the right powders so over pressure should not be a problem. Over all lenth also shouldn't be much of a problem. Just use the closest data you can find. Starting 10% low is the safety margin. Don't load for max velocity, just a good average for that bullet weight. Winchester 270 Hodgdon shows 43.7 grains of Varget (max load) with a 140 grain bullet. LOA should be about 2.1", but I'd start a little longer. See if it feeds properly from the magazine. A good start point would be 38 grains. The velocity you're looking for is 2772. (max, this is the poorest performing powder for that bullet) With the 4064 the max load is 46.1 grains with a velocity of 2828. Velocity for 140 grain bullets range from 2772 to 2925 fps. If you set your loads to get 2700 fps then you should be very safe.

February 10, 2009, 09:58 PM	#8
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	Haven't been loading long enough to be comfortable with straying from published data. I guess I need a book for each bullet and powder I buy?

February 10, 2009, 10:21 PM	#9
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	You're right, I didn't ask how long his barrel was or what rifle he was using. The 270 is a hunting round so I just figured it was a full length rifle. If he's got a carbine, then I'm way out of line. I always chrono with factory rounds to get a good idea of what comercial rounds do. I've never had any trouble with over pressure rounds because I never push to get the max load possible. I figure if it gets the job done, it's good enough. Once I've got a good load I stick with it. I've used the same load and bullet for my 223 rounds for ten years. It my not be the best load but it works, is acruate and causes no trouble. The 270 is about average for CPU, so I don't see were he should run into any trouble. Case size is fixed and bullet length for the 140 grain bullet vary only slightly. Get some factory loads and test them. Let's say they clock in at 2700 fps + or - 100 fps in his gun. If he uses the right powder and starts low I don't see where the problem is. While a chrono does not tell you CPU, it does give you a very good idea of how your load campares with the data. Let's say he loads 40 grains of 4064 and gets 2800 fps. This is a clear indication that something is very wrong. However, if 40 grains yields 2400 fps then this is a good indication that he is on the right track and can edge up a little. I'm sure you have reloaded long enough to know that the books are good guide lines but not the whole story. I tend to err on the side of caution and don't see the need of pushing a round to the limit. This is someone looking for practical advice on how to come up with a good load. Start low Chrono your loads (a CPU test would be better but is beyond most of our budgets) keep notes Stop when you have a good load (tested at the range) Do not exceed the max charges listed Be patient, this is not a hobby for the easily distracted.

February 10, 2009, 10:42 PM	#10
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	You can download reloading data from all the major powder makers. Many of the bullet makers also have data on line. Collect several to compare load data. I should also note that load data changes over time. Old reloading books are not a reliable source for reloading data. I'm not sure if this is because the powder formula has changed or if testing has shown the old data to be wrong. Both of the powders you are using are in the Hodgdon reloading manual available free on line. Reloading manuals cover a lot more than just load data. They have valuable info on case prep, bullet choice, trouble shooting and other reloading issues. I've got several books and many load data files. Before I start a new load, I'll check every source I can find. Pick a low starting point and work up from there. I also like to check with other people I know who might have more knowledge than I do about a specific load. You might get lucky and find someone loading your rounds and bullets.

February 10, 2009, 10:57 PM	#11
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Just to clarify something that was stated in a prior post: If only a single powder charge is provided, that is most likely the maximum charge for that powder/bullet weight. It is probably identified as such in the fine print. In such cases, your start load should be 10% less than this maximum charge. If, on the other hand, a minimum and maximum charge is provided, start at the minimum charge. Do NOT reduce any stated minimum charge by 10%. With some powders you could be asking for trouble.

February 11, 2009, 04:54 AM	#12
kenfa03 Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Posts: 71	I looked at Hodgdon site and could not find the exact bullet/powder combos that I'm lookin for.